TSN: LeBrun: TOR interested in bringing back Andersen?

[ottomaddox]

The first three are on Lou. Dubas let them go as UFA's, but he wasn't in charge when he could have traded them. Dubas just did not re-sign them, and that was absolutely the right move given the deals they ended up getting.

You make those trades when you have guys to replace them or you need the cap space. You don't move them because you are afraid they will walk for nothing, especially when you are in a position to contend like the Leafs are right now.

EDIT: We don't even know if Hyman is gone right now. I imagine if he comes at a reasonable price, he will be here. If he is asking for a lot, then we shouldn't be re-signing him anyways. Dubas will probably give Hyman's money to a similar UFA to replace Hyman... He's not just going to do nothing.

Ok. If you want to split hairs then fine.

Shanny is responsible for allowing a continual march of players going to the UFA Market without any return. Perhaps we can go even further back when he was in charge of Nonis (P.A. Parenteau, Lupul, and Grabner).

 

[socko]

Most teams like to build from the net out. Should be interesting to see how Dubas plans to counter Rask in Boston, Price in Montreal, and Vasy in Tampa. These are all GREAT goalies, some say among the greatest. If Dubas passes on Andy, does he see Campbell as someone who is among those greats? If not, the Leafs will be behind the eight ball.

I would argue only Vasy is great. Rask is nearing the end. Price is overpaid. Campbell should not be the only goalie next year, we need someone else to share the load. He wasn't even able to play all the games in a shortened season without missing games to injury.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Ok. If you want to split hairs then fine.

Shanny is responsible for allowing a continual march of players going to the UFA Market without any return. Perhaps we can go even further back when he was in charge of Nonis (P.A. Parenteau, Lupul, and Grabner).

Lupul never hit UFA. We LTIR’d the remainder of his career

 

[socko]

Rule #1 for contract negotiation is you always let the employer throw out the 1st number. If you're going to lead, make sure its way more than you actually think you will get. Nothing to see here. Andy asking for the same money he was already making says he is fully aware he's not getting it. Any normal goalie in their prime asks for a raise.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Ok. If you want to split hairs then fine.

Shanny is responsible for allowing a continual march of players going to the UFA Market without any return. Perhaps we can go even further back when he was in charge of Nonis (P.A. Parenteau, Lupul, and Grabner).

It's common for every team to let UFA's hit the open market.

Lupul was never a pending UFA. Nobody wanted to meet our price for Parenteau and Grabner, and once again that was Lou.

Has nothing to do with Shanny either. Most of what you are complaining about was under Lou.

 

[ottomaddox]

It's common for every team to let UFA's hit the open market.

Lupul was never a pending UFA. Nobody wanted to meet our price for Parenteau and Grabner, and once again that was Lou.

Has nothing to do with Shanny either. Most of what you are complaining about was under Lou.

No. Don't tell me how to think.

This is all under Shanny, and I'm going to accuse Dubas of doing the same. My complaint is not all that important when you consider everything else.

Since you know the price of Parenteau and Grabner what was it that other GMs wouldn't pay?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Ok. If you want to split hairs then fine.

Shanny is responsible for allowing a continual march of players going to the UFA Market without any return. Perhaps we can go even further back when he was in charge of Nonis (P.A. Parenteau, Lupul, and Grabner).

No, he isn't. It is the GMs responsibility.

 

[ottomaddox]

No, he isn't. It is the GMs responsibility.

Do you think that Shanny is TOR's Prez because he only wants to be a figure head and not be apart of building a hockey team?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

No. Don't tell me how to think.

This is all under Shanny, and I'm going to accuse Dubas of doing the same. My complaint is not all that important when you consider everything else.

Since you know the price of Parenteau and Grabner what was it that other GMs wouldn't pay?

I am just outlining the facts. Think whatever you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

Shanny does not burden himself with that kind of stuff. It's 100% on the GM. He gets involved when there are big moves (i.e. Tavares) or if it has to do with philosophy and vision. So all of this stuff about letting guys go for nothing has literally nothing to do with him unless you expect him to fire the GM over it or it doesn't match his philosophy and vision. Neither seemed to happen, and as I said earlier, literally every GM lets go of pending UFA's for nothing.

As for Parenteau and Grabner, that was from reports. Google it if you want. However, just from a pure logic standpoint, the Leafs sold off most of their UFA's that year. They were rebuilding. It is nothing like the other guys you mentioned though regardless of what the answer is though.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Do you think that Shanny is TOR's Prez because he only wants to be a figure head and not be apart of building a hockey team?

Do you think he overlooks every little thing a GM does? No president does. He has more important crap to do, and that is the whole reason he has a GM in the first place. Otherwise he might as well do it all himself.

Even Masai Ujiri, in a league (NBA) where Presidents are far more hands on with personnel moves, has a GM... And I would bet Webster (the GM) does not run 100% of the things he does past Ujiri either.

There is a big gap between being a figure head and being involved in everything.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Do you think that Shanny is TOR's Prez because he only wants to be a figure head and not be apart of building a hockey team?

I think the president has his responsibilities and if he hires a GM, he will let the GM do his job.

 

[deprw]

I don't know what's the problem here? I think it's more LeBrun speculating than us making contract offer - based of some talks between parties. Off course you ask Andersens camp what they think about his next contract should be. I think we should part ways with Freddy and I hope our front office agrees. Still it's free bit of information, if it's like "I deserve 5 million" or "I want to be back. I think were not finished and I want to prove myself here.". Different mindsets tell something about individual and also maybe something about our team.

I don't think we should visit that idea of signing Freddy at this specific moment, but there might be deadline where we need goalie and best UFA is Freddy. Then you know what his mindset was on this point and could he be motivated to really play here. He won't fit here money wise and even if he could I wouldn't sign him. It's time to move on.

