Lemieux's off season training regimen: "Not ordering the fries with my sandwich"

[billybudd]

Lemieux might have had a bit more longevity (then again, neither his lymphoma nor AFIB would benefit that much. Lumbar pain might have), but I doubt his actual peak performance would improve greatly. Hockey is the game of skill and intelligence first, and with massive skill gap of the 80s even more so. I don't think we've seen that many cases of players who converted their physical ability improvement into great performance increase.

I think this is right. The basis of his game was reach, spatial awareness, hand-eye coordination and improvisation. Three of these are mental and the other isn't particularly affected by better nutrition (unless you're malnourished in youth). Could he have been more durable with better nutrition? Maybe. More dominant in any significant sense? I doubt it.

If he was a Ken Daneyko style drinker, not doing that could have seen a sustained production increase, but he was more of a "two glasses of wine" guy, which doesn't have the same negative neurological consequences (indeed, there's some research suggesting that limited, regular alcohol ingestion is healthy).

 

[Gambitman]

Speaking of 80’s conditioning, I remember reading a story where Glen Sather called Dave Semenko to see how his off season training was going. Senenko says it’s going great except for the running. Sather responds, “0h no, is your knee acting up?” To which Semenko replies, “no, it’s my wind, my cigarette keeps blowing out.”

 

[hitman9172]

Another great Lemieux training regimen quote:

Around the same time as the “French fries” quote, when Mario’s reputation for avoiding training like the plague was well-established, a couple NHL veterans were talking about Lemieux during the off-season (can’t remember the exact players).

The first player says “I hear Mario’s been pumping iron all summer long”. The second replies “Yeah right. What other BS do you have for us?” The first says “No, I’m serious. Mario’s been lifting everything from the 4 iron to the wedge.”

To think a guy like that could dominate the best players in the world makes you realize how remarkable his nature talents were and how Mario was blessed from birth with a physiology designed to be incredibly exceptional at hockey.

 

[JianYang]

Lemieux and Lindros, 6'4 big guys who dominated juniors and arrogantly cakewalked into the NHL, both getting their clocks cleaned by 5'11 guys who bring the fire in the big league.

They both are partially responsible for their underachieving professional careers. It was a bloody embarrassment to watch a 6'4 230 lbs Mario get owned repeatedly by a 5'11 198 lbs. Lithuanian with the heart and grit of a tiger in battle (similarly 6'4 Lindros being constantly slammed by 5'11 Peca).

They are poster boys of overconfident ill-adapted stars who as great as they were, could have been greater if they had the heart, work ethic, grit and willingness to adapt that the opponents they faced had.

Imagine if they had trained in the offseason with Gary Roberts, Rod Brind'amour or Duncan Keith.

Instead, they are more like Keith Tkachuk, Jason Spezza and Phil Kessel.

Sad, really.

How many times did Mario "get his clock cleaned"?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

This is why I hate when people say "omg imagine if Lemieux was fully healthy or if didn't miss so many games, etc". Guy was obviously talented beyond belief, but he was lazy and chose not to take care of himself. Not giving a guy like that a fantasy clean bill of health.

 

[The Panther]

I think the key to Lemieux's lax training/fitness as a pro (if it was really so) is that he was so damn big. It's one thing to be uber-talented in hockey skill and smarts, but it's another to have that kind of elite-level skill and be physically huge.

Although Lemieux, like all the greats, was a hockey prodigy as a child, he would probably have been as big as the older players he played with. Then, once he was 16 or whatever, he was a giant among boys. This contrasts sharply with players like Gretzky (skinny, slight) or Crosby (short), who would always have been smaller and/or lighter than older players.

I do think Lemieux is probably the grade-A, ideal physical specimen of a hockey player, though.

 

[bobholly39]

This is why I hate when people say "omg imagine if Lemieux was fully healthy or if didn't miss so many games, etc". Guy was obviously talented beyond belief, but he was lazy and chose not to take care of himself. Not giving a guy like that a fantasy clean bill of health.

