Value of: Leon Draisaitl

[Double Dion]

Dubois > Monahan, Werenski > Hanifin, and even then, maybe.

Sure, but we were adding 2 1st round picks and a 3rd which makes up the value.

 

[joe dirte]

Yes he certainly has the capacity to be more of a two-way player, but he has never done it. Monahan is poor defensively, but not Draisaitl bad. Monahan is good offensively, but not Draisaitl good. The point is you win with 200 foot centers. Neither Monahan or Draisaitl are that. I'd gut my lineup and prospect pool for a prime Toews/Bergeron type center. I wouldn't for Draisaitl. On top of which early returns on Lindholm down the middle are positive. I get it's a small sample size, but I'd like to let it play out. If it keeps going the way it is we have Backlund and Lindholm for the hard minutes and can shelter Monahan with easy ones.

You would gut your lineup for bergeron? I wouldn't gut my lineup for anyone.

 

[Double Dion]

You would gut your lineup for bergeron? I wouldn't gut my lineup for anyone.

For a 25 year old Bergeron yes. It's why I would for Barkov. Of course not for the 35 year old version.

 

[Viqsi]

Dubois > Monahan, Werenski > Hanifin, and even then, maybe.

Beat me to it. You get a cookie.

* * *​

Sure, but we were adding 2 1st round picks and a 3rd which makes up the value.

No, no it really doesn't. Calgary doesn't have a second #1D to look at like Werenski is, and the one they do have is literally a decade and a half older. That's not the sort of thing that's made up for by adjusting other futures elsewhere - lottery tickets are not the same as lottery winnings. If you really wanted to make a parallel case, the defenseman to suggest would be someone like Gavrikov, not Werenski - and in that case, yes, I would immediately pounce on that deal.

 

[Viqsi]

Hanifiin is closer to Werenski than he is to Gavrikov. Gavrikov doesn't even make the Flames blueline.

So you're not familiar with him. Okay then.

 

[Double Dion]

So you're not familiar with him. Okay then.

I'm familiar. He's equivalent to Nesterov. Our #6 defenseman. He played 3rd pairing sheltered minutes for you guys last year. Hanifin is 23 and plays #3 minutes. Werenski is the same age and plays #2 minutes. Which is 3 closer to 6 or 2?

 

[HabsAddict]

You don't trade Drai to get back Drai and future, you trade him for future to build on.

Habs are not offering...but a package of Kk/Guhle/Primeau or equivilant from other teams makes sense.

Nobody will offer their young top 2 and their young top 3 then add their top prospects.

If you are expecting other teams to dismantle their team and their farm to make oil fans happy....you're dreaming.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

M2B will likely offer virtanen, Sutter and Benn with a 2025 4th and a 2028 7th.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Hes only moving for a young #1D like Makar, Hughes, Heiskanen, Dahlin

No chance in hell he goes for anything less

 

[Double Dion]

Hes only moving for a young #1D like Makar, Hughes, Heiskanen, Dahlin

No chance in hell he goes for anything less

Heiskanen or Makar would be a big win for the Oilers. Not huge on Dahlin and Hughes is kind of like Draisaitl. Spectacular offensively, brutal defensively.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You don't trade Drai to get back Drai and future, you trade him for future to build on.

Habs are not offering...but a package of Kk/Guhle/Primeau or equivilant from other teams makes sense.

Nobody will offer their young top 2 and their young top 3 then add their top prospects.

If you are expecting other teams to dismantle their team and their farm to make oil fans happy....you're dreaming.

If you're expecting to land Leon Draisaitl for the centre version of Jesse Puljujarvi and two good, but not great, prospects, you're the one dreaming. That's a horrendous package, maybe the worst one posted in this entire thread.

 

[Viqsi]

I'm familiar. He's equivalent to Nesterov. Our #6 defenseman. He played 3rd pairing sheltered minutes for you guys last year.

Who or what that the actual f*** are you talking about? Vladislav Gavrikov was and is #4 on the depth chart in Columbus (#2 at LD de facto - Murray was de jure ahead of him, but Murray was regularly injured), playing damn near exclusively alongside David Savard all season last year. ATOI 18:59 - just shy of 19 minutes per game.

Hanifin last year had an AToI of 21:10 per game (right now he's well below that, at 18:23). Gavrikov had 19 minutes per (presently 20:04, tho), so yeah, Hanifin played more last year - but Werenski played 24 minutes per game (and is half a minute ahead of that this year). Which is closer to 21:10 - 19 minutes, or 24? And where are the trend lines going so far this year?

"3rd pairing sheltered minutes". Give me a f***ing break. Maybe you're thinking of Scott Harrington or something, but you sure as f*** aren't referencing anything that's had anything ever to do with Gavrikov.

 

[Double Dion]

Who or what that the actual f*** are you talking about? Vladislav Gavrikov was and is #4 on the depth chart in Columbus (#2 at LD de facto - Murray was de jure ahead of him, but Murray was regularly injured), playing damn near exclusively alongside David Savard all season last year. ATOI 18:59 - just shy of 19 minutes per game.

Hanifin last year had an AToI of 21:10 per game (right now he's well below that, at 18:23). Gavrikov had 19 minutes per (presently 20:04, tho), so yeah, Hanifin played more last year - but Werenski played 24 minutes per game (and is half a minute ahead of that this year). Which is closer to 21:10 - 19 minutes, or 24? And where are the trend lines going so far this year?

