Lets talk about the Flames defense

[Coffey]

This garbage is really getting old. People always bringing up a few stupid comments from a few stupid fans would be akin to the idiots on that cesspool CP constantly bringing up the fact that some idiot claimed the Oilers have "4 Giordanos" or that some former pick (was it Comrie?) would score 600 goals and get 1300 points.

This garbage is is not the views of the majority, so regurgitatingas if it is gospel does nothing but make you and every one else that repeats that crap look dumb.

hahahah It was Schremp

hahaha 4 Giordanos... That was during the time we had Smid and thought he would be just as good.

Goddamn I love our rivalry.

And I like you Method Man, you're a good guy despite cheering for the enemy.

 

[Lunatik]

hahahah It was Schremp

hahaha 4 Giordanos... That was during the time we had Smid and thought he would be just as good.

Goddamn I love our rivalry.

And I like you Method Man, you're a good guy despite cheering for the enemy.

Right, Schremp! and thanks, you have your moments too .

The thing is, we all know it's 1 or 2 posters saying most of this stupid crap, but so many people take it and run with it as if we all believe it. It is tiring and honestly makes HF a much worse place as a whole. I would much rather have an honest and frank discussion without the rampant stupidity. My brother is an Oiler fan, we manage to have interesting conversations about each of our teams all the time without any of the ridiculousness.

Here is another truth, neither of our teams are good enough to really talk shit about anything.

 

[Coffey]

Right, Schremp! and thanks, you have your moments too .

The thing is, we all know it's 1 or 2 posters saying most of this stupid crap, but so many people take it and run with it as if we all believe it. It is tiring and honestly makes HF a much worse place as a whole. I would much rather have an honest and frank discussion without the rampant stupidity.

One of my closest friends is a Flames fan and we get along because we both say self-deprecating things about our teams, so it makes the rivalry hilarious.

But what you said about HF... That's just HF.

And frankly... I think the Avengers initiative is forming... As Canadian fans, we combine forces to face a more powerful enemy on the forums... A successful Leafs team.



vs

 

[smack66]

I don't see a lot of Flames games but was wondering if some Flames fans can comment on Dougie. He seems to be the same as when with the Bruins, will put up points but is a little weak in the D zone. He just seems to be one of those guys that will never live up to expectations.

 

[King In The North]

I don't see a lot of Flames games but was wondering if some Flames fans can comment on Dougie. He seems to be the same as when with the Bruins, will put up points but is a little weak in the D zone. He just seems to be one of those guys that will never live up to expectations.

Great offense average defense. Like the rest of the Flames D needs consistency. This team looks even worse because Gulutzan's system has them do virtually nothing in the D zone.

 

[King In The North]

I absolutely despise the Flames, but I really
have to question what in the heck happened to TJ Brodie. He's an absolute disaster defensively the last couple seasons after two really strong years.

There were signs Travis Hamonic was in the midst of a sharp decline - the Isles were able to sell high. Couple that with Gio getting older and giving too much too long to Stone and the only A piece they have left on the back end is Hamilton.

It can't just be the on the goalies anymore.

No. Every year it's the same "insult" from Oilers fans. Our fanbase as a whole has been cautiously optimistic/naturally pessimistic about our squad.

As for Brodie...I'm not really sure what happened to him and unsure if his personal life may have affected his play? He was also paired with Gio and played on the right side. You guys know with Klefbom, their performances compared to previous years are just wildly different.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I've been saying for years the Flames defense is sub-par at actually defending
yes, good offensive d-men but soft defenders on the backend at can't defend properly

 

[Paralyzer]

I love how every flames fan throws Russell under the bus for being a terrible defenceman when they have their own terrible defenseman in Brodie who does the same or worse than Russell. He's over-rated. Giordano is good but he's slowing up a bit, Hamilton is getting bad habits from Brodie and just isn't the type of defenseman you thought he'd be (Big, strong with the body, plays physical), Hamonic and Stone are mediocre at best and would have been much better off just keeping Stone and saving their picks for a better upgrade. Smith is a has-been when they should have went with Darling or a backup that is turning to be a #1. The only thing that's keeping them afloat at this point is Gaudreau and their offense that's playing better than they were rated.

Funny thing is, Oilers are the same way except they are under performing. So we have the same problems as them.

 

[LeafGrief]

One of my closest friends is a Flames fan and we get along because we both say self-deprecating things about our teams, so it makes the rivalry hilarious.

But what you said about HF... That's just HF.

And frankly... I think the Avengers initiative is forming... As Canadian fans, we combine forces to face a more powerful enemy on the forums... A successful Leafs team.



vs

I love that you guys hate us more than you hate your main rivals. I'm honestly tickled pink to be this relevant.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

This garbage is really getting old. People always bringing up a few stupid comments from a few stupid fans would be akin to the idiots on that cesspool CP constantly bringing up the fact that some idiot claimed the Oilers have "4 Giordanos" or that some former pick (was it Comrie?) would score 600 goals and get 1300 points.

