Lemieux's off season training regimen: "Not ordering the fries with my sandwich"

[The Panther]

While I agree with you wholeheartedly about Lindros, the words "underachieving" & "Lemieux" should never be uttered in any remote part of this universe.

Agree.

No one back in those days worked out in the off-season. No one, so you are completely uniformed. It just wasn't done. They got into shape during camp.

That's not true. Plenty of players worked out in the off-season.

 

[Lukin1978]

I thought Mario joked about not ordering poutine just regular fries.

 

[Florbalista]

No one back in those days worked out in the off-season. No one, so you are completely uniformed. It just wasn't done. They got into shape during camp.

Some players probably didn't work out and it likely was a higher number than these days, but plenty of players did work out during summer, and many players worked out rather strenuously and actually overtrained.

 

[MadLuke]

Imagine if they had trained in the offseason with Gary Roberts, Rod Brind'amour or Duncan Keith.

Considering that when ice time started to be recorded Lindros was among the most used forward in the league:
NHL.com - Stats

And with how much he dominated physically on the ice, where does the Lindros lacking discipline in is training come from ?

NHL.com - Stats

Over 25 minute a game in the playoff.

 

[MadLuke]

Unless you are overweight, nutrition has probably a negligible effect on the performance. Also, if you are playing like Lemieux you can eat whatever you want in the off season.

Nutrition is probably a big factor (if you do not have enough of it) but yes probably not in the way some people think of it, specially for a 6 foot 5 kids that play sports, the giant caloric intake is something they absolutely need and is something hard to do (and can even hurt you) if you try to get it without what some people think has being junk food.

That was Micheal Phelps usual day of eating when training:

• Three fried-egg sandwiches with cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, fried onions and mayonnaise.
• Two cups of coffee.
• - One five-egg omelette.
• - One bowl of porridge.
• - Three slices of sugar coated French toast.
• - Three chocolate-chip pancakes.
• - Half a kg of pasta.
• - Two large ham and cheese sandwiches with mayonnaise on white bread
• - Energy drinks that supplied him with another 1,000 calories.
• - Half a kg of pasta
• - An entire pizza
• - More energy drinks.

Not sure the 1,000 calorie powder shake athlete have access now were mainstream in the 80s.

I club sandwich with fries would not look out of place at all in there I think.

 

[Gambitman]

Nutrition is probably a big factor (if you do not have enough of it) but yes probably not in the way some people think of it, specially for a 6 foot 5 kids that play sports, the giant caloric intake is something they absolutely need and is something hard to do (and can even hurt you) if you try to get it without what some people think has being junk food.

That was Micheal Phelps usual day of eating when training:

• Three fried-egg sandwiches with cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, fried onions and mayonnaise.
• Two cups of coffee.
• - One five-egg omelette.
• - One bowl of porridge.
• - Three slices of sugar coated French toast.
• - Three chocolate-chip pancakes.
• - Half a kg of pasta.
• - Two large ham and cheese sandwiches with mayonnaise on white bread
• - Energy drinks that supplied him with another 1,000 calories.
• - Half a kg of pasta
• - An entire pizza
• - More energy drinks.

Not sure the 1,000 calorie powder shake athlete have access now were mainstream in the 80s.

I club sandwich with fries would not look out of place at all in there I think.

Wow. I had no idea.

 

[JackSlater]

To be fair, while Phelps was indeed wolfing down massive calories he was also training at an incredible rate. I don't think that Lemieux was eating well or training all that much in the off season. I also think that nutrition isn't the huge deal that some make it out to be when it comes to skill based sports at the top level though.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Nutrition is probably a big factor (if you do not have enough of it) but yes probably not in the way some people think of it, specially for a 6 foot 5 kids that play sports, the giant caloric intake is something they absolutely need and is something hard to do (and can even hurt you) if you try to get it without what some people think has being junk food.

