News Article: Lebreton

[Golden_Jet]

Is there anything beyond the words of Leblanc? The same person that has skin in the game to save his sullied reputation and the same person to jump to his defence and condemn Melnyk's victims?

If Melnyk didn’t sign off before he passed on submitting Le Breton 2.0, then who gets credit.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

If Melnyk didn’t sign off before he passed on submitting Le Breton 2.0, then who gets credit.

Just for your clarity, this was the post that sparked the discussion:

If the original Lebreton deal went through the Sens would be playing at Lebreton this year

Original Lebreton deal. Not this one now.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Just for your clarity, this was the post that sparked the discussion:

Original Lebreton deal. Not this one now.

Ok my bad. Thanks.
Regarding Tuna, this is a way superior deal, Le Breton 2.0, really happy with the heavy hitters involved. We lucked out really.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

Ok my bad. Thanks.
Regarding Tuna, this is a way superior deal, Le Breton 2.0, really happy with the heavy hitters involved. We lucked out really.

..and I could be really off base here, but we saw the team put together for LBF v 1.

Now perhaps they would have got here, but in LBF v 2, we see some actual heavy hitters with specific expertise areas like designing, building, navigating government, and running an ongoing entertainment facility. No matter who signed off (Leblanc says Melnyk, but also says they did the final sign of late last week, so whatever), I smell the hands of the NHL. Apparently they were aware of Melnyk's health situation and I imagine a conversation like "right, ok, here are the 5 partners you need; do that or you risk us getting involved in a more official nature". Something like that - I'm a fan of Succession.

 

[GCK]

Yeah thats who screwed it up!

It got screwed up by 2 greedy asshats. Ruddy and Melnyk share equal blame.

 

[Ice-Tray]

..and I could be really off base here, but we saw the team put together for LBF v 1.

Now perhaps they would have got here, but in LBF v 2, we see some actual heavy hitters with specific expertise areas like designing, building, navigating government, and running an ongoing entertainment facility. No matter who signed off (Leblanc says Melnyk, but also says they did the final sign of late last week, so whatever), I smell the hands of the NHL. Apparently they were aware of Melnyk's health situation and I imagine a conversation like "right, ok, here are the 5 partners you need; do that or you risk us getting involved in a more official nature". Something like that - I'm a fan of Succession.

Didn’t EM bring LeBlanc and Crowe back exactly for this end game?

Anyways, it’s a sad state to be in when we have to argue over denying people credit for good decions.

We see it with the GM and coach as well. In the end it’s hard to take that point of view seriously.

People are complex, we are capable of doing good things and bad things, and everything in between.

If Eugene got the ball rolling and all the ducks in a row for this deal (which seems obvious that he did to some degree), then kudos to him as a last ownership act because it looks like a great one. It doesn’t erase any misdeeds, it is what it is on its own. We thankfully don’t have to dwell on the fallout because the man is dead and isn’t going to reap any rewards for the work.

As for LeBlanc passing credit; it’s generous to pass credit to the deceased, but you also don’t take credit for a dead man’s work. The outcome is the same, so it’s not indicative either way.

My advice is to let sleeping dogs lie, find a way to get over the appropriated outrage, and move on from Eugene pulling your emotional strings. He’s dead, and the Sens future is looking brighter by the day!

 

[PlayersLtd]

We are potentially talking hundreds of thousands of truckloads.

Just playing around here with my limited experience in bulk material handling but 6 acres excavated to 60' would produce approximately 650,000 cubic yards of cut material, with expansion accounted for.

There are a few different truck combinations to move this but at 25 cu yards per truck (truck + pup) you're dealing with about 26,000 loads.

At $500 / load (disposal cost of $300.00 + 1.5 hrs of travel) that's $13,000.000 for trucking and disposal fees. That number could swing either way depending on proximity to dump site and tipping fees, especially for contaminated soil.

If you had a truck being loaded and rolling out every 5 minutes (conservative) that's 130,000 minutes or 2,166,00 hours or 216 ten hour days.

If you multiply the operation by 6 by having 6 excavators loading that's 21 days. Multiply by 1.5 for your contingency and the hole is dug in 30 days, assuming no blasting.

edit- I divided 216 by 10 and not 6, so actually 36 days and not 21...

 

[Ice-Tray]

Just playing around here with my limited experience in bulk material handling but 6 acres excavated to 60' would produce approximately 650,000 cubic yards of cut material, with expansion accounted for.

