Lemieux vs Barbashev

[sabrebuild]

You don't draft guys based on what they did prior to being drafted.

You draft a guy based off a projection of where you think they will be 4, 5, and 6+ years down the road.

So, what they looked like last year and this year is pretty irrelevant at this point.

In 2009 & 2010, Vancouver wasn't kicking themselves for taking Hodgson at 10 over Erik Karlsson.

Today on the other hand....

Wow really? Do you just use your magic ball to guess how to project them?

Its obvious that you are projecting how they will look in 5 years not their exact game at the moment. But you base those projections on their current game, style, size, etc. How would you project Lemieux? He is not a great skater or passer. He doesn't have the size to be the intimidating guy in the NHL. He has a good shot and played on a team with a fantastic number one draft pick in Ekblad.

Barbashev carried his team. He has legitimate possession skills along with being an excellent passer. He has yet to fill out like Lemieux which is and was a positive in his future projection. He backchecks like crazy. He plays physical.

The reality is Lemieux may have a better NHL career. Anything could happen be it luck, injuries or any number of things. But based on the evidence you had to project the two players Barbashev was a much better bet to play in the top nine of an NHL team.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Lemieux is in the top 5 for scoring on the Barrie Colts with 17 points in 16 games, 10 of those being goals. To the posters hating on Murray's decision on Lemieux over Barbashev may I remind you that their are more intangibles that make a person more desired over another rather than raw talent in the later rounds. Lemieux is a born lockeroom leader and a strong voice for his teammates. Not only does he agitate and draw penalty minutes he has offense that is more likely to translate to the NHL which is why he was a safer bet than Barby.

 

[Paxon]

Lemieux is in the top 5 for scoring on the Barrie Colts with 17 points in 16 games, 10 of those being goals. To the posters hating on Murray's decision on Lemieux over Barbashev may I remind you that their are more intangibles that make a person more desired over another rather than raw talent in the later rounds. Lemieux is a born lockeroom leader and a strong voice for his teammates. Not only does he agitate and draw penalty minutes he has offense that is more likely to translate to the NHL which is why he was a safer bet than Barby.

On what do you base that Lemieux is a great leader?

 

[haseoke39]

he has offense that is more likely to translate to the NHL

Why is Lemieux's offense more likely to translate to the NHL?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Why is Lemieux's offense more likely to translate to the NHL?

Cuz 4th line garbage points are easier to collect?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

On what do you base that Lemieux is a great leader?

Dude, he said intangibles so it's literally like whatever, or something.

Murray has made some good moves. But based on popular opinion (at the time) he left value on the 2014 2nd round table.

Of course we won't know for a decade the exact results. But in 3 or 4 we'll have a good idea which way the winds are blowing.

 

[Paxon]

BTW mentioning that Lemieux is top 5 in scoring for Barrie is kinda silly as a point against a guy who is 5th in the entire QMJHL in scoring, with fewer games than all those ahead of him. Barbashev is leading the QMJHL in PPG.

 

[Duddy]

Barbashev would've been beastly.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Barbashev would've been beastly.

I was at the draft and couldn't believe my ears when they didn't announce his name at 31.

 

[Jim Bob]

Wow really? Do you just use your magic ball to guess how to project them?

Its obvious that you are projecting how they will look in 5 years not their exact game at the moment. But you base those projections on their current game, style, size, etc. How would you project Lemieux? He is not a great skater or passer. He doesn't have the size to be the intimidating guy in the NHL. He has a good shot and played on a team with a fantastic number one draft pick in Ekblad.

Barbashev carried his team. He has legitimate possession skills along with being an excellent passer. He has yet to fill out like Lemieux which is and was a positive in his future projection. He backchecks like crazy. He plays physical.

The reality is Lemieux may have a better NHL career. Anything could happen be it luck, injuries or any number of things. But based on the evidence you had to project the two players Barbashev was a much better bet to play in the top nine of an NHL team.

There are a ton of other things that pro teams might have been able to gather that could help some guys and hurt others.

