Let's give credit where credit is due, this team is good.

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'd say given the recent streak we're now probably a safe bet to make the playoffs. But I'd still categorize us as a 'bubble team'. And hey, that's a hell of a lot better than I thought we'd be when we started this season. I really thought we'd have a shot at last place.

We weathered the storm until Weber came back and when he did it made a huge difference for us. Now imagine if we actually had some depth on D and a legit scoring threat in the lineup.

 

[Habs Icing]

Fact is we're a couple of losses away from not being in a playoff spot, and we've been fighting for a wild card spot since Weber's return pretty much. By definition that makes us a bubble team, that's a fact. You're looking at the current standings without consideration to the bigger picture.

We're on an insane hot streak with several players having career year numbers, our goalie is playing at 0.940 save percentage during this streak, all of this is unsustainable and once everything falls back to a median, more realistic range we'll be back to being a bubble team fighting for a wild card spot or just sneaking in by the skin of our teeth.

So if you choose to ignore the bigger picture, that's you prerogative but it doesn't make the facts above any different which in turn renders your argument to an opinion, not a fact thus both my points still stand.

You have a problem distinguishing fact from opinion from speculation. Being a couple of losses from a playoff spot is speculation on your part. We're also a couple of wins from 2nd in the conference. See how you're not the only one who can play this silly game.

 

[1909]

I think MB deserves kudos (as well as the coaching staff) to have brought the team to where they are right now and how they play the game. We dunno IF they gonna make the Playoffs and how far they will go. But so far, it looks good.

 

[Edgy]

You have a problem distinguishing fact from opinion from speculation. Being a couple of losses from a playoff spot is speculation on your part. We're also a couple of wins from 2nd in the conference. See how you're not the only one who can this silly game.

Second in the conference means nothing when several teams below you are a couple of points behind with games in hand. When your goalie is playing at a level that can't be sustained, when several players on the team are scoring at an unsustainable pace. Things will fall back to a more sustainable average, they always do. That's why the term hot streak exists!

Tampa can lose 14 games in a row and still be ahead of us, that's a playoff team. Stop being myopic, there's a bigger picture that you refuse to look at because it destroys your narrative.

I can look outside ignore all the snow and say it must be warm because it's sunny and there are no clouds. That's exactly what you're doing. Ignoring the entire sum of facts and focusing on one stat (current standing) that supports your argument. You're free to do that but it doesn't make your assertion that we are not a bubble team any less false.

 

[CauZuki]

Drouin - Danault - Gallagher
Tatar - Domi - Shaw
Lekhonen - Kotkaniemi - Armia
Byron - Peca - Weise

I don't hate it...

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Yes, but if they are traded for established players (not rentals or projects), there is no problem.

Established, impactful, in our 'needs' bracket, and ideally under 24, yeah, I wouldn't mind that either.

 

[scrubadam]

You forgot Dustin bufflin and Dougy Hamilton...

Like both guys but would take Weber over both of em.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Like both guys but would take Weber over both of em.

Byfuglien is not a good defender.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Like both guys but would take Weber over both of em.

Obviously sarcasm. When pressed to name 20 defenders better than Weber some crazy names get thrown in there.

Imagine a Hamilton-Mete top pair. . Or poor Victor trying to cover for bufflins wandering

 

[scrubadam]

This team is nowhere near contending. There is no three year window right now. I hold to what I have been saying. Habs should strip it right down and build to contend in 2 to 3 years. I said this 3 years ago and I am saying it now. And I will be proven right.

I think this year is a disaster actually. Exactly what I did not want. I wanted one more really **** year. And a true elite player at the draft. KK is not that BTW. Timmins and his team are awful past pick ten. Do not want them picking in the 20's. Though maybe they'll get lucky this year. They're certainly due.

Whats the difference between what we did since the epic collapse and your plan? MB pretty much stripped this team down. so your plan is to trade out vets and be bad for 2 or 3 years and add top 3 picks to the team?

Well I got news for you it already happened. This team has been stripped down there are only 3 players left from that collapse, Price, BG, and Petry.