How much correlation is there between his injuries and health concerns and his lack of training? I understand why one might think there could be....but is there?

The way I see it is - lack of training may be more about consistency issues, or slow starts, or not being able to be competitive by year end/playoffs if he was exhausted....i don't think those were really traits of his though.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

A better regime would almost certainly have helped him out a bit just in terms of having a little more juice. But its worth noting that at the time he was also playing against a lot of guys who weren’t optimizing nutrition, smoked etc too. If all of them had “taken care of themselves” by 2019 standards it may have been a zero sum game.

 

[FinProspects]

Its a bit funny that the two probably best forwards (99 and 66) ever are not exactly your stereotypical athletes or hockey player with big muscles or stuff like that. Just shows that skill+hockey sense are the most important thing to have.

 

[The Panther]

A better regime would almost certainly have helped him out a bit just in terms of having a little more juice. But its worth noting that at the time he was also playing against a lot of guys who weren’t optimizing nutrition, smoked etc too. If all of them had “taken care of themselves” by 2019 standards it may have been a zero sum game.

While guys are consistently in better shape today, all year, than when Mario started or in his prime, this idea of "everyone smoked and was out-of-shape in the 80s" gets too much mileage, and is largely false. There were plenty of exercise / fitness nuts then, and most guys were in tremendous physical shape. But maybe there were a few on every team who were either so talented or so talentless (goons) that it didn't really matter.

And Lemieux was still racking up almost two points a game in 2000-01, so...

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

While guys are consistently in better shape today, all year, than when Mario started or in his prime, this idea of "everyone smoked and was out-of-shape in the 80s" gets too much mileage, and is largely false. There were plenty of exercise / fitness nuts then, and most guys were in tremendous physical shape. But maybe there were a few on every team who were either so talented or so talentless (goons) that it didn't really matter.

And Lemieux was still racking up almost two points a game in 2000-01, so...

The idea that Lemieux paid no attention to his physical condition is likely also overplayed for effect in anecdotes. I think its true that back then there was less emphasis on optimized nutrition and less of a consensus on players maintaining a rigorous regime during the offseason.

Theres always been fitness nuts even in the O6 era. But thats different from today where that is generally expected from every player to even make the league.

 

[JianYang]

While guys are consistently in better shape today, all year, than when Mario started or in his prime, this idea of "everyone smoked and was out-of-shape in the 80s" gets too much mileage, and is largely false. There were plenty of exercise / fitness nuts then, and most guys were in tremendous physical shape. But maybe there were a few on every team who were either so talented or so talentless (goons) that it didn't really matter.

And Lemieux was still racking up almost two points a game in 2000-01, so...

I think the Mario that came back in 2000 had no choice but to emphasize his training. It certainly looked like training was much more of a focus for him in those years, but it would be a good question to ask him.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

This is why I hate when people say "omg imagine if Lemieux was fully healthy or if didn't miss so many games, etc". Guy was obviously talented beyond belief, but he was lazy and chose not to take care of himself. Not giving a guy like that a fantasy clean bill of health.

If you read up on it Mario’s health problems were unavoidable. He was born with the spine condition and cancer is cancer. Lemieux went 141> 168> 199. Gretzky around a similar age went 137>164>212

Very similar and then Lemieux was never healthy again. That’s the what if.

 

[scott clam]

I don't think Lemieux's lax attitude towards diet and fitness had that much of an influence on his actual performance - save for maybe some longevity- but there's no mystery as to why this kind of stuff coming from a freak superstar face of franchise player like him would infuriate coaches...

 

[VanIslander]

Apologist after apologist, denial after denial...

His offseason routine was crap.

Better preparedness results in better performance.

Wouldn't've but coulda, shoulda!