This garbage is is not the views of the majority, so regurgitatingas if it is gospel does nothing but make you and every one else that repeats that crap look dumb.

Schremp, IIRC. But you're right, every fan base has shameless homers and unrepentant trolls that make the rest look bad.

 

[Lunatik]

I love how every flames fan throws Russell under the bus for being a terrible defenceman when they have their own terrible defenseman in Brodie who does the same or worse than Russell. He's over-rated. Giordano is good but he's slowing up a bit, Hamilton is getting bad habits from Brodie and just isn't the type of defenseman you thought he'd be (Big, strong with the body, plays physical), Hamonic and Stone are mediocre at best and would have been much better off just keeping Stone and saving their picks for a better upgrade. Smith is a has-been when they should have went with Darling or a backup that is turning to be a #1. The only thing that's keeping them afloat at this point is Gaudreau and their offense that's playing better than they were rated.

Funny thing is, Oilers are the same way except they are under performing. So we have the same problems as them.

What the hell are you talking about... or rather making up?

We've had both Brodie and Russell, they aren't even comparable players. Russell is better defensively than Brodie, but not by a significant margin, but playing the puck and offensively, Brodie is significantly better. That said, Russell is a warrior and a heart and soul guy, most of the mocking around him is for his own goal and for that contract. Giordano isn't actually slowing down. Not sure where you are getting this from. No one expected Hamilton to be anything other than what he is if they had seen him play. He's much like Bouwmeester, except not as good defensively and has a better shot/more active offensively. Hamonic has been hung out to dry by Brodie and is better than you give him credit for. Stone is just fine for what he is and what he is paid. Smith is the only reason we aren't in the cellar with the Oilers.

The only funny thing is that you shit all over the Flames when you have no clue at all. The Flames are very much under-performing, maybe the Oilers are too, but is one good season really evidence that they are under-performing? Or have they slipped back to where they w

 

[Tkachuky]

Everyone want to see hot takes check out the Oilers @ flames gdt

All good. Defense is sucking this year we get it. As an Oilers fan you shouldn't talk as your team was Stanley Cup favorites with a top 10 goalie in the league.

Look in the GDTs and you will not find 1 person talking highly about the defense this year, aside from maybe Gio praise.

 

[Dack]

They finished top 15 in every defensive metric last year and then decided they needed a "stay at home defense man".

Brodie is fine he doesn't need Gio to be successful but he does need a none possession anchor. He still had excellent micro stats last year.(see: The definitive ranking of the NHL's top 23 defencemen over three seasons - Sportsnet.ca) I honestly think the guy is better at D than he is at offence but he's best when the puck is moving TJ Brodie is a fantastic transition player who is spending far too much time in his own zone. He used to be great at breaking up a play and immediately countering by either skating it or passing it up ice.

Hamilton generates the lions share of chances, shots and expected goals when he's on the ice and up until the last stretch of games goals too. I don't expect that to change just because he's going through a rough spell where every chance the opposition has ends up in the net. I don't think he needs Gio either he's always been elite statisticly including when paired with Brodie for a short period of time but its definitely beneficial to play with someone as smart as Gio.

Gio is just as good as he always was but doesn't get involved in the offence as much anymore.

Hamonic was one of the worst defenceman in the NHL last season and while he's been better this year he's still an anchor in every statistic, every once and a while he makes a really nice play and you think "where was that all year". Wasn't a fan of the trade still aren't.

Stone is fine but that's it he looks like an adequate bottom pairing d man who got paid too much. Didn't like it when it happened I wanted Franson, MDZ or the home grown option Andersson.

Kulak is what he is young, mobile and a good puck mover. I like him good bottom pairing d man even though he will make mistakes from time to time.

Honestly outside of the Leafs and Oilers games they haven't been bad lately. Our PDO is also sliding lately we aren't bottom of the league bad yet but they definitely aren't catching breaks.

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

I think lost in all this is how poor their forwards are defensively outside of the Backlund line. They have some of the laziest wingers around and it often feels like there's zero communication defensively between the forwards and D. As far as centres go, Backlund is obviously good (hasn't been as great this year); Monahan is average defensively at best; Jankowski is a rookie and still adjusting to the NHL; the fourth line is complete dogshit.

This isn't a very good team defensively as a whole. Is it coaching and systems? Is it personnel? I think it's the latter.

 

[CraigsList]

Honestly outside of the Leafs and Oilers games they haven't been bad lately.

I highly disagree. A GAA of 3.26 thus far is unacceptable. With the defense we have, the GAA should at LEAST be under 3 GAA. They've been atrocious. And it's not just the defense, we have quite a few forwards who don't put the defensive effort.

