Player Discussion Lias Andersson: Part III

Amazing Kreiderman

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
44,857
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yes, because everybody knows you can never trust a QMJHL scouts, those backstabbers.

Kravtsov stayed a year in Russia then came here and immediately ran back to Russia (sure is a good sign for Hartford development program, then finally returned and struggled to produce.

Chytil was in Czech Republic which is not considered a great developmental league in recent years so they decided to bring him in hear along with Lias. He spent a total of 55 games in AHL.

Lias ran back to Sweden in his 1st season, and in the 3rd season he quit the team and ran back to Sweden.

Yeah great program we have over there.

- Lias did not "run back to Sweden in his 1st season". He was loaned to a team in Sweden, and after the WJC in Buffalo, the Rangers decided to keep him in NA
- The Rangers have not picked a player from the QMJHL in the first round since 1977. That's not something recent

I am not arguing that Hartford is a program with some issues, but to assume the Rangers draft college and European players because they can let them develop overthere rather than in Hartford, makes 0 sense when 5 of their last 6 first round picks were brought over in the first 2 years, completely negating the narrative you're trying to push here.
 

Roo Returns

Skjeikspeare No More
Mar 4, 2010
9,272
4,806
Westchester, NY
You all can call me out in the Relationship Thread for being mopey but I'm going to ask once and for all can we stop beating the same topics to death here on Clark, drafting, Hartford, etc.?

Here are some facts:

1. Hartford was a dumpster fire before last season. JD is big on fixing it. It has improved already based on the record. They need to draft more forwards. Yes, Kravstov was there in two stints last season but when your top draft pick forwards are a veteran in Boo Nieves, Ty Ronning, and Gabriel Fontaine, something is not right. (A ripple effect of the 2013-2016 no first rounders).

2. Most draft picks in the NHL take (to paraphrase wrestler Booker T) Three Years, Three Years, Three Years to reach the show. That's on par with being 21-22 when many NBA and NFL players make their debut. I mention this once a week but ever since the 2012-13 season, there's been this warped philosophy to rush these players because of the cap. It's dumb. How different to Del Zotto and Grachev turn out if they aren't rushed? Imagine 18-year-old Derek Stepan in the NHL.

3. I see Kravstov stylistically like a TJ Oshie and guess what? Oshie took how many years after draft to reach the NHL? Three Years, Three Years, Three Years. He's a very skinny offensive player, he needs to grow. Just because he's tall doesn't mean he's man strong.

4. Just because a player is Russian doesn't mean they're going to automatically understand offense right away. I think there's some Kravstov=Bure, Kovalev, Kuznetsov, Kucherov going on here.

5. Gordie Clark was not "bad at drafting" Does he get an "A"? Nope. But he doesn't get an 'F" either. Overall he found many players who were useful for three very deep runs. He made two terrible mistakes in 2006 and 2010 and had bad luck in 2007. No one would care or talk about any of these if they win a Cup in 2012, 2014, or 2015.

6. Is it time to move on from Clark? In a way they have. I'd say Bobrov and the scouts JD brings in are getting more say while Clark will have less. I've said it before, but if both Lias and Kravstov flame out, I expect to see Clark "retire." In a way the 2019 draft was a "reboot" in some ways (hopefully not the JJ Abrams kind lol). It's not can Kakko and Robertson become NHLers, but how good will they be? That's the question. The scouting is changing. My old buddy who I used to watch for the Caps while living in DC Steve Konawalchuk is on payroll nowadays.

7. Lias was probably a crappy pick but outside of that top 5/6 and Chytil, no one else had made much of an impact yet.

8. Back to point 5 and 6, the biggest problem I've had with Clark besides drafting too many DMen is the psychological evaluation of some of these players. I'm not going to take one of my many cheap shots at NY which I know I often do here (I think it's an outdated city and lifestyle but lets be real and everyone can call me out if I actually got a girl I really like to like me back as much I'd probably go easier on it lololol)...NY is a tough place to live especially for these farm boys from Canada and small town European players. This is supposedly the greatest city in the world with the smartest people and most resources so spend money on analytics and hire psychological professionals to come up with a better evaluation and better $^#^^ questions before drafting these kids. No more head cases. No more Ethan Wereks or immature Michael Del Zottos or big head Evgeny Grachevs or butt heads like JT Miller or sociopaths like Robin Kovacs or guys who are going to walk out in the middle of the season.
 