We sucked for 2 out of the last 3 years. We have 2 3rd OVA picks in our line up right now. MB added our entire LD made up of guys 25 and under. He added our 1C and 2C through trades of veteran/older players. We even took on a cap dump to get some picks and another under 25 year old player. Heck I would even consider Tatar a cap dump at the time of the trade, so thats 2 cap dumps to add picks, prospects, and young NHL ready talent.

So if you don't think that this team is going anywhere why would it be different on the next strip down. And I assume you want to trade essentially all the teams talent since thats the only way the team can be bad enough to build. So we get rid of Price/Weber/BG/Tatar/Petry/Shaw/Byron/Drouin/Domi/Danault then realistically how in 3 years are we going to have an elite 1G elite 1D a 2d a 1C and 2C and depth on the wing. There is no way we are going to draft all those players or get them back in trade returns. And also these players have to somehow in 3 years all end being top 5 at their position because we are going to "contend" so we can't have scrubs. We will need a top 5 goalie and a top 10 or top 5 number 1 Defensemen. How long did it take Price to finally put it together? Drafted in 2005 didn't win a Vezna till 2014. He was inconsistent till then even lost his starting job to Price at one point.

PK drafted in 2007, didn't win a Norris and break points till 2012. Max 2011 he scored 30G. Look at Domi its his 4th year in the league to get where he is. Drouin drafted in 2013.

Your 2-3 year timeline is completely unrealistic. There is no way in 2 or 3 years all of a sudden we are going to ice a completely different team with elite players at all positions. Even if we managed to draft 1st for 3 straight years that still wouldn't be enough players to fill all those holes and that would be hitting every pick out of the park and them all being generational. Meaning no RNH's, or Yakupovs or even Patricks/Hirshc's.

But its easy to say just lose and then you will be the Pens, while forgetting the other 27 teams that drafted top 5 at one point and didn't win a cup. 90% of players drafted top 5 in the last 20 years did not win a cup.

 

[scrubadam]

Byfuglien is not a good defender.

Thats why I wouldn't take him over Weber. HE has a big shot and is a big body, would look good on this team but not as a replacement for Weber.

There aren't many defenders out there I would take over Weber if we don't talk about age/potential in the future. If just talking about the present and switching Weber out with another D for the rest of the season.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I find it curious that people think Weber can't move the puck. He's the most intelligent passer on our defense corps.

It's not that he can't move the puck, it's just that he doesn't move the puck as well as elite defenders do.

 

[OldCraig71]

This thread was created before the shocking events of today. The Weise trade has turned us from good to great.

 

[Runner77]

Perhaps, but if trading a pick or prospect gets you a player whom you can count upon for years, that is not a short-sighted decision.

It's relative of course. When you're dealing with fluid concepts that involve age, contract, salary, injury history, roster redundancy etc., it literally creates a host of permutations that can't be covered by a one-liner on a message board.

So yeah, there are caveats but the general idea remains.

 

[Runner77]

This thread was created before the shocking events of today. The Weise trade has turned us from good to great.

We went from a Dutch oven* to Dutch Gretzky.


*Dutch oven for the uninitiated, is when you trap flatulence under blankets and then pull said blankets over someone's head.

 

[1909]

This thread was created before the shocking events of today. The Weise trade has turned us from good to great.

I would say from "above average" to "good".

 

[Milhouse40]

We went from a Dutch oven* to Dutch Gretzky.


*Dutch oven for the uninitiated, is when you trap flatulence under blankets and then pull said blankets over someone's head.

For some reasons, i was good not knowing what "Dutch Oven" meant.
Ignorance is bliss, thank you for ruining that

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I specifically told you - no rentals. What part don't you get?

That doesn't mean we can't make trades now to help us now. There are players under contract we can go after.


In 5 years Weber will be 38. Do you think he'll be as effective then as now?

Why do you want to burn 5 years of developing mid to late round prospects?

We've already burned six years of Price. You want to burn another 5?

If you're going to burn five years developing your team then trade Price and Weber and get the return on them. You'll draft higher in the meantime accelerating a rebuild.