Without seeing the scouting reports that the Sabres had on the two guys and not being in the room when they talked about what to do with the 31st pick after Day 1 and before Day 2, it's impossible to really know the WHY they made the pick they did.

Having seen similar debates over the years here, the teams tend to hit more on the guys they pick than the fan favorites that were passed over.

 

[Sabre the Win]

On what do you base that Lemieux is a great leader?

Ekblad in interviews mentioned it since they were roommates. The best description for him unanimously quoted by scouts is a he's a guy you love to have on your team but hate to play against. It's been mentioned several times he's a character guy and a voice in the lockeroom that hates to lose. He is the type of player you want when in the playoffs because his motor is like Girgensons.

Why is Lemieux's offense more likely to translate to the NHL?

i should have said play style rather than pure offense and I say that because Barby is only good for his offence. If that doesn't translate to the NHL than he is a bust however if Lemieux offense doesn't translate it won't matter because if everyone loves Kaleta than they will love this kid 10 fold and if he can collectively chip in 30-40 points a season, 50 in a good year playing 3rd and 4th line minutes he's already more valuable than Barbashev.

 

[Djp]

If Lemieux plays 400 games on our third line and chips in 10-15 goals per season while being tough to play against that is a terrific pick.

I agree...I dont put much weight in 2nd round picks as others. Success is getting a mid pair/3rd line winge who can last more than a cup of coffee.
r
Its a steal to get a top line winger in the 2nd round or later.

Seeing how a player is doing in the CHL still isnt a high correlation to NHL success.

 

[sabrebuild]

There are a ton of other things that pro teams might have been able to gather that could help some guys and hurt others.

Without seeing the scouting reports that the Sabres had on the two guys and not being in the room when they talked about what to do with the 31st pick after Day 1 and before Day 2, it's impossible to really know the WHY they made the pick they did.

Having seen similar debates over the years here, the teams tend to hit more on the guys they pick than the fan favorites that were passed over.

as I said I would love to hear his reasoning in a direct comparison, since we don't get to have that conversation I will have to speculate on why it could have been made.

As to the teams make better decisions than fan favorites, that's an empty point. Are all fans equal? Do you have any statisical prove of this anecdotal point? No, so I guess we are even. To be quite open about stats say that NHL teams miss on second round picks more than half the time..

 

[sabrebuild]

Ekblad in interviews mentioned it since they were roommates. The best description for him unanimously quoted by scouts is a he's a guy you love to have on your team but hate to play against. It's been mentioned several times he's a character guy and a voice in the lockeroom that hates to lose. He is the type of player you want when in the playoffs because his motor is like Girgensons.

i should have said play style rather than pure offense and I say that because Barby is only good for his offence. If that doesn't translate to the NHL than he is a bust however if Lemieux offense doesn't translate it won't matter because if everyone loves Kaleta than they will love this kid 10 fold and if he can collectively chip in 30-40 points a season, 50 in a good year playing 3rd and 4th line minutes he's already more valuable than Barbashev.

Have you actually watched Barbashev play? His defense is better than Lemieux both from a positional responsibility stand point, but also as an aggressive back checker and all around play. He can play center. He is a better skater. Smarter in general on the ice.

I don't say this to make it sound like Barbashev is Messier and Lemieux is a turd. But to say Barbashev is all offense indicates you have no idea what your talking about. And I wouldn't spend 31st picks on guys that are Kaleta with a better shot.

 

[flashsabre]

Please don't tell me this is going to go on for a couple years. Some like Barbashev, some like Lemieux. There is no statistical proof at all right now to prove who will have a better NHL career so lets put this topic to bed for a few years and revisit it when both are in the NHL producing for their teams. Right now it is just going back and forth on something that hasn't even played out yet.

 

[Paxon]

Ekblad in interviews mentioned it since they were roommates. The best description for him unanimously quoted by scouts is a he's a guy you love to have on your team but hate to play against. It's been mentioned several times he's a character guy and a voice in the lockeroom that hates to lose. He is the type of player you want when in the playoffs because his motor is like Girgensons.