There are a few different truck combinations to move this but at 25 cu yards per truck (truck + pup) you're dealing with about 26,000 loads.

At $500 / load (disposal cost of $300.00 + 1.5 hrs of travel) that's $13,000.000 for trucking and disposal fees. That number could swing either way depending on proximity to dump site and tipping fees, especially for contaminated soil.

If you had a truck being loaded and rolling out every 5 minutes (conservative) that's 130,000 minutes or 2,166,00 hours or 216 ten hour days.

If you multiply the operation by 6 by having 6 excavators loading that's 21 days. Multiply by 1.5 for your contingency and the hole is dug in 30 days, assuming no blasting.

That was a cool read, thanks man!

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Just playing around here with my limited experience in bulk material handling but 6 acres excavated to 60' would produce approximately 650,000 cubic yards of cut material, with expansion accounted for.

There are a few different truck combinations to move this but at 25 cu yards per truck (truck + pup) you're dealing with about 26,000 loads.

At $500 / load (disposal cost of $300.00 + 1.5 hrs of travel) that's $13,000.000 for trucking and disposal fees. That number could swing either way depending on proximity to dump site and tipping fees, especially for contaminated soil.

If you had a truck being loaded and rolling out every 5 minutes (conservative) that's 130,000 minutes or 2,166,00 hours or 216 ten hour days.

If you multiply the operation by 6 by having 6 excavators loading that's 21 days. Multiply by 1.5 for your contingency and the hole is dug in 30 days, assuming no blasting.

from Archived - LeBreton Flats Remediation and Infrastructure Project.

The proposed work involves the removal of contaminated soils down to bedrock. The projected activities will include:

• clearing and grubbing the entire site;
• installation of fences around areas to be excavated;
• installation of temporary retaining walls in the excavation;
• installation of hydraulic barriers;
• temporarily closing a bike path going across the site;
• excavation of earth material down to bedrock;
• crushing of large on site material;
• stockpiling of contaminated soil on site and/or off-site;
• sieving and washing of soil on site and/or off-site;
• treatment of contaminated groundwater;
• creation of a temporary sedimentation pond; and
• transportation of contaminated soil to local landfill and/or potentially other NCC property.

The remediation is proposed to commence in the summer of 2012 and be completed by 2014 or at the latest by 2016.

Main environmental issues of concern:

Key issues include:

• Soil contamination by metals, petroleum hydrocarbons and polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons;
• Groundwater contamination by metals, petroleum hydrocarbons and volatile organic compounds (VOC);
• Risk to human health due to dermal contact, ingestion and inhalation of soil and/or groundwater contaminants;
• Impact on wildlife that used the LeBreton Flats as habitat; and
• Impact on vegetation.

 

[Ice-Tray]

from Archived - LeBreton Flats Remediation and Infrastructure Project.

The proposed work involves the removal of contaminated soils down to bedrock. The projected activities will include:

• clearing and grubbing the entire site;
• installation of fences around areas to be excavated;
• installation of temporary retaining walls in the excavation;
• installation of hydraulic barriers;
• temporarily closing a bike path going across the site;
• excavation of earth material down to bedrock;
• crushing of large on site material;
• stockpiling of contaminated soil on site and/or off-site;
• sieving and washing of soil on site and/or off-site;
• treatment of contaminated groundwater;
• creation of a temporary sedimentation pond; and
• transportation of contaminated soil to local landfill and/or potentially other NCC property.

The remediation is proposed to commence in the summer of 2012 and be completed by 2014 or at the latest by 2016.

Main environmental issues of concern:

Key issues include:

• Soil contamination by metals, petroleum hydrocarbons and polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons;
• Groundwater contamination by metals, petroleum hydrocarbons and volatile organic compounds (VOC);
• Risk to human health due to dermal contact, ingestion and inhalation of soil and/or groundwater contaminants;
• Impact on wildlife that used the LeBreton Flats as habitat; and
• Impact on vegetation.

That sounds absolutely insane in scope.

 

[PlayersLtd]

from Archived - LeBreton Flats Remediation and Infrastructure Project.

