News Article: Lebreton talks in mediation to salvage deal

[Masked]

Last year Forbes says we had 124M in revenue, better than only 5 teams. We'd need another 25m in revenue to get to the median point in a 31 team league. Doesn't matter who owns this team, that kind of revenue isn't here.

Suppose we needed to do that with gate receipts. Forbes reported we had 35m in gate receipts. We'd need that number to rise by 25m, or by a little over 70%. There's already a ticket affordability issue, how could any owner raise ticket prices by 70%?

Forbes doesn't have the real numbers. The gate revenues are guesses.

 

[supsens]

Forbes doesn't have the real numbers. The gate revenues are guesses.

I guess escrow and the cap are guesses also? They have the numbers it's what they do.

 

[Grizwald]

L'Aveuglette...you're back. You're so predictable. You made a off base post last night about Tierney and faceoffs and i quoted the stats for you, clearly showing you were off base. Silent as a church mouse you were.

Yes the guy is a terrible owner

But he certainly did attempt to develop additional revenue streams. That's not standing up for him, it's a simple reality. And him not being able to generate additional revenue streams at this point is quite a problem now isn't it?

Exactly! Melnyk isn't now, has never been, and will continue to be a person who is unqualified financially to be an NHL owner. And one of the main reasons why Melnyk can't secure additional revenue is because nobody in their right mind wants to partner with him, and if they're dumb enough to try, they end up getting sued.

The SENS' downward spiral will continue as long as Menlyk remains owner; it's an unbelievably sad state of affairs that Melnyk has created for himself, and the Senator's organization, the fans, and the City of Ottawa will be left to pick up the pieces.

I'm absolutely disgusted at this point.

 

[JD1]

Forbes doesn't have the real numbers. The gate revenues are guesses.

So what would your guess be on gate revenue?

 

[topshelf15]

I don't disagree with you. Melnyk's problem really started at the outdoor game. After his comments that day things really turned south.

That said we're a 25 year old franchise and we've really only been properly funded for 10 of those years. The first 10 years under Melnyk where he bankrolled the losses. I think if he was maximizing every nickle in this market we still couldn't afford to be a "profitable well run team" without additional revenue streams.

Last year Forbes says we had 124M in revenue, better than only 5 teams. We'd need another 25m in revenue to get to the median point in a 31 team league. Doesn't matter who owns this team, that kind of revenue isn't here.

Suppose we needed to do that with gate receipts. Forbes reported we had 35m in gate receipts. We'd need that number to rise by 25m, or by a little over 70%. There's already a ticket affordability issue, how could any owner raise ticket prices by 70%?

Disagree,the money from the fans has been there...The fact remains under both ownerships the team has never spent, save maybe a season two when the cap was in the 50 mil range....EM knew what he was getting into and instead of realising he may need to make more money available....He decided to go on his 10 year perpetual rebuild kick....

And wonders why words like "stanley cup discount"," spend when the time is right" no longer carry any weight with anyone....Now he gets a huge opportunity handed to him on a silver platter,and surprise surprise he cant afford to fund this either...So tell me again how this isnt about the ownerships lack of funds,and how this is on the fact we remain a small market due to the latter

 

[topshelf15]

So what would your guess be on gate revenue?

Maybe EM should open up his books and prove he isnt making any money........

 

[topshelf15]

Point being you cant budget your way into anything sustainable,you either have the money to go after the big dollars or you dont...

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Not sure i get the east of bank reference. The gatineau one sure i get that but east of bank?

Doesn't seem to be a lot of team promotion in places like Orleans, Cumberland, Hawkesbury, Rockland, etc. It feels like the team mostly cares about Kanata, Nepean, Barrhaven and the Valley. (Yes, I know there is a sensplex in Gloucester, but that isn't a new arena.)

 

[JD1]

Disagree,the money from the fans has been there...The fact remains under both ownerships the team has never spent, save maybe a season two when the cap was in the 50 mil range....EM knew what he was getting into and instead of realising he may need to make more money available....He decided to go on his 10 year perpetual rebuild kick....

And wonders why words like "stanley cup discount"," spend when the time is right" no longer carry any weight with anyone....Now he gets a huge opportunity handed to him on a silver platter,and surprise surprise he cant afford to fund this either...So tell me again how this isnt about the ownerships lack of funds,and how this is on the fact we remain a small market due to the latter

It's a little more complicated than money from fans. The "fans" in this market do a VERY good job of taking money out of their pockets and buying tickets. We fans spend more on tickets than fans in other canadian markets. That's a fact. But the market has the smallest potential corporate base and that's a huge problem.