Kupo

MAFIA, MOUNT UP!
Sponsor
Oct 31, 2017
11,388
24,017
Stamford CT
You all can call me out in the Relationship Thread for being mopey but I'm going to ask once and for all can we stop beating the same topics to death here on Clark, drafting, Hartford, etc.?

Here are some facts:

1. Hartford was a dumpster fire before last season. JD is big on fixing it. It has improved already based on the record. They need to draft more forwards. Yes, Kravstov was there in two stints last season but when your top draft pick forwards are a veteran in Boo Nieves, Ty Ronning, and Gabriel Fontaine, something is not right. (A ripple effect of the 2013-2016 no first rounders).

2. Most draft picks in the NHL take (to paraphrase wrestler Booker T) Three Years, Three Years, Three Years to reach the show. That's on par with being 21-22 when many NBA and NFL players make their debut. I mention this once a week but ever since the 2012-13 season, there's been this warped philosophy to rush these players because of the cap. It's dumb. How different to Del Zotto and Grachev turn out if they aren't rushed? Imagine 18-year-old Derek Stepan in the NHL.

3. I see Kravstov stylistically like a TJ Oshie and guess what? Oshie took how many years after draft to reach the NHL? Three Years, Three Years, Three Years. He's a very skinny offensive player, he needs to grow. Just because he's tall doesn't mean he's man strong.

4. Just because a player is Russian doesn't mean they're going to automatically understand offense right away. I think there's some Kravstov=Bure, Kovalev, Kuznetsov, Kucherov going on here.

5. Gordie Clark was not "bad at drafting" Does he get an "A"? Nope. But he doesn't get an 'F" either. Overall he found many players who were useful for three very deep runs. He made two terrible mistakes in 2006 and 2010 and had bad luck in 2007. No one would care or talk about any of these if they win a Cup in 2012, 2014, or 2015.

6. Is it time to move on from Clark? In a way they have. I'd say Bobrov and the scouts JD brings in are getting more say while Clark will have less. I've said it before, but if both Lias and Kravstov flame out, I expect to see Clark "retire." In a way the 2019 draft was a "reboot" in some ways (hopefully not the JJ Abrams kind lol). It's not can Kakko and Robertson become NHLers, but how good will they be? That's the question. The scouting is changing. My old buddy who I used to watch for the Caps while living in DC Steve Konawalchuk is on payroll nowadays.

7. Lias was probably a crappy pick but outside of that top 5/6 and Chytil, no one else had made much of an impact yet.

8. Back to point 5 and 6, the biggest problem I've had with Clark besides drafting too many DMen is the psychological evaluation of some of these players. I'm not going to take one of my many cheap shots at NY which I know I often do here (I think it's an outdated city and lifestyle but lets be real and everyone can call me out if I actually got a girl I really like to like me back as much I'd probably go easier on it lololol)...NY is a tough place to live especially for these farm boys from Canada and small town European players. This is supposedly the greatest city in the world with the smartest people and most resources so spend money on analytics and hire psychological professionals to come up with a better evaluation and better $^#^^ questions before drafting these kids. No more head cases. No more Ethan Wereks or immature Michael Del Zottos or big head Evgeny Grachevs or butt heads like JT Miller or sociopaths like Robin Kovacs or guys who are going to walk out in the middle of the season.
cloud.jpg


In all seriousness, a lot of good stuff here.
 

Riche16

McCready guitar god
Aug 13, 2008
12,831
8,014
The Dreaded Middle
Except that Clark and friends routinely beat the character and leadership drum and yet we have Lias, Kravtsov (hopefully doing a 180 @ this point) and McIlrathbwing anything but character players.

My point is that if they’re trying to evaluate these guys on their skill AND their mental fortitude, leadership and or intangibles... they’re failing at nearly a 100% rate.

Topic has been Beaten to death but in this thread it has validity... just as it did in the countless McIlrath ones
 

GAGLine

Registered User
Sep 17, 2007
23,398
19,241
Except that Clark and friends routinely beat the character and leadership drum and yet we have Lias, Kravtsov (hopefully doing a 180 @ this point) and McIlrathbwing anything but character players.

Did I miss something with McIlrath? What did he do that would cause you to question his character?
 

GAGLine

Registered User
Sep 17, 2007
23,398
19,241
I thought he had serious confidence issues and work ethic criticisms after the knee healed... but he never really looked like an NHL D to me.