That was Micheal Phelps usual day of eating when training:

• Three fried-egg sandwiches with cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, fried onions and mayonnaise.
• Two cups of coffee.
• - One five-egg omelette.
• - One bowl of porridge.
• - Three slices of sugar coated French toast.
• - Three chocolate-chip pancakes.
• - Half a kg of pasta.
• - Two large ham and cheese sandwiches with mayonnaise on white bread
• - Energy drinks that supplied him with another 1,000 calories.
• - Half a kg of pasta
• - An entire pizza
• - More energy drinks.

Not sure the 1,000 calorie powder shake athlete have access now were mainstream in the 80s.

I club sandwich with fries would not look out of place at all in there I think.

What did he eat the pasta with? Spices? Seems exceedingly boring to just eat boiled pasta as is.

The rest...I could live with spaced out over a week. (except the energy drinks)

 

[VanIslander]

Order the fries with your grilled sandwich Mario.

You cruise controlled to the HHOF outside the top 3.

Congrats.

 

[The Panther]

Order the fries with your grilled sandwich Mario.

You cruise controlled to the HHOF outside the top 3.

Congrats.

Since this isn't the "my dad is bigger than your dad" main-boards, I usually avoid this kind of question, but can I ask VanIslander why you have this intense dislike of Lemieux?

 

[sr edler]

Nutrition is probably a big factor (if you do not have enough of it) but yes probably not in the way some people think of it, specially for a 6 foot 5 kids that play sports, the giant caloric intake is something they absolutely need and is something hard to do (and can even hurt you) if you try to get it without what some people think has being junk food.

That was Micheal Phelps usual day of eating when training:

• Three fried-egg sandwiches with cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, fried onions and mayonnaise.
• Two cups of coffee.
• - One five-egg omelette.
• - One bowl of porridge.
• - Three slices of sugar coated French toast.
• - Three chocolate-chip pancakes.
• - Half a kg of pasta.
• - Two large ham and cheese sandwiches with mayonnaise on white bread
• - Energy drinks that supplied him with another 1,000 calories.
• - Half a kg of pasta
• - An entire pizza
• - More energy drinks.

Not sure the 1,000 calorie powder shake athlete have access now were mainstream in the 80s.

I club sandwich with fries would not look out of place at all in there I think.

The guy who did the Michael Phelps diet challenge on YT was/is a professional compulsive eater.

 

[sr edler]

Order the fries with your grilled sandwich Mario.

You cruise controlled to the HHOF outside the top 3.

Congrats.

You can't ever make any subtile jokes or references as a professional sportsman, especially not about such serious things as fries, because some people will take it in a 100% literal sense and hold it against you for decades and decades. Grrr.

 

[Boxscore]

I don't think he would have been much better honestly, when he actually played, but he probably would have been less injury prone and lasted longer.

I agree.

@Big Phil mentioned Mario in comparison the Babe Ruth and I always thought both of those athletes achieved demigod status in their sports because of their skill and mindset. Both had it in their DNA to grab their tools and create for fun. Neither had it in them to train vigorously or pass up a vice or two (cigarettes and steaks for Lemieux, and hot dogs and beer for Ruth). I honestly think this is what made them great. If they were forced to train nonstop and focus on their fitness, they would have lost some of their pure love for the game. As Wayne Gretzky said himself (about the endless hours he spent on the ice as a kid honing his skills), "if I considered it practice, I would never have done it."

I don't think a better fit Lemieux ends up a better player at the end of the day. If we're lucky, his career is prolonged a little more. However, I don't believe superior training would have eliminated his chronic back issues and Hodgkin disease.

 

[alko]

Nutrition is probably a big factor (if you do not have enough of it) but yes probably not in the way some people think of it, specially for a 6 foot 5 kids that play sports, the giant caloric intake is something they absolutely need and is something hard to do (and can even hurt you) if you try to get it without what some people think has being junk food.