The proposed work involves the removal of contaminated soils down to bedrock. The projected activities will include:

• clearing and grubbing the entire site;
• installation of fences around areas to be excavated;
• installation of temporary retaining walls in the excavation;
• installation of hydraulic barriers;
• temporarily closing a bike path going across the site;
• excavation of earth material down to bedrock;
• crushing of large on site material;
• stockpiling of contaminated soil on site and/or off-site;
• sieving and washing of soil on site and/or off-site;
• treatment of contaminated groundwater;
• creation of a temporary sedimentation pond; and
• transportation of contaminated soil to local landfill and/or potentially other NCC property.

The remediation is proposed to commence in the summer of 2012 and be completed by 2014 or at the latest by 2016.

Main environmental issues of concern:

Key issues include:

• Soil contamination by metals, petroleum hydrocarbons and polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons;
• Groundwater contamination by metals, petroleum hydrocarbons and volatile organic compounds (VOC);
• Risk to human health due to dermal contact, ingestion and inhalation of soil and/or groundwater contaminants;
• Impact on wildlife that used the LeBreton Flats as habitat; and
• Impact on vegetation.

Oh yeah, I'm not suggesting thats all that's to it. Was just outlining what the volumes and off site trucking operation could look like.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

Didn’t EM bring LeBlanc and Crowe back exactly for this end game?

Anyways, it’s a sad state to be in when we have to argue over denying people credit for good decions.

We see it with the GM and coach as well. In the end it’s hard to take that point of view seriously.

People are complex, we are capable of doing good things and bad things, and everything in between.

If Eugene got the ball rolling and all the ducks in a row for this deal (which seems obvious that he did to some degree), then kudos to him as a last ownership act because it looks like a great one. It doesn’t erase any misdeeds, it is what it is on its own. We thankfully don’t have to dwell on the fallout because the man is dead and isn’t going to reap any rewards for the work.

As for LeBlanc passing credit; it’s generous to pass credit to the deceased, but you also don’t take credit for a dead man’s work. The outcome is the same, so it’s not indicative either way.

My advice is to let sleeping dogs lie, find a way to get over the appropriated outrage, and move on from Eugene pulling your emotional strings. He’s dead, and the Sens future is looking brighter by the day!

I think you have assumed a lot more about my thinking than you should. Neither Melnyk, nor anyone else in management, is pulling my emotional strings. What I do know is that there is a huge difference in the approach to this build vs. a couple of years ago. Is the difference Leblanc? based on my limited info on him, my sense is no. I think the NHL saw an owner who would be passing on soon and inexperienced ownership coming in. it's not a big stretch to imagine that the league would take a great interest.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I think you have assumed a lot more about my thinking than you should. Neither Melnyk, nor anyone else in management, is pulling my emotional strings. What I do know is that there is a huge difference in the approach to this build vs. a couple of years ago. Is the difference Leblanc? based on my limited info on him, my sense is no. I think the NHL saw an owner who would be passing on soon and inexperienced ownership coming in. it's not a big stretch to imagine that the league would take a great interest.

I have read before that the big issue was EM was in recovery from a liver transplant and he left it up to his FO team… even though he signed up for it, he later realised that it was a shit deal and the local government was not helping the Sens… as usual. It escalated and got kibosjed.

This time knowing the writing was on the wall, EM put this together well with the help of some non-local heavy hitters.

It looks good so far.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I think you have assumed a lot more about my thinking than you should. Neither Melnyk, nor anyone else in management, is pulling my emotional strings. What I do know is that there is a huge difference in the approach to this build vs. a couple of years ago. Is the difference Leblanc? based on my limited info on him, my sense is no. I think the NHL saw an owner who would be passing on soon and inexperienced ownership coming in. it's not a big stretch to imagine that the league would take a great interest.

Sorry, I was just building off your post, not accusing you. I should have been more clear!

Also, the league stepping in and sorting things out, to me, is just another way for people to assign credit elsewhere.

Personally I find that the simplest explanation is often the correct one. Eugene knew he was dying, and so he brought back some key executives, put a board in place, and made sure that the submission for Lebreton was ready to go. His plan all along was to leave the team to his daughters, as he has said numerous times.

People may not like the man, but he was a self made billionaire, the prospects of him not setting up his legacy for his kids before passing is a bridge too far to speculate in my opinion.

The league is not the white knight here. Eugene set the team up on a solid path before passing. It’s the most reasonable explanation. For those who want to stay bitter; he didn’t do it for the haters, he likely despises them as much as they despise him. He did if for his daughters, who now are sitting pretty on deciding what to do next.