We have 34 m in gate receipts. Toronto has 94, Montreal has 90. That's not because their "fans" spend more.

Look man, i never said fans need to spend more. But there is a reality to this market. I posted the other day 60m or so seems to be on the upper end of expenses not related to salary. Add in 80+ in salary and the money isn't there. Not in the market and not in Melnyk's pocket

 

[JD1]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of team promotion in places like Orleans, Cumberland, Hawkesbury, Rockland, etc. It feels like the team mostly cares about Kanata, Nepean, Barrhaven and the Valley. (Yes, I know there is a sensplex in Gloucester, but that isn't a new arena.)

Actually the sensplex in gloucester is new. It's a 4 pad and 3 of the pads are new

I live in orleans. There's no shortage of promotion. It's a PITA to go to a weeknight game. Promotion won't change that. Lebreton will

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Actually the sensplex in gloucester is new. It's a 4 pad and 3 of the pads are new

I live in orleans. There's no shortage of promotion. It's a PITA to go to a weeknight game. Promotion won't change that. Lebreton will

It's not just about going to games. It's about growing the fanbase.

The further east you go from downtown, the lower the percentage of Sens fans among hockey fans. I have more people out here in Prescott Russell who are Bruins or Blackhawks fans than Sens fans (and that doesn't include the army of laff and hab fans). It's often difficult to find another Sens fan out here to talk hockey. And a lot of this is because of decades of little promotion and presence in the area.

 

[Micklebot]

Last year Forbes says we had 124M in revenue, better than only 5 teams. We'd need another 25m in revenue to get to the median point in a 31 team league. Doesn't matter who owns this team, that kind of revenue isn't here.

Forbes had us ahead of Col, Clb, Car, NYI, Fla, and Arz. Median was 146 (Tbay), not 149 (nobody?).
I'm also not sure median rev is an absolute requirement here; Nsh, Ana, Jets, Wild are all below the median and wel run orgs that don't have reports (or admissions) of cutting costs to the bone.

I also think our gates revenue has been dropping relative to other sources in part because of the way things have gone lately according to forbes though I'd have to dig into their numbers. We probably look a little better without the recent drama over the last 24 months.

Just took a look at gates over the years thanks to the wayback machine:
2018: 33
2017: 46 (deep playoff run)
2016: 36 (terrible year with Cameron)
2015: 41
2014: 41
2013: 29 (lockout year)
2012: 50
2011: 46

So, right up to 2015, we seemed to have no issues with gates if we go by Forbes' numbers, perhaps not the 25 mil you're looking for, but enough to get us far more competitive no doubt.

 

[Masked]

I guess escrow and the cap are guesses also? They have the numbers it's what they do.

What a spectacularly stupid comparison. The NHL releases the escrow and cap amounts. They do not release financial information.

 

[Masked]

So what would your guess be on gate revenue?

That's a pointless exercise.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Actually the sensplex in gloucester is new. It's a 4 pad and 3 of the pads are new

I live in orleans. There's no shortage of promotion. It's a PITA to go to a weeknight game. Promotion won't change that. Lebreton will

Arnprior is 40 Kms from the CTC, and on a weekday game, it probably takes less than 30 mins to drive to the CTC.

Carleton Place is 27 Kms from the CTC, and on a weekday game, it probably takes less than 20 mins to drive to the CTC.

Olreans is about 42 Kms from the CTC, and on a weekday game, it probably takes about 55 mins to drive to the CTC.

Relocating to Lebreton Flats is essential to the Senators long term viability, and "fixes" are needed to the CBA to close the loopholes that allow the large markets from pulling further away from the smaller market teams as they've been doing in the past decade.

Oh, and having a Federal Government do whatever it takes to get the CDN dollar up to par with the US dollar would also go along way as well.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Forbes had us ahead of Col, Clb, Car, NYI, Fla, and Arz. Median was 146 (Tbay), not 149 (nobody?).
I'm also not sure median rev is an absolute requirement here; Nsh, Ana, Jets, Wild are all below the median and wel run orgs that don't have reports (or admissions) of cutting costs to the bone.