 

[Dack]

I highly disagree. A GAA of 3.26 thus far is unacceptable. With the defense we have, the GAA should at LEAST be under 3 GAA. They've been atrocious. And it's not just the defense, we have quite a few forwards who don't put the defensive effort.

I said lately. Yeah on the season they've been bad but the only reason this thread didn't come sooner is because Smith played out of his mind. We were awful for the first 10 or so games but kept on winning because Smith was playing so well, he's no longer playing well and has been really inconsistent for the past 15 games. Last night was a game the Flames win 9/10 They dominated possession but their awful special teams, silly errors and the ref giving us a penalty when a Philly player high sticked his teammate cost us.

The other part of the bad goals against that you might have notice on Phillys tap in 4th goal last night is that the PK is awful. I don't know what happened it was good last season but it's horrible now and is 29th in the league for good reason.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

All good. Defense is sucking this year we get it. As an Oilers fan you shouldn't talk as your team was Stanley Cup favorites with a top 10 goalie in the league.

Look in the GDTs and you will not find 1 person talking highly about the defense this year, aside from maybe Gio praise.

I think he was referring to OKGs player comparison.

And oiler fans saying stuff about mike smith is ridiculous, from what I’ve seem he has been very good and was propping up some bad defensive play with key and timely saves

 

[Maukkis]

Players like Tkachuk and Gaudreau make a decent defence look bad.

And Backlund (at least the Backlund of last season, that is).

 

[Cleatus]

On paper, their D looks like one of the best in the league. Guess it takes more than pretty names and points to actually be a good defensive team.

 

[djpatm]

Remember how all of us older Flames fans kept bringing up Bouwmeester after the Hamonic trade?

This is what we we're talking about. The exact same thing is happening. I predict that instead of firing the coach, Treliving will make a stupid panic trade like Sutter did, just to complete the circle of Hockey mediocrity.

The Bouwmeester trade was supposed to cement the future of the franchise as a contender, instead it destroyed that core and sent the Flames into a nose dive. Here we go again.

What a waste of fantastic play from the the top 6, actually top 9 with how Bennett, Jankowski and Jagr have been playing.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

This year is a little different. The Giordano pairing, since he was first paired with Brodie, has always been elite, regardless of whether he was paired with Brodie or Hamilton. And in previous seasons, Brodie has played at a very high level even when not paired with Giordano (even last season after an adjustment period when he was moved to the left side). This season, however, Brodie has been inconsistent, Hamonic has been a disaster, and the bottom pairing has been a very average bottom pairing (which is a step up from the tire fire it used to be).

This is something people consistently ignore, though: No one has ever said that the Flames defence, top to bottom, was amazing. The argument has always been that the top 3 D were amazing, and then coming into this season, allegedly the top 5 were amazing (although Stone has always been overrated, and it looks like Hamonic fell off a huge performance cliff two years ago, and it might be a permanent one).

 

[DJJones]

Gio - Elite
Hamilton - Same slump as beginning of last year. Why the hell does it take him 30 games to get into the zone. This is three years in a row. I'd bet money the guy looks like an animal by the end of the year just like the last two years but it's still frustrating.
Brodie - WTF, I have no idea what is going on here.
Hamonic - I think he's been fine. Playing like a #4 at the very least.
Stone/Kulak - I like them.

I blame the coach. He's done absolutely nothing to try and fix whatever is wrong with Brodie. Just doing the exact same thing over and over again.

 

[Tkachuky]

I think he was referring to OKGs player comparison.

And oiler fans saying stuff about mike smith is ridiculous, from what I’ve seem he has been very good and was propping up some bad defensive play with key and timely saves

I was referring to Talbot being hailed as a top goalie over last year and in the offseason. Oilers and Flames fans can keep bitching at each other, but as seen on Saturday, it isn't pretty the situation both teams are in. Major underachieving on both ends.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

The reality is, they do have a fairly good defensive core, but aside from Backlund, their forwards suck defensively and it makes everyone look worse as a result. Especially since their defense is built around offensive dmen.

They also don’t have 3 or 4 #1 dmen like Calgary fans usually think. They might not have 1 at this point even. They have 3 dmen in the #2-#3 range, a #4, and a #5. They also have an abundance of currently crap dmen to try on the bottom pairing with Stone.

The forward group has actually improved defensively, which is nice. Monahan isn't going to be on the Selke shortlist any time soon, but he's been much better defensively, to the point that I'd actually consider him a good two-way player. Gaudreau has improved defensively as well. And Tkachuk/Frolik are both very good. The bottom 6, granted, are pretty bad defensively as a group, though.

As to dmen, the top pairing is still a top 3 pairing in the league, and even though Hamilton has the occasional brainfart, both he and Gio are good enough to be #1 defenders on many teams. Brodie has unfortunately been playing below his usual standard through a lot of the year, though.

 

[Flameshomer]

Worry about your own defense before worrying about ours- it appears #1 Dmen Klefbom and Larsson are struggling mightily this year as well!