Do not insult Girgensons by comparing his motor to Lemieux's. Lemieux's motor is actually a problem at this point, not a strength. He likes to go after people with the puck, which is the only strength to his game from the standpoint of "motor".

i should have said play style rather than pure offense and I say that because Barby is only good for his offence. If that doesn't translate to the NHL than he is a bust however if Lemieux offense doesn't translate it won't matter because if everyone loves Kaleta than they will love this kid 10 fold and if he can collectively chip in 30-40 points a season, 50 in a good year playing 3rd and 4th line minutes he's already more valuable than Barbashev.

Barbashev is only good for his offense? But he's a better defensive player than Lemieux and it's... it's not even close. 30-40 points? Lemieux has so much work to do before he becomes a 30-40 point player. Barbashev is a better prospect and it's not really close at all. Barbashev is the one who is more likely to be a 30-40 point, well-rounded player.

Please don't tell me this is going to go on for a couple years. Some like Barbashev, some like Lemieux. There is no statistical proof at all right now to prove who will have a better NHL career so lets put this topic to bed for a few years and revisit it when both are in the NHL producing for their teams. Right now it is just going back and forth on something that hasn't even played out yet.

Uh... there has literally never been "statistical proof" that one prospect is a better prospect than another prospect.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Ekblad in interviews mentioned it since they were roommates. The best description for him unanimously quoted by scouts is a he's a guy you love to have on your team but hate to play against. It's been mentioned several times he's a character guy and a voice in the lockeroom that hates to lose. He is the type of player you want when in the playoffs because his motor is like Girgensons.

i should have said play style rather than pure offense and I say that because Barby is only good for his offence. If that doesn't translate to the NHL than he is a bust however if Lemieux offense doesn't translate it won't matter because if everyone loves Kaleta than they will love this kid 10 fold and if he can collectively chip in 30-40 points a season, 50 in a good year playing 3rd and 4th line minutes he's already more valuable than Barbashev.

You have no idea what you're on about.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I read that at least a handful of teams actually had Lemieux going in the first round, so I think it's more that Murray had Barbashev ranked way lower than most, as opposed to having Lemieux ranked high.

Which means that either A) Tim Murray saw something in his game that really scared him off (flaw, low ceiling, etc.), or B) He has an extreme, possibly irrational Russian bias. I'm not totally ruling out B but it's not crazy to think that Murray saw some flaw in his game and didn't like the odds of him being able to fix it for one reason or another. Personality flaw maybe? Dumb?

 

[joshjull]

Why are we spending so much time talking about Barbashev in a thread dedicated to updates/discussion of Sabres prospects?

 

[Bps21*]

Because he scores a lot in the league that everyone scores a lot in.

 

[Paxon]

Why are we spending so much time talking about Barbashev in a thread dedicated to updates/discussion of Sabres prospects?

Because it was brought up and now we're talking about it? It's obviously relevant because the conversation is specifically about choosing Lemieux over Barbashev.

Because he scores a lot in the league that everyone scores a lot in.

You think the Q is some high-scoring league? The **** decade are you typing from?

 

[dotcommunism]

Why are we spending so much time talking about Barbashev in a thread dedicated to updates/discussion of Sabres prospects?

I believe it's a discussion that got relocated from the draft thread

 

[sabrebuild]

Because it was brought up and now we're talking about it? It's obviously relevant because the conversation is specifically about choosing Lemieux over Barbashev.



You think the Q is some high-scoring league? The **** decade are you typing from?

We might as well stop. The only people who are disagreeing have shown to be ignorant on the topic.

 

[flashsabre]

We might as well stop. The only people who are disagreeing have shown to be ignorant on the topic.

This might be the best quote I have ever read on this board and that is saying a lot!! LOL

Anyone who doesn't agree with me is ignorant. WOW

 

[sabrebuild]

This might be the best quote I have ever read on this board and that is saying a lot!! LOL

Anyone who doesn't agree with me is ignorant. WOW

No it's quite specific to posters who don't know the scoring rate in the Q. Or say that Barbashev is only good for offense. Those comments are super ignorant.