The approach was much different because Melnyk came back from the hospital and saw a deal that was shit for him and quickly killed it. @JD1 did a great explanation years back on why condo sales were not a great solution for Melnyk, especially with Rudy’s after the fact back door condo expansion with the city’s help.

This deal was done in a much different manner. Easily put, EM didn’t make the last deal himself, and didn’t like what he saw. He made this deal and so like it. He also brought different people in to make this deal happen.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

If Melnyk didn’t sign off before he passed on submitting Le Breton 2.0, then who gets credit.

Oh he obviously signed off, but we all know we have Bettman to thank for this. It's just a farce to try to salvage Melnyk's ruined reputation. It's no surprise that everything started turning around basically the moment he passed away.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

I have read before that the big issue was EM was in recovery from a liver transplant and he left it up to his FO team… even though he signed up for it, he later realised that it was a shit deal and the local government was not helping the Sens… as usual. It escalated and got kibosjed.

This time knowing the writing was on the wall, EM put this together well with the help of some non-local heavy hitters.

It looks good so far.

that was my basic understanding (about realizing later that the team had put together a shit deal). I don't recall the specifics about city involvement, but anyone in his position (the sens being the main component of the whole thing) would be stupid not to push that angle. The main issue he had, as I recall, was Ruddy's expansion of his own project across the road.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

Sorry, I was just building off your post, not accusing you. I should have been more clear!

Also, the league stepping in and sorting things out, to me, is just another way for people to assign credit elsewhere.

Personally I find that the simplest explanation is often the correct one. Eugene knew he was dying, and so he brought back some key executives, put a board in place, and made sure that the submission for Lebreton was ready to go. His plan all along was to leave the team to his daughters, as he has said numerous times.

People may not like the man, but he was a self made billionaire, the prospects of him not setting up his legacy for his kids before passing is a bridge too far to speculate in my opinion.

The league is not the white knight here. Eugene set the team up on a solid path before passing. It’s the most reasonable explanation. For those who want to stay bitter; he didn’t do it for the haters, he likely despises them as much as they despise him. He did if for his daughters, who now are sitting pretty on deciding what to do next.

The approach was much different because Melnyk came back from the hospital and saw a deal that was shit for him and quickly killed it. @JD1 did a great explanation years back on why condo sales were not a great solution for Melnyk, especially with Rudy’s after the fact back door condo expansion with the city’s help.

This deal was done in a much different manner. Easily put, EM didn’t make the last deal himself, and didn’t like what he saw. He made this deal and so like it. He also brought different people in to make this deal happen.

np. a lot of folks here though EM was dumb. i always figured he was dumb like a fox. At the very very least we can say that he pulled the plug on that last deal and was able to get them to where they are now.

 

[MCNSTY]

Sorry, I was just building off your post, not accusing you. I should have been more clear!

Also, the league stepping in and sorting things out, to me, is just another way for people to assign credit elsewhere.

Personally I find that the simplest explanation is often the correct one. Eugene knew he was dying, and so he brought back some key executives, put a board in place, and made sure that the submission for Lebreton was ready to go. His plan all along was to leave the team to his daughters, as he has said numerous times.

People may not like the man, but he was a self made billionaire, the prospects of him not setting up his legacy for his kids before passing is a bridge too far to speculate in my opinion.

The league is not the white knight here. Eugene set the team up on a solid path before passing. It’s the most reasonable explanation. For those who want to stay bitter; he didn’t do it for the haters, he likely despises them as much as they despise him. He did if for his daughters, who now are sitting pretty on deciding what to do next.

The approach was much different because Melnyk came back from the hospital and saw a deal that was shit for him and quickly killed it. @JD1 did a great explanation years back on why condo sales were not a great solution for Melnyk, especially with Rudy’s after the fact back door condo expansion with the city’s help.

This deal was done in a much different manner. Easily put, EM didn’t make the last deal himself, and didn’t like what he saw. He made this deal and so like it. He also brought different people in to make this deal happen.

Erin Crowe, as you earlier mentioned, was 100% brought back for this transition post-EM and to help with the financing of the arena deal. She’s highly respected and great at what she does. LeBlanc was brought in earlier on (with the club for over two years now), but is someone who is trusted by the league and has a lot of connections in the sports industry. Both being local also helps a lot in other areas. They are a great duo to have right now.

 

[supsens]

Oh he obviously signed off, but we all know we have Bettman to thank for this. It's just a farce to try to salvage Melnyk's ruined reputation. It's no surprise that everything started turning around basically the moment he passed away.