If I am mistaken my bad.

I never heard any of that. I wouldn't be surprised if he had confidence issues...every player does at various points in their career, regardless of their age...but I never heard anyone question his work ethic. He just wasn't that good, unfortunately.
 

Riche16

McCready guitar god
Aug 13, 2008
12,831
8,014
The Dreaded Middle
I never heard any of that. I wouldn't be surprised if he had confidence issues...every player does at various points in their career, regardless of their age...but I never heard anyone question his work ethic. He just wasn't that good, unfortunately.
Right. And a project.

Clark as his team were vocal about his intangibles after the draft. I hated the pick from day 1 and couldn't fathom leaving more skilled players there (esp Tara) for a guy who they chose because they liked his attitude etc.

It's why I am down overall on Clark even with the lack of 1st and 2nd rounders.

Again, I don't wanna rehash all this... it's been beaten to death in many, many threads.
 

Crease

Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
Jul 12, 2004
24,064
25,424
I'm surprised anyone is defending Clark. He's been here since 2003 and the most successful forward picks are basically Stepan, Kreider, Callahan, and Dubinsky. Maybe add Miller, Buchnevich, Duclair, and Cherepanov if you're feeling generous. That's still a joke given the amount of talent across the league over that time.
 
Last edited:

ColonialsHockey10

Registered User
Jul 22, 2007
15,155
4,659
I'm surprised anyone is defending Clark. He's been here since 2003 and the most successful forward picks are basically Stepan, Kreider, Callahan, and Dubinsky. Maybe add Miller, Buchnevich, Duclair, and Cherepanov if you're feeling generous. That's still a joke given the amount of talent across the league over that time.

“The draft is a crapshoot”
“We didn’t have a first round pick for a few years”
“The players chosen after ours aren’t any better”
“Barbara Underhill”
Etc, etc
 
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Kakko Schmakko

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Feb 24, 2018
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I'm surprised anyone is defending Clark. He's been here since 2003 and the most successful forward picks are basically Stepan, Kreider, Callahan, and Dubinsky. Maybe add Miller, Buchnevich, Duclair, and Cherepanov if you're feeling generous. That's still a joke given the amount of talent across the league over that time.

Clark was here when we picked Callahan and Dubinsky? I thought it was Don Maloney?
 

Shesterkybomb

Registered User
Dec 30, 2016
15,752
16,600
I'm surprised anyone is defending Clark. He's been here since 2003 and the most successful forward picks are basically Stepan, Kreider, Callahan, and Dubinsky. Maybe add Miller, Buchnevich, Duclair, and Cherepanov if you're feeling generous. That's still a joke given the amount of talent across the league over that time.

Not defending him but Sather went years trading our top 60 picks, which hurt us two fold because Hartford sucked as a result as well and was a poor place to develop players. You would have to know how much input Sather had with those remaining picks to know if Clark is the problem or not. I'd guess Sather had a lot to do with the Mcilrath pick, but I don't know that.
 
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Slaydagnar

Registered User
Oct 18, 2015
100
104
Vero Beach, FL
You all can call me out in the Relationship Thread for being mopey but I'm going to ask once and for all can we stop beating the same topics to death here on Clark, drafting, Hartford, etc.?

Here are some facts:

1. Hartford was a dumpster fire before last season. JD is big on fixing it. It has improved already based on the record. They need to draft more forwards. Yes, Kravstov was there in two stints last season but when your top draft pick forwards are a veteran in Boo Nieves, Ty Ronning, and Gabriel Fontaine, something is not right. (A ripple effect of the 2013-2016 no first rounders).

2. Most draft picks in the NHL take (to paraphrase wrestler Booker T) Three Years, Three Years, Three Years to reach the show. That's on par with being 21-22 when many NBA and NFL players make their debut. I mention this once a week but ever since the 2012-13 season, there's been this warped philosophy to rush these players because of the cap. It's dumb. How different to Del Zotto and Grachev turn out if they aren't rushed? Imagine 18-year-old Derek Stepan in the NHL.

3. I see Kravstov stylistically like a TJ Oshie and guess what? Oshie took how many years after draft to reach the NHL? Three Years, Three Years, Three Years. He's a very skinny offensive player, he needs to grow. Just because he's tall doesn't mean he's man strong.

