GDT: League of Justice @ Cowardly Smurfs, 7PM EST

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Since the 3rd line can't really function as a "checking" or energy line and since Westgarth is useless getting 3 min / game. Why not try and turn the 3rd line into a more offensive line with Bowman-Jussi-Boychuk and turn the 4th line into an energy line (Dwyer-Brent-LaRose). Even though it's a tiny line, I think Muller would be more comfortable giving that 4th line at least 10min-12 min / game.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Since the 3rd line can't really function as a "checking" or energy line and since Westgarth is useless getting 3 min / game. Why not try and turn the 3rd line into a more offensive line with Bowman-Jussi-Boychuk and turn the 4th line into an energy line (Dwyer-Brent-LaRose). Even though it's a tiny line, I think Muller would be more comfortable giving that 4th line at least 10min-12 min / game.

That's just way too much common sense.

Playing Westgarth less than 3 minutes a game is a joke. Get the guy out of the lineup if he can't contribute more than that.

Westgarth: 4 GP, 11:46
Boychuk: 1 GP, 10:13

I mean, come on.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I just gave two instances of those players standing out. I understand there's the focus on the other guy on their line, because he's a new shiny toy, but it's not like he's creating those chances himself nor does it mean the rest of his line hasn't had their own chances.

Again, LaRose has been getting his own scoring chances and Jokinen's been playing the typical, silent playmaker he's been assigned to do. There's no finish on the line (as expected), but the chances are there. And like Boom Boom pointed out above, the finish isn't there for most of the forwards.

The biggest issue is the 4th line rather than the 3rd, IMO. Even in a shortened season, you can't run 3 lines an entire season, especially while putting the heavy focus on the top 6 as Muller has done.

I understand why he's done it, since our bottom 6 has been disappointing (to say the least), but if we're expecting the play from the team this early in the season is just rust, then when that rust shakes off, we need the players to still be...breathing...by the time the late season rolls around.

Isn't the 3rd line supposed to play against weaker competition? Then why are they constantly outplayed? Sure they have had a few scoring chances but they've also given up more than their fair share of scoring chances.

I don't really think saying that those two in particular have underperformed through 5 games is a stretch do you? I'm not saying they are terrible hockey players or that Dan Ellis should replace them, I'm saying that haven't played well.

 

[Ole Gil]

Does the team need another quasi-useful forward in the lineup? I mentioned this in a different thread, but I don't think there are enough minutes to go around as it is.

So a guy who serves a limited but specific purpose (fighter should the game get out of hand) that you don't really need to find icetime for might be a good thing.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Isn't the 3rd line supposed to play against weaker competition? Then why are they constantly outplayed? Sure they have had a few scoring chances but they've also given up more than their fair share of scoring chances.

I don't really think saying that those two in particular have underperformed through 5 games is a stretch do you? I'm not saying they are terrible hockey players or that Dan Ellis should replace them, I'm saying that haven't played well.

They're getting outplayed because the "weaker competition" has always been a better 3rd line than ours. No one played well the first two games, Buffalo (IIRC) had their "D-bag" line as their 3rd (Ott, Kaleta, etc), and Boston's is self-explanatory.

I just don't think their play has warranted a discussion about how poor they've been playing. They haven't played well (in that they haven't scored), but like I said, my bigger issue is the use of the 4th line and their time spent on the ice (or lack thereof).

 

[DaveG]

I honestly still think the answer is go out and sign a #3 C (Langkow, Moore, whoever), move Juice back to one of the wings. Bowman or (preferably) LaRose moves down to the 4th line. Westgarth to the press box.

Tlusty - Staal - Semin
Skinner - Staal - Dalpe
Jokinen - Moore/Langkow - Bowman
LaRose - Brent - Dwyer

small but looks pretty good to me.

 

[Ole Gil]

The question is:

Does anyone have a problem with Eric and Jordan playing 21 to 22 minute a night?

If Jussi is going to get 15+, we're pretty much out of time.

Maybe when we are in busier stretches of the schedule, or the game is not close, switch out westgarth and get them a few extra shifts. But I can't see how not getting Anyone/Brent/Dwyer out at even strength more is an issue.