That was Micheal Phelps usual day of eating when training:

• Three fried-egg sandwiches with cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, fried onions and mayonnaise.
• Two cups of coffee.
• - One five-egg omelette.
• - One bowl of porridge.
• - Three slices of sugar coated French toast.
• - Three chocolate-chip pancakes.
• - Half a kg of pasta.
• - Two large ham and cheese sandwiches with mayonnaise on white bread
• - Energy drinks that supplied him with another 1,000 calories.
• - Half a kg of pasta
• - An entire pizza
• - More energy drinks.

Not sure the 1,000 calorie powder shake athlete have access now were mainstream in the 80s.

I club sandwich with fries would not look out of place at all in there I think.

Yeah, professional athletes have a hard time periods:

 

[dortt]

How many times did Mario "get his clock cleaned"?

in his comeback season in the playoffs, Jay McKee of the Sabres nailed Lemieux with an open ice hit.

McKee was unconscious before he hit the ice. Basically ran into a brick wall. Our for the series, likely costing the Sabres the series win

 

[Boxscore]

If physical fitness was as important as it's made out to be, why are skinny, scrawny Gretzky and cigarette smoking, flat-chested Lemieux the two greatest offensive machines in hockey history and not Rod Brind'Amour and Gary Roberts?

Rookie Mario couldn't bench his weight once at his first Pens training camp. His teammates laughed in disbelief. When he stepped on the ice in their first team scrimmage, they realized exactly why he was their new franchise player.

 

[Big Phil]

If physical fitness was as important as it's made out to be, why are skinny, scrawny Gretzky and cigarette smoking, flat-chested Lemieux the two greatest offensive machines in hockey history and not Rod Brind'Amour and Gary Roberts?

Rookie Mario couldn't bench his weight once at his first Pens training camp. His teammates laughed in disbelief. When he stepped on the ice in their first team scrimmage, they realized exactly why he was their new franchise player.

This is true. Mostly it was the pure hockey sense of these two that made them great although Gretzky had more of that and Lemieux had just more raw and effortless skill. Look at the 1987 Canada Cup winning goal. Looks normal right, but all of that was natural and when you break it down you can see why Gretzky was so great. He is off to the far right on the faceoff. He watches Lemieux pick the puck up and as soon as he does that little dance around the Russian defender (Igor Kravchuk?) Gretzky is off to the races. By the time Lemieux spins around and has the puck on his stick Gretzky is already ahead of him ready to take the pass. That takes hockey sense and anticipation to know this stuff. Larry Murphy was very smart in his career too and was smart enough to race up the ice as soon as he saw Lemieux's move.

Obviously it is important to be in good shape because that goes a long ways but Rico Fata could of skated circles around Gretzky and Lemieux but was lost as soon as you put the puck on his stick.

in his comeback season in the playoffs, Jay McKee of the Sabres nailed Lemieux with an open ice hit.

McKee was unconscious before he hit the ice. Basically ran into a brick wall. Our for the series, likely costing the Sabres the series win

I can't remember that, but I believe it. Mario was incredibly strong not only on the puck but on his feet. People forget, he was 6'4" 230lbs. I always thought especially once he was in his prime that he was very strong. Watch this clip from Don Cherry's Rock Em Sock Em 5. Start at 2:00. Lemieux just stares him down after scoring a goal and knocks him on his butt. Not sure who the defenseman is.

I agree.

@Big Phil mentioned Mario in comparison the Babe Ruth and I always thought both of those athletes achieved demigod status in their sports because of their skill and mindset. Both had it in their DNA to grab their tools and create for fun. Neither had it in them to train vigorously or pass up a vice or two (cigarettes and steaks for Lemieux, and hot dogs and beer for Ruth). I honestly think this is what made them great. If they were forced to train nonstop and focus on their fitness, they would have lost some of their pure love for the game. As Wayne Gretzky said himself (about the endless hours he spent on the ice as a kid honing his skills), "if I considered it practice, I would never have done it."

I don't think a better fit Lemieux ends up a better player at the end of the day. If we're lucky, his career is prolonged a little more. However, I don't believe superior training would have eliminated his chronic back issues and Hodgkin disease.