Jones, Savard, Werenski, Murray. How is that #4? He's #4 this year, sure since they decided to trade Murray for nothing. He wasn't last year. Hanifin actually played #2 minutes for the Flames last year, but #3 QoC, so I'd call him our 3. Gavrikov has #5 in minutes and #6 in QoC, not sure how anyone could say he was top 4 last year.

 

[Old Boys Club]

Kleborn is not the difference maker lol
Klefborn is at best 3rd in our depth chart, maybe 4th (behind Romanov).

And that's the whole point: having McDavid, Draisatl, RNH and some bad contracts prevent you from having depth.
Lack of depth will be the reason why you'll miss the playoffs this year

Yes he is, it just so happens that he isn't able to play up to his ability with his current injuries (arthritis in shoulder) and will likely have to retire due to it. Look back at 16-17 (the last season the Oilers played well) and look at Klefbom's advanced stats. He was playing like a #1 and, surprise, the Oilers defense wasn't trash. Then lingering shoulder injuries strike and his play dips.

In conjunction, Klefbom's injuries and Sekera suffering an acl tear in 16-17 second round against Anaheim took out two of our top 3 D and we have not replaced them since.

To your second point, yes depth is a problem. Draisaitl, McDavid and RNH's contracts aren't the cause of cap issues. It's the 5M in dead cap, 6.25M in Neal, 7M in Koskinen and Smith, 5.5M in Nurse (long term contract would've been bad imo), 4M in Russell, 4M in Larsson. That's ~32M tied up collectively in a #3RW pp guy (was on the 4th line at the end of last season), 2 goalies that are below average, a 3-4 Dman being forced to play as a #1, two #5-6 Dmen and 4 players that are being paid to not play for us. But sure its the 28 in our 3 best offensive players that is causing depth problems.

 

[Monk]

Jones, Savard, Werenski, Murray. How is that #4? He's #4 this year, sure since they decided to trade Murray for nothing. He wasn't last year. Hanifin actually played #2 minutes for the Flames last year, but #3 QoC, so I'd call him our 3. Gavrikov has #5 in minutes and #6 in QoC, not sure how anyone could say he was top 4 last year.

Here are the D pairings for tonight's game:

Vladislav Gavrikov - Seth Jones
Zach Werenski - David Savard
Michael Del Zotto - Dean Kukan

PREVIEW: Blue Jackets look to build on first win in rematch with Detroit

 

[Double Dion]

Here are the D pairings for tonight's game:

Vladislav Gavrikov - Seth Jones
Zach Werenski - David Savard
Michael Del Zotto - Dean Kukan

PREVIEW: Blue Jackets look to build on first win in rematch with Detroit

We were talking about 19-20. I said he was #4 this year.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Heiskanen or Makar would be a big win for the Oilers. Not huge on Dahlin and Hughes is kind of like Draisaitl. Spectacular offensively, brutal defensively.

Agree totally, but it would take a play of that kind for the Oil to even consider moving Leon

 

[Monk]

We were talking about 19-20. I said he was #4 this year.

Well you appear to be pulling up the 19-20 Jackets roster, sorting by TOI, and coming to a seriously incorrect conclusion... just trying to help.

 

[Viqsi]

Jones, Savard, Werenski, Murray.

I'm done trying with you. There's a baseline of awareness and information needed to be able to discuss this stuff and you evidently don't have it.

 

[Critical13]

So you're not familiar with him. Okay then.

Agreed. Hanifan isn't in the same realm as Werenski, and Gavrikov is actually better at this point. Gavrikov is a beast.

 

[Colt55]

Who’s giving up 1st round picks for cap dump contracts that are less than 2 years long?

I have to say my favorite part of this is “hire the best scouts money can buy”. Bring me the finest scouts of the land! Draft picks: just add water and watch them grow!

I see you making jokes. How about coming up with a solution. Blues gave up a 1st for 2 years of jori lehtera. Depends on size of contract.

 

[Critical13]

If you're expecting to land Leon Draisaitl for the centre version of Jesse Puljujarvi and two good, but not great, prospects, you're the one dreaming. That's a horrendous package, maybe the worst one posted in this entire thread.

Ah, I see they've moved on to offering the Oilers this package for their star player now. It's the new Ryder+Halak+2nd.

 

[Double Dion]

I'm done trying with you. There's a baseline of awareness and information needed to be able to discuss this stuff and you evidently don't have it.

Facts are facts. I get that you don't like what they point to, but 6th in QoC and 5th in TOI doesn't equal a top 4 defenseman.

 

[Double Dion]

Agreed. Hanifan isn't in the same realm as Werenski, and Gavrikov is actually better at this point. Gavrikov is a beast.

Oh my. Gavrikov is a bottom pairing defender for a contending team. People were in love with Nutivaara before too and we saw this offseason what he was worth. A steaming pile of Pu. He can't even crack Florida's roster.

 

[Viqsi]

Facts are facts. I get that you don't like what they point to, but 6th in QoC and 5th in TOI doesn't equal a top 4 defenseman.

Poor quality cherrypicking and ignoring any and all other data doesn't make you right, either.