Unrelated, 29:13 for Joni is crazy. That's a lot of minutes.

 

[Joe McGrath]

They're getting outplayed because the "weaker competition" has always been a better 3rd line than ours. No one played well the first two games, Buffalo (IIRC) had their "D-bag" line as their 3rd (Ott, Kaleta, etc), and Boston's is self-explanatory.

I just don't think their play has warranted a discussion about how poor they've been playing. They haven't played well (in that they haven't scored), but like I said, my bigger issue is the use of the 4th line and their time spent on the ice (or lack thereof).

But it deserves discussion that McBain is weak on his skates after every game he plays? We micro analyze every aspect of every game and it doesn't warrant a discussion that the third isn't living up to what Muller specifically said he wanted them to be. He thought that having guys who had played in top 6 roles playing on the third line would be an advantage and it hasn't been. That doesn't deserve discussion?

The usage of the 4th line is a whole other issue.

 

[bleedgreen]

Well the positives are that our top two lines are doing what we hoped they would. That's a luxury we haven't had in a while, and it allows us time to complain about the third. The like lacks identity and purpose. Jussi's offense always struggled when he becomes the defensive minded center, he takes one for the team. He should credited for that over criticism. I think it's true that eventually we have to figure that line out, but it isn't the reason we lost.

Lets face it, a shortened season is not kind to us. Too many chemistry issues, we weren't good defensively and only added Corvo, and our goalie isn't where he should be yet. Not one guys fault or an easy fix. Our bottom three d have too much flux in it IMO, and we are short a defensive defenseman in the mold of Bryan Allen. I think we need that more than a more purposeful third line. Our top two score enough if they do like last night.

 

[AD Skinner]

I honestly still think the answer is go out and sign a #3 C (Langkow, Moore, whoever), move Juice back to one of the wings. Bowman or (preferably) LaRose moves down to the 4th line. Westgarth to the press box.

Tlusty - Staal - Semin
Skinner - Staal - Dalpe
Jokinen - Moore/Langkow - Bowman
LaRose - Brent - Dwyer

small but looks pretty good to me.

I agree 100%. I've been banging this drum since before the season started; Jokinen is being completely wasted centering the third line. He's not big, he's not fast, and when playing with guys like Bowman and LaRose the best aspect of his game (his hands) gets wasted because he has no one to finish the opportunities he can create. Putting him at center also neutralizes his ability to get creative in the offensive zone as he is supposed to be the first forward back on D. If we were able to snag a legit 3rd line center whether it's Langkow, Arnott, Cullen, or whoever, I'd try something like this:

Tlusty-Staal-Semin
Skinner-Staal-Jokinen
Bowman-Mystery Man-Dalpe
LaRose-Brent-Dwyer

 

[tarheelhockey]

The question is:

Does anyone have a problem with Eric and Jordan playing 21 to 22 minute a night?

If Jussi is going to get 15+, we're pretty much out of time.

We get about 7 minutes of PK per night. Let's say Jordan is out for about half of that, there's 3 minutes for him. Say Jussi and Brent split the other half, that's 2 minutes each.

We get close to 9 minutes of PP per night. Let's say Eric and Jordan are both out there for 2/3rds of that time, there's 6 minutes each. Jussi might play 3 minutes.

So Eric is at 6 minutes Jordan at 9, Jussi at 5 and Brent at 2, out of a total of about 16 minutes of special teams play.

Now let's say that the remaining even strength minutes (44) are broken down according to a 10:9:8:5 ratio, which is pretty ordinary across the board. That would leave us with about the following:

Jordan 21
Eric 20
Jussi 16
Brent 9

That template gives Eric and Jordan their ~21 minutes, Jussi his 15+, and still leaves time for 7 minutes of even-strength play from the fourth line. And I don't think I've made any wild reaches with that template.

This isn't a math issue, it's a conscious decision that Muller is making every night.

 

[Oenatzu]

I guess it's too much to ask for this team to have one defenseman on the ice who can actually defend and start the play. When Boston forwards forechecked the only place our defensemen were able to get the puck was in front of our own net.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen so many two pad stacks in one game.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I'll touch on this later, but the next 5 games are all very winnable.