Yeah you might be right, maybe these guys were better off just having fun and doing it their own way. You can't complain about the results. Ruth is still in my opinion, and I think most, the best baseball player ever. People look at old grainy videos from the 1920s and think they have it all figured out because he trotted around the bases after a home run. It bothered purists and guys like Ty Cobb that he almost looked lazy out there but he stole 123 bases in his career and hit a ton of triples too. He wasn't slow. He also was a fantastic pitcher while with the Red Sox and held a World Series record for most consecutive scoreless innings for almost half a century. How many know this? I am guessing maybe the back issues aren't as bad, but I am not a doctor so who knows.

I think when you have guys this talented at what they do you can live with the fact they aren't health nuts.

 

[vikash1987]

Gretz was known to have had pizza, hot dogs, chocolate bars, and (diet) cokes in his pre-game meals, for whatever that’s worth.

​

 

[Boxscore]

This is true. Mostly it was the pure hockey sense of these two that made them great although Gretzky had more of that and Lemieux had just more raw and effortless skill. Look at the 1987 Canada Cup winning goal. Looks normal right, but all of that was natural and when you break it down you can see why Gretzky was so great. He is off to the far right on the faceoff. He watches Lemieux pick the puck up and as soon as he does that little dance around the Russian defender (Igor Kravchuk?) Gretzky is off to the races. By the time Lemieux spins around and has the puck on his stick Gretzky is already ahead of him ready to take the pass. That takes hockey sense and anticipation to know this stuff. Larry Murphy was very smart in his career too and was smart enough to race up the ice as soon as he saw Lemieux's move.

Obviously it is important to be in good shape because that goes a long ways but Rico Fata could of skated circles around Gretzky and Lemieux but was lost as soon as you put the puck on his stick.



I can't remember that, but I believe it. Mario was incredibly strong not only on the puck but on his feet. People forget, he was 6'4" 230lbs. I always thought especially once he was in his prime that he was very strong. Watch this clip from Don Cherry's Rock Em Sock Em 5. Start at 2:00. Lemieux just stares him down after scoring a goal and knocks him on his butt. Not sure who the defenseman is.




Yeah you might be right, maybe these guys were better off just having fun and doing it their own way. You can't complain about the results. Ruth is still in my opinion, and I think most, the best baseball player ever. People look at old grainy videos from the 1920s and think they have it all figured out because he trotted around the bases after a home run. It bothered purists and guys like Ty Cobb that he almost looked lazy out there but he stole 123 bases in his career and hit a ton of triples too. He wasn't slow. He also was a fantastic pitcher while with the Red Sox and held a World Series record for most consecutive scoreless innings for almost half a century. How many know this? I am guessing maybe the back issues aren't as bad, but I am not a doctor so who knows.

I think when you have guys this talented at what they do you can live with the fact they aren't health nuts.

Not to stray too much, but I agree with you 1,000% about Ruth. In baseball history, there was Babe Ruth then everyone else. He was a freak who changed the game unlike any other. He was beloved by fans in every city and was more famous than the President of the United States. He is an Americana icon.

Mario's gifts were out of this world. He was more of an artist than a player IMO. He did things that literally "wowed" me night in and night out.

 

[Big Phil]

Gretz was known to have had pizza, hot dogs, chocolate bars, and (diet) cokes in his pre-game meals, for whatever that’s worth.

​

Just goes to show you, the greatest player of all-time just ate what he wanted. No protein shakes, no special diets. Makes you think that the way they played back then which was more natural might just work better even today compared to the modern players who are more stringent off the ice and even on the ice.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Mario was incredibly strong not only on the puck but on his feet. People forget, he was 6'4" 230lbs. I always thought especially once he was in his prime that he was very strong.

i remember when mario started practicing again at the end of 2000 a reporter asked him, do you think you’ll be able to hold up to the rough stuff? defencemen are much bigger and stronger now than three years ago. mario laughs and says, i’m 6’4, 230. i think i’ll be ok.