Come on now. E.M spent the last of his days working on this plan. And you know he would get "only the best for his babies "
He mentioned in 2017 the young Ladies were getting the team . Many things can still go wrong but so far it looks good.
I wonder what they mean by 'still have to finalize the lease deal for the land'

 

[MCNSTY]

Come on now. E.M spent the last of his days working on this plan. And you know he would get "only the best for his babies "
He mentioned in 2017 the young Ladies were getting the team . Many things can still go wrong but so far it looks good.
I wonder what they mean by 'still have to finalize the lease deal for the land'

On needing to finalize the lease deal for the land: This group is the chosen group to develop the land, however, NCC is keeping the land itself rather than selling the parcel off. Now that this group has been chosen to develop on said land, they can work on a lease and get that signed by the Sens/partners. It is then theirs to proceed with the development. That will also mean that they will start paying for the use of the land. The official timeline states that they want a lease signed in early 2023, but I have heard the NCC previously mention that they’d like it signed by end of 2022.

 

[Knave]

Come on now. E.M spent the last of his days working on this plan. And you know he would get "only the best for his babies "
He mentioned in 2017 the young Ladies were getting the team . Many things can still go wrong but so far it looks good.
I wonder what they mean by 'still have to finalize the lease deal for the land'

Of course it would look good. The owner who threatened to move the team on television in front of its fans and then turned out to be a disrespectful and abusive boss died. The team isn't playing so we can't judge winning or losing of the on ice product. We just won an arena bid.

The next few weeks leading up to the draft and then free agency could be the best in a while. Still doesn't mean much if we suck again in October-December and then play middling hockey from January out.

I don't mean to put down anyone's optimism but this is the honeymoon phase.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Come on now. E.M spent the last of his days working on this plan. And you know he would get "only the best for his babies "
He mentioned in 2017 the young Ladies were getting the team . Many things can still go wrong but so far it looks good.
I wonder what they mean by 'still have to finalize the lease deal for the land'

You're welcome to believe that, but I don't buy it. It's people with emotional ties to the guy trying to bring his reputation back to being moderately respectable and not remembered in shame imo. Just like people cheerleading his daughters like they're the best thing for the team and not one of the new power groups apparently lining up, it's just an emotional tie to a battle they've been fighting here for 5+ years imo.

This building was happening with or without him and while Anna and Olivia may turn out to be fine owners unlike their dad, I think the argument stands that it would still be better off with one of the big new groups that were apparently lining up to buy it.

 

[Ice-Tray]

You're welcome to believe that, but I don't buy it. It's people with emotional ties to the guy trying to bring his reputation back to being moderately respectable and not remembered in shame imo. Just like people cheerleading his daughters like they're the best thing for the team and not one of the new power groups apparently lining up, it's just an emotional tie to a battle they've been fighting here for 5+ years imo.

This building was happening with or without him and while Anna and Olivia may turn out to be fine owners unlike their dad, I think the argument stands that it would still be better off with one of the big new groups that were apparently lining up to buy it.

I’m sorry man but this post just reads like an incredibly bitter person who didn’t get their revenge before the local sports team owner died.

You’re literally making up bullshit fantasies so that you can be pleased with the current situation without having to acknowledge the role of one of the main people who set it up. No, the NHL did orchestrate this deal, the owner of the Sens did, for his daughters, before he died. He hired a former employee back to help the transition, and put a board in place to run the organization once he was gone.

Let your hate go man, it’s making you look desperate, and you’re better than that. No one is trying to make Eugene look good, or sing his overall praises, some of us just don’t require people who have done bad things to be completely evil. Some of us can condemn some of his behaviour, while also being thankful that he had the foresight and desire to set the franchise up for his departure.

As for the daughters, I have teenaged daughters. I want to see what these two can do because I’d love to see what mine would do, and it makes the situation very interesting for me. I’m also tired of watching folks beg for rich men to facilitate their escapisms, and I secretly enjoy watching middle aged men squirm at the idea of two young women owning the team. Such an easy underdog situation to cheer for.

 

[Loach]

I would like to see some articles, press comferences, something that shows that EM did all of that and the NHL wasn't directing it. You'll have to excuse me if I don't take your word for it.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I would like to see some articles, press comferences, something that shows that EM did all of that and the NHL wasn't directing it. You'll have to excuse me if I don't take your word for it.

Google news. It is there.