I also think our gates revenue has been dropping relative to other sources in part because of the way things have gone lately according to forbes though I'd have to dig into their numbers. We probably look a little better without the recent drama over the last 24 months.

Just took a look at gates over the years thanks to the wayback machine:
2018: 33
2017: 46 (deep playoff run)
2016: 36 (terrible year with Cameron)
2015: 41
2014: 41
2013: 29 (lockout year)
2012: 50
2011: 46

So, right up to 2015, we seemed to have no issues with gates if we go by Forbes' numbers, perhaps not the 25 mil you're looking for, but enough to get us far more competitive no doubt.

I know some people don't see the exchange rate as an issue, BUT, let me remind you that the Senators expenses are almost all in US dollars, and the weaker CDN dollar is a factor in determining the teams budget.

Take a look at the numbers you've posted, and compare them to the CDN vs US dollar.

Now please tell me the exchange rate is not a factor in the operational budget of the Senators​

 

[Tuna99]

I know some people don't see the exchange rate as an issue, BUT, let me remind you that the Senators expenses are almost all in US dollars, and the weaker CDN dollar is a factor in determining the teams budget.

Take a look at the numbers you've posted, and compare them to the CDN vs US dollar.

Now please tell me the exchange rate is not a factor in the operational budget of the Senators​

It is a factor, see news articles from 1982.

 

[Micklebot]

I know some people don't see the exchange rate as an issue, BUT, let me remind you that the Senators expenses are almost all in US dollars, and the weaker CDN dollar is a factor in determining the teams budget.

Take a look at the numbers you've posted, and compare them to the CDN vs US dollar.

Now please tell me the exchange rate is not a factor in the operational budget of the Senators​

Nobody said that the exchange rate isnt an issue what you have been repeatedly told was that forbes revenue and operating income estimates already accountes for differences in exchange rates. In this particular case you actualy have a point that lower gates is in part due to the change though. The good news is that the rev sharing program was in part intended to protect well run canadian teams from the bulk of the damage caused by changes in exchange rates .

 

[coladin]

I don't disagree with you. Melnyk's problem really started at the outdoor game. After his comments that day things really turned south.

That said we're a 25 year old franchise and we've really only been properly funded for 10 of those years. The first 10 years under Melnyk where he bankrolled the losses. I think if he was maximizing every nickle in this market we still couldn't afford to be a "profitable well run team" without additional revenue streams.

Last year Forbes says we had 124M in revenue, better than only 5 teams. We'd need another 25m in revenue to get to the median point in a 31 team league. Doesn't matter who owns this team, that kind of revenue isn't here.

Suppose we needed to do that with gate receipts. Forbes reported we had 35m in gate receipts. We'd need that number to rise by 25m, or by a little over 70%. There's already a ticket affordability issue, how could any owner raise ticket prices by 70%?

That is what I have been saying for a long time. A new owner would be great, but this market cannot sell out at the current prices, let alone get to a point that the team has the revenue to compete with the big clubs.

 

[JD1]

That is what I have been saying for a long time. A new owner would be great, but this market cannot sell out at the current prices, let alone get to a point that the team has the revenue to compete with the big clubs.

No it can't but i don't see it as a fan issue per se. I'd put the majority of the issue on the lack of a corporate base.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

No it can't but i don't see it as a fan issue per se. I'd put the majority of the issue on the lack of a corporate base.

It does lead one down an interesting path when one considers that the biggest reason the Senators have a small budget is because there aren't enough people to purchase "subsidized tickets".

 

[Take a Bath Son]

"Losers blame others and winners plan to succeed" Eugene Melnyk April 13, 2018.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

"Losers blame others and winners plan to succeed" Eugene Melnyk April 13, 2018.

Funny considering he was blaming the fans just 6 months before the town halls.

 

[Masked]

Funny considering he was blaming the fans just 6 months before the town halls.

Thus proving his twitter statement correct.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Nobody said that the exchange rate isnt an issue what you have been repeatedly told was that forbes revenue and operating income estimates already accountes for differences in exchange rates. In this particular case you actualy have a point that lower gates is in part due to the change though. The good news is that the rev sharing program was in part intended to protect well run canadian teams from the bulk of the damage caused by changes in exchange rates .

Look, we all know the numbers on Forbes are all in US dollars ....... my point has always been that when expenses rise due to the exchange rate, revenues are impacted, as more CDN dollars are used to buy US dollars, leaving fewer revenues for the operational budget of the team.