When you can't negotiate with other goalies you should at least talk to that guy you can negotiate. Even if in 99,9% of cases you won't make that contract offer. Unless you have something better to do and I think most part we should have our basic concepts ready for us straight after season. Preparations for UFA period and staff that you do behind closed doors during season.

 

[ottomaddox]

I think the president has his responsibilities and if he hires a GM, he will let the GM do his job.

Yes, but we don't know really do we?

If a President hires a GM does he get to dictate the vision/philosophy? Isn't the vision about winning and sustaining a long term winning culture? When a GM is hired aren't those things just applied?

When Dryden was President he was a pure figurehead and Quinn was the GM and visionary. I do not believe for a second that Shanny is the same figurehead.

I wish I could say that I'm certain of it, but I don't really know for sure. It's just an opinion.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that Dubas is entertaining a loser move like this.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yes, but we don't know really do we?

If a President hires a GM does he get to dictate the vision/philosophy? Isn't the vision about winning and sustaining a long term winning culture? When a GM is hired aren't those things just applied?

When Dryden was President he was a pure figurehead and Quinn was the GM and visionary. I do not believe for a second that Shanny is the same figurehead.

I wish I could say that I'm certain of it, but I don't really know for sure. It's just an opinion.

I suppose it is a possibility; Quinn held both titles GM and president while Shanny does not. The possibility is remote though as he hired a GM and very few few people would work under those restraints. Is it possible that Dubas does? Of course, but not really probable.

 

[ottomaddox]

Do you think he overlooks every little thing a GM does? No president does. He has more important crap to do, and that is the whole reason he has a GM in the first place. Otherwise he might as well do it all himself.

Even Masai Ujiri, in a league (NBA) where Presidents are far more hands on with personnel moves, has a GM... And I would bet Webster (the GM) does not run 100% of the things he does past Ujiri either.

There is a big gap between being a figure head and being involved in everything.

No I disagree. Shanny can be any type of President he wants to be. I have a feeling he's very involved.

Some might say a GM like Dubas is atonimous, but is he really? Shanny gets to choose the vision and philosophy and it's up Dubas to apply it? Really? Why doesn't Dubas get to choose it? Can't he come up with his own? Can't he choose a big name UFA to sign? He has to run it by Shanny? Ok? Why? What about the decisions on the salary cap? Where does Shanny's big picture stuff end? I do agree with you about some things. I don't think Shanny wants to be bothered with who's going to be suiting up to be Carlton The Bear.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Most teams like to build from the net out.

most teams draft forwards early in the draft so that goes against that theory

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that Dubas is entertaining a loser move like this.

He isn't.

There is zero cap money

 

[93WrapAround]

We definitely need a big insurance policy for Campbell, so if Freddy's value has dropped materially, which it should have, this seems like a no brainer. You obviously hope that JC steals the job and runs with it, but there are big question marks there, so if you can get Freddy for good value I'd take it.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He wanted to cement his No. 1 role and a new contract, but was asked if the lack of playing time played on his mind in that regard.
“Not really, because I know what I’m worth, I know I’m a great goalie (but) that’s not at the forefront. The biggest part is what’s going on here with the team. I think we have something special this year, the group we have is amazing and has done well.
“The biggest motivator for me is being part of that.”

Maple Leafs goalie Andersen intends to prove his 'worth' | Toronto Sun

Yeah, great

 

[ottomaddox]

I think Dubas needs to get a decent backup goalie and that's it. I don't think I agree with the idea of platooning. I think Dubas will live or die with Campbell. Maybe I am too rigid on the definition of "platooning". Does it mean a 60/40 split? 48 starts for Campbell and 34 starts for the 1B goalie? I think I would like to see more from Campbell.

 

[Menzinger]

I think Dubas needs to get a decent backup goalie and that's it. I don't think I agree with the idea of platooning. I think Dubas will live or die with Campbell. Maybe I am too rigid on the definition of "platooning". Does it mean a 60/40 split? 48 starts for Campbell and 34 starts for the 1B goalie? I think I would like to see more from Campbell.

I suspect they will be looking to add a guy capable of playing close to 50% of the workload, at least during the regular season.

 

[deprw]

No. Don't tell me how to think.

This is all under Shanny, and I'm going to accuse Dubas of doing the same. My complaint is not all that important when you consider everything else.

Since you know the price of Parenteau and Grabner what was it that other GMs wouldn't pay?

Then when you sell those players basicly for nothing you will accuse GM bending over barrel. Reason why Kekalainen from Columbus get so hefty prices for his UFA players is that he has set price for his players and he wont go under that. If you have common practice on that eventually you have set pattern. In this case pattern that if you want to buy our UFA you pay our price now or later, but there is no reason to wait out until deadline where we might cave in. We don't. If value is 4th rounder you pay 4th rounder or you don't get that player.

Trade wise I don't think we have been fleeced during Dubas tenure. Foligno was expensive piece, but I think he was right choice considering our roster. RFA contracts is another thing. Dubas and Shanahan made mistakes on those negotiations. Starting from flying to europe for Nylander and handing out signing bonuses with big contracts. It should be either way, if you want better structure you wont get money as bonuses, if you give discount you get favorable contract structure. If price is this, structure is this and so on.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I don't believe LeBrun.

This is "making crap up" type stuff because the media needs stuff to get hits. No way Andersen is still a Leaf next season IMO.

If they did talk, it's just a courtesy type thing.

 

[DJB]

I don't believe LeBrun.

This is "making crap up" type stuff because the media needs stuff to get hits. No way Andersen is still a Leaf next season IMO.

If they did talk, it's just a courtesy type thing.

I mean of all the analysts to believe that don't make up crap it would be Bob and Lebrun.

Dreger and Friedman are huge rumor mongers.