Just goes to show you, the greatest player of all-time just ate what he wanted. No protein shakes, no special diets. Makes you think that the way they played back then which was more natural might just work better even today compared to the modern players who are more stringent off the ice and even on the ice.

but instead of looking at next level geniuses or preternaturally physically gifted individuals, why don’t we ask what kind of conditioning or diet regimen a more normal guy who succeeded at an elite level followed?

there are always going to be lafleurs, espositos, and guys like that; some guys are naturals. but what did joe sakic eat? did trottier work out? or even look at one of those supermen—would lindros have been better or worse if he’d smoked instead of sculpting his body from marble?

in basketball you look at steve nash. he made himself into a two time mvp through advanced diet and training techniques. you can’t tell me that he’s even in the league if he ate mcdonald’s and smoked everyday.

 

[MadLuke]

The guy who did the Michael Phelps diet challenge on YT was/is a professional compulsive eater.

Not so sure what you mean by that ? What about people that tried to replicate is diet for clicks ?

 

[Voight]

He also smoked a lot and I could be wrong, but IIRC he was quite the party animal too.

Its a bit funny that the two probably best forwards (99 and 66) ever are not exactly your stereotypical athletes or hockey player with big muscles or stuff like that. Just shows that skill+hockey sense are the most important thing to have.

The actual second best forward of all time - Gordie Howe - was an absolute beast despite growing in poverty, in rural Saskatchewan during the great depression, Its pretty notable that he managed to grow into such a force given he didn't get the chance to eat a whole lot as a kid.

 

[sr edler]

Not so sure what you mean by that ? What about people that tried to replicate is diet for clicks ?

What I mean is that it's a lot of food to eat. Clicks?

 

[Big Phil]

i remember when mario started practicing again at the end of 2000 a reporter asked him, do you think you’ll be able to hold up to the rough stuff? defencemen are much bigger and stronger now than three years ago. mario laughs and says, i’m 6’4, 230. i think i’ll be ok.

I do remember that, or at least others saying similar things. Crazy when you think of it, 1997 to 2000 and people think that all of the sudden everyone got bigger and stronger in three years? Yeah, no wonder Mario wasn't worried then.

but instead of looking at next level geniuses or preternaturally physically gifted individuals, why don’t we ask what kind of conditioning or diet regimen a more normal guy who succeeded at an elite level followed?

there are always going to be lafleurs, espositos, and guys like that; some guys are naturals. but what did joe sakic eat? did trottier work out? or even look at one of those supermen—would lindros have been better or worse if he’d smoked instead of sculpting his body from marble?

in basketball you look at steve nash. he made himself into a two time mvp through advanced diet and training techniques. you can’t tell me that he’s even in the league if he ate mcdonald’s and smoked everyday.

Okay, fair enough. I know for sure with Sakic he worked extra hard on his wrist shot. He did things such as taking a roller and using both hands to reel the string in and doing it over and over again. I am sure others did this.

Look, it isn't as if players back in the day weren't in shape. I don't doubt Conn Smythe's military style training camp would hold up today. Look at Herb Brooks and how he got the 1980 Olympic team prepared. He basically drained them, but they were in shape. More players back in the day were farm boys like Hull and Howe so they would naturally be strong with or without hockey. I don't know if there were a lot of players out of shape, say, in the original 6 era. They would be in shape if anything because they'd have jobs in the offseason. Even Maurice Richard worked in a factory, at least in the 1940s.

I think the names above would still be good though. I don't doubt Trottier worked hard but there was something natural about his body too, the low centre of gravity and all. Plus that hockey sense had to just be there. I know Mike Gartner says that while he did work on his speed and skating that much of it was "God-given". I think sometimes we overrate diets and such because these guys are burning it all off with hockey anyway. How did Phil Esposito score over 700 goals in his career despite always fighting with his coaches about his weight?

I think we lose some creativity when we obsess about diets and such, that is just my thought.