4. Just because a player is Russian doesn't mean they're going to automatically understand offense right away. I think there's some Kravstov=Bure, Kovalev, Kuznetsov, Kucherov going on here.

5. Gordie Clark was not "bad at drafting" Does he get an "A"? Nope. But he doesn't get an 'F" either. Overall he found many players who were useful for three very deep runs. He made two terrible mistakes in 2006 and 2010 and had bad luck in 2007. No one would care or talk about any of these if they win a Cup in 2012, 2014, or 2015.

6. Is it time to move on from Clark? In a way they have. I'd say Bobrov and the scouts JD brings in are getting more say while Clark will have less. I've said it before, but if both Lias and Kravstov flame out, I expect to see Clark "retire." In a way the 2019 draft was a "reboot" in some ways (hopefully not the JJ Abrams kind lol). It's not can Kakko and Robertson become NHLers, but how good will they be? That's the question. The scouting is changing. My old buddy who I used to watch for the Caps while living in DC Steve Konawalchuk is on payroll nowadays.

7. Lias was probably a crappy pick but outside of that top 5/6 and Chytil, no one else had made much of an impact yet.

8. Back to point 5 and 6, the biggest problem I've had with Clark besides drafting too many DMen is the psychological evaluation of some of these players. I'm not going to take one of my many cheap shots at NY which I know I often do here (I think it's an outdated city and lifestyle but lets be real and everyone can call me out if I actually got a girl I really like to like me back as much I'd probably go easier on it lololol)...NY is a tough place to live especially for these farm boys from Canada and small town European players. This is supposedly the greatest city in the world with the smartest people and most resources so spend money on analytics and hire psychological professionals to come up with a better evaluation and better $^#^^ questions before drafting these kids. No more head cases. No more Ethan Wereks or immature Michael Del Zottos or big head Evgeny Grachevs or butt heads like JT Miller or sociopaths like Robin Kovacs or guys who are going to walk out in the middle of the season.

TJ Oshie comp to Krastov where do you come up with this crap. They are nothing alike. Kravstov is Euro-soft with middling character TJ is the perfect playoff player hard edged and skilled sweats out more character in a day then Kravstov will his whole career.
Rangers scouting has been garbage for decades. Start scouting more North Americans that can play in the playoff winning style finesse and toughness and character. The experiment has failed.
Use the Bruins scouting as an example.
Why Gorton has allowed Euro-centric scouting is a failure of his tenure.
 

Amazing Kreiderman

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
44,857
40,365
TJ Oshie comp to Krastov where do you come up with this crap. They are nothing alike. Kravstov is Euro-soft with middling character TJ is the perfect playoff player hard edged and skilled sweats out more character in a day then Kravstov will his whole career.
Rangers scouting has been garbage for decades. Start scouting more North Americans that can play in the playoff winning style finesse and toughness and character. The experiment has failed.
Use the Bruins scouting as an example.
Why Gorton has allowed Euro-centric scouting is a failure of his tenure.

Okay, grandpa. This isn't 1988. Our 3 best players are European :laugh: You wait 5 years to finally submit your first post, and this is it?
 

Irishguy42

Mr. Preachy
Sep 11, 2015
26,820
19,074
NJ
TJ Oshie comp to Krastov where do you come up with this crap. They are nothing alike. Kravstov is Euro-soft with middling character TJ is the perfect playoff player hard edged and skilled sweats out more character in a day then Kravstov will his whole career.
Rangers scouting has been garbage for decades. Start scouting more North Americans that can play in the playoff winning style finesse and toughness and character. The experiment has failed.
Use the Bruins scouting as an example.
Why Gorton has allowed Euro-centric scouting is a failure of his tenure.
Let this be your only post, please and thank you.
 

nyr2k2

Can't Beat Him
Jul 30, 2005
45,702
32,902
Maryland
TJ Oshie comp to Krastov where do you come up with this crap. They are nothing alike. Kravstov is Euro-soft with middling character TJ is the perfect playoff player hard edged and skilled sweats out more character in a day then Kravstov will his whole career.
Rangers scouting has been garbage for decades. Start scouting more North Americans that can play in the playoff winning style finesse and toughness and character. The experiment has failed.
Use the Bruins scouting as an example.
Why Gorton has allowed Euro-centric scouting is a failure of his tenure.
Who just got banned or picked up too many points and can't post? Clearly this is an old alt account someone created.
 

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