Doing nothing though means we continue to go for 8th place, draft mid to late, and we waste the careers of our best players. Why do this?

Weber yes
Price yes

Do you still want to be a mid tier team with 0 elite forwards in 25 years

 

[montreal]

I wouldn't say one way or the other what we are when it's Feb, when the season ends we'll see how it went. Clearly things have gone way better then most could have expected. I have no problem giving anyone credit where it is due. I thought this team would be better because I thought they would be quicker and I had hoped that last year was more of a fluke.

I pointed out last year when many posters on this board were gloating at how bad Price was and the Habs that if Price was done and didn't turn it around we are going to be badly f***ed for a long time. Thankfully he appears to be back to his former self so close enough to it. Granted I haven't been watching that many games, due to work and last year still stings as I badly wanted MB fired and CJ and many of the pro scouts. I also wanted Molson to hire a legit president. But I was a big fan of the upgrades in coaching especially at the AHL level where I felt an upgrade would pay dividends down the road to help us get back on track.

Now I don't know what to think, they are playing great, fast, entertaining hockey. Price looks like he could be a top goalie again to close to it. The moves they made seemed to have paid off so far, the Tatar trade could end up one of the best trades the Habs have had in the last 20+ years but will take years to fully know since Suzuki and that 2nd round pick could take a while. Add to that the Domi trade is looking great and you clearly have improvements to the roster. Then add in Kotka who's been better then I could have expected and once this kid matures physically, especially lower body he's going to be a beast.

That said we'll see what happens, this is a very tough month schedule wise in terms of teams and playing so many games in a short span (end of the month has 7 in 11 days, ouch). Then we'll see if we make the playoffs and if so how it goes.

 

[Runner77]

For some reasons, i was good not knowing what "Dutch Oven" meant.
Ignorance is bliss, thank you for ruining that

I had to show a definition since a google search may not have immediately provided it.

Just cause you know what it is, you don't have to do it.

 

[Edgy]

We went from a Dutch oven* to Dutch Gretzky.


*Dutch oven for the uninitiated, is when you trap flatulence under blankets and then pull said blankets over someone's head.

The fact that a term exists for it as disturbing and funny and the fact that you know it raises so many questions lol

 

[Runner77]

The fact that a term exists for it as disturbing and funny and the fact that you know it raises so many questions lol

I also know about other unsavory behaviors but that doesn't mean I practice or endorse any of them.

The Dutch correlation was too good to pass up, though.

Now, whenever Dutch Gretzky lays an egg, we'll have a go-to term to describe his performance. Or lack thereof.

 

[Belial]

Drouin - Danault - Gallagher
Tatar - Domi - Shaw
Lekhonen - Kotkaniemi - Armia
Byron - Peca - Weise

I don't hate it...

Julien clearly doesn't trust Peca at center.

Can we bring back Plekanec out of retirement lmao?

Byron-Plekanec-Weise as a 4th line would be great.

 

[CauZuki]

Julien clearly doesn't trust Peca at center.

Can we bring back Plekanec out of retirement lmao?

Byron-Plekanec-Weise as a 4th line would be great.

Putting Peca on the wing doesn't equal not trusting him in my opinion , we had a hole in our lineup and he used Peca to fill it.
Really unhappy about Chaput being back in the lineup , I find he's been getting worse as the season progresses. Byron and Peca bring incredible speed to our 4th line , adding a physical veteran in Weise could be a very nice combination.

Although I agree in an ideal world we would find a strong faceoff man center our 4th line.

 

[Belial]

Putting Peca on the wing doesn't equal not trusting him in my opinion , we had a hole in our lineup and he used Peca to fill it.
Really unhappy about Chaput being back in the lineup , I find he's been getting worse as the season progresses. Byron and Peca bring incredible speed to our 4th line , adding a physical veteran in Weise could be a very nice combination.

Although I agree in an ideal world we would find a strong faceoff man center our 4th line.

Well he trusts Chaput more than Peca and we're trying to get an upgrade over Chaput here... It won't be Peca.