Maybe future talents could learn from the lackadaisical habits of Lemieux, Lindros, Tkachuk, Kessel, etc.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Nobody worked out then like they do now hell I heard stories of Guy Lafleur smoking during games. It was a different era.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Nobody worked out then like they do now hell I heard stories of Guy Lafleur smoking during games. It was a different era.

Lafleur was also ahead of his time with respect to fitness though.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Lafleur was also ahead of his time with respect to fitness though.

All I know is he could straight out fly and had style the flower was special.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

If you read up on it Mario’s health problems were unavoidable. He was born with the spine condition and cancer is cancer. Lemieux went 141> 168> 199. Gretzky around a similar age went 137>164>212

Very similar and then Lemieux was never healthy again. That’s the what if.

gretzky, first game of his 137 pt season: 18 yo + 257 days

mario, first game of his rookie year (100 pts): 19 yo + 6 days

really putting a lot of stress on the word “similar” there.

 

[The Panther]

Nobody worked out then like they do now hell I heard stories of Guy Lafleur smoking during games. It was a different era.

The reason you hear stories of it is that it was probably considered unusual back then.

Also, Lafleur and Lemieux are not of the same era. Lemieux started 13 years after Lafleur. The early/mid-80s might have been the time of the fastest changes in the NHL-game that it has ever experienced (well, not counting the 20s). Almost everyone had to work hard to maintain the expected peak physical condition by the late-80s/early-90s when Lemieux was peaking.

 

[82Ninety42011]

The reason you hear stories of it is that it was probably considered unusual back then.

Also, Lafleur and Lemieux are not of the same era. Lemieux started 13 years after Lafleur. The early/mid-80s might have been the time of the fastest changes in the NHL-game that it has ever experienced (well, not counting the 20s). Almost everyone had to work hard to maintain the expected peak physical condition by the late-80s/early-90s when Lemieux was peaking.

Well their careers did over lap more then 5 years so to me similiar era. Maybe your right about game changing in the late 80's however the conditioning now compared to then is world's apart. Mario's game was never about speed anyway but better conditioning would not of hurt him and maybe would have helped.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Well their careers did over lap more then 5 years so to me similiar era. Maybe your right about game changing in the late 80's however the conditioning now compared to then is world's apart. Mario's game was never about speed anyway but better conditioning would not of hurt him and maybe would have helped.

lafleur played 19 games in mario’s rookie year, then retired.

he came back four years later, after already being inducted into the hall of fame, to play three more partial seasons before retiring again.

 

[82Ninety42011]

lafleur played 19 games in mario’s rookie year, then retired.

he came back four years later, after already being inducted into the hall of fame, to play three more partial seasons before retiring again.

True but he was only 33 when retired first time. He was still a top 6 player retired not because of skill I believe was money or something with Canadians.

 

[majormajor]

Do more than skip the fries Mario.
And learn to keep your head up Eric.

This ain't the juniors, where a poor diet and physical traits alone win battles.

The NHL have seen guys get A LOT MORE out of their skillset than this duo of indulgent, maladapting super talented stars.

Sad, really.

They bear some responsibility for the potential they failed to live up to.

This is a weirdly angry take. Both players had amazing careers, no need to savage them. Do we have any evidence of Eric Lindros not training or not eating properly? Your take is uncalled for but it also seems to be based on myths more than reality.

 

[authentic]

Another great Lemieux training regimen quote:

Around the same time as the “French fries” quote, when Mario’s reputation for avoiding training like the plague was well-established, a couple NHL veterans were talking about Lemieux during the off-season (can’t remember the exact players).

The first player says “I hear Mario’s been pumping iron all summer long”. The second replies “Yeah right. What other BS do you have for us?” The first says “No, I’m serious. Mario’s been lifting everything from the 4 iron to the wedge.”

To think a guy like that could dominate the best players in the world makes you realize how remarkable his nature talents were and how Mario was blessed from birth with a physiology designed to be incredibly exceptional at hockey.

Something tells me his parents made him eat his veggies as a kid but when he got on his own he took it upon himself to eat as he pleased.