2 against the Senators, 2 against the Flyers and a game against the Leafs.

The Leafs are a train wreck, and the Flyers roster suddenly looks devoid of talent (it looks like only Giroux and Briere, great as they are, are alone in the talent department), with defense that is old and immoble and Bryzgalov in net.

The Sens are good, but their team is built for speed and skill, like us. Combined with Ward (and Semin) usually having great games against the Sens, and 4-1 is very possible. I'm expecting at least 3-2.

 

[OntarioFisherman*]

Also, I don't think I've ever seen so many two pad stacks in one game.

I haven't seen that many two pad stacks since I played NHL 95

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

I honestly still think the answer is go out and sign a #3 C (Langkow, Moore, whoever), move Juice back to one of the wings. Bowman or (preferably) LaRose moves down to the 4th line. Westgarth to the press box.

Tlusty - Staal - Semin
Skinner - Staal - Dalpe
Jokinen - Moore/Langkow - Bowman
LaRose - Brent - Dwyer

small but looks pretty good to me.

Its not official, but I don't think Moore will play this year. His wife recently lost her battle with cancer.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

I know Arnott failed his physical, but did anyone hear why? If it's something minor that can be worked through he'd still be an upgrade imo.

 

[Unsustainable]

Trade a 2nd round pick for Cullen.

Trade for Despres from Pitt.

Something like:

Tlusty / Eric / Semin
Skinner / Jordan / Jussi
Bowman / Cullen / LaRose
Dwyer / Brent / Dalpe
Westgarth

Pitkanen / Faulk
Despres / Gleason
Harrison / Mcbain
****ing Corvo

 

[Identity404]

I think Ward played too much NHL 13 during the lockout. Two pad stacks are money stoping breakaways in Be A Pro.

 

[DaveG]

Sadly there's no way we can roll a lineup like that while still acquiring Despres. The Pens aren't going to want a future piece along the lines of Murphy, they want something that can make them a better team NOW and going forward. And if it doesn't, it's gotta likely hurt the team acquiring from them more then it hurts them long term. Murphy only fills one of those two improvement aspects, going forward. Does nothing for them now, so they have no motivation to make that trade.

 

[Sasha Cares]

This team without Faulk is a disaster... getting out of our own zone each night is comical

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I want nothing to do with Cullen. And reading the Wild board, they all want to get rid of him, which tells me even more that I want nothing to do with Cullen.

 

[Sasha Cares]

I want nothing to do with Cullen. And reading the Wild board, they all want to get rid of him, which tells me even more that I want nothing to do with Cullen.

which means the trade is a done deal

 

[Ole Gil]

We get about 7 minutes of PK per night. Let's say Jordan is out for about half of that, there's 3 minutes for him. Say Jussi and Brent split the other half, that's 2 minutes each.

We get close to 9 minutes of PP per night. Let's say Eric and Jordan are both out there for 2/3rds of that time, there's 6 minutes each. Jussi might play 3 minutes.

So Eric is at 6 minutes Jordan at 9, Jussi at 5 and Brent at 2, out of a total of about 16 minutes of special teams play.

Now let's say that the remaining even strength minutes (44) are broken down according to a 10:9:8:5 ratio, which is pretty ordinary across the board. That would leave us with about the following:

Jordan 21
Eric 20
Jussi 16
Brent 9

That template gives Eric and Jordan their ~21 minutes, Jussi his 15+, and still leaves time for 7 minutes of even-strength play from the fourth line. And I don't think I've made any wild reaches with that template.

This isn't a math issue, it's a conscious decision that Muller is making every night.

Looking at the TOI stats, I think maybe we were just all off because we're judging 4th line TOI by Westgarth and not Brent? Brent's avg'ing about 7 minutes of even strength play a night. So they're just double shifting one of the wingers with the 4th line instead of playing Westgarth.

That seems reasonable?

 

[TheBigKahuna]

Hasn't Brent had some penalty kill time?

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Hasn't Brent had some penalty kill time?

Yes, but he was mentioning even strength time only.

Brent: 6:43ES TOI/game
Westgarth: 2:56 ES TOI/game