Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 5-3

[Laista]

Marner could be the Best player after this season. He really is the engine in the offensive zone

 

[TheDoldrums]

I actually think long-term it makes sense to drop Kadri to the second unit, put Matthews in the slot and Nylander on the opposite flank. This would also give Babs his matchup centre to throw out there after PP1 shifts.

 

[ACC1224]

that's not the point. the question was that @weems said that people have to eat crow.
eat crow about what?.

again. all people were saying is having two units that can hurt you is better than having one uber unit. I don't remember anyone saying that having a stacked unit was bad, or stupid, it was simply offering a difference of opinion. so why exactly does one have to eat crow?

No idea, agreed no crow should be eaten.

 

[CanadasTeam]

can't help but laugh Ray-Ray is already in mid-season form, subtly cheer leading the Leafs opposition and not knowing who is on the ice most times

I like Ray but sometimes he thinks he's on Overdrive and turns it into the 'Ray Ferraro' show. Couldn't help but laugh when he tried to call JT a couple of times but couldn't decide if it's Tav-AH-res or Tav-EH-res lol.

 

[81Leafs50]

Carey Price just let in 5 goals on 26 shots and 2 shorthanded goals. Do you think he will clear waivers?

this should be a poll on twitter.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'd be happy if they not only had the #1 unit but blow away whoever comes in 2nd.

Agree 100%, this should be the goal. The argument that we were #2 last year and so on is also completely irrelevant as 2 guys from our #1 unit aren't back this year so you have to start thinking from square one anyway. Stacking that #1 unit with the talent we have seems so obvious and those are exactly the 5 players I'd roll with.

Just wait until the playoffs start. If our #1 unit kills it the way I believe they will, any doubters will be silenced.

 

[Al14]

Good teams find ways to win games even they play like crap.

Its a good sign

Win or not, preseason or not, it's a bad sign to me that they played like crap against a hated rival!

You have to play your very best at all times against rivals from within your division. Especially against teams like the Habs, Bruins, Sabres, Wings, and Senators! JMHO.

 

[PromisedLand]

Win or not, preseason or not, it's a bad sign to me that they played like crap against a hated rival!

You have to play your very best at all times against rivals from within your division. Especially against teams like the Habs, Bruins, Sabres, Wings, and Senators! JMHO.

Not disagreeing with you but just based on a one game sample I think it is too early to pass any kind of judgment

 

[weems]

so again. i'll ask - why would I have to eat crow - for simply saying I like having two units that can hurt you, vs. having a stacked unit. I respect your opinion of why you want a stacked unit (and others too), I (or others who think having two balanced units work as well), never said this idea was dumb, or wrong. it was simply a difference of opinion.

If Toronto is first this year -it would be interesting to see if it's because they actually had more powerplay opportunities - not just stacking the unit. I personally don't know if Toronto stacked the powerplay last year if it meant the Leafs would have been 1.2% more efficient (0.7 the year before - those are how close the Leafs were from being 1st each year). People have been saying the Leafs very rarely draw penalties (dead last last year). We'll see.

again. I simply don't see why you'd want to have people eat crow, for simply having an argument that's reasonable.

Maybe eating crow was the wrong phrase to use I've just been confused why so many people have been against going this route. Just recently there was a poll that had about 30% saying they'd prefer having two balanced units and I just disagree with that approach. Wasn't trying to say anyone wanting that setup is dumb or anything just that I disagree with it and think people that voted against it might be wrong in this case.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Mitch is going to have a huge year

 

[Daisy Jane]

Win or not, preseason or not, it's a bad sign to me that they played like crap against a hated rival!

You have to play your very best at all times against rivals from within your division. Especially against teams like the Habs, Bruins, Sabres, Wings, and Senators! JMHO.

why do they have to play their very best against hated rivals. that's a 'fan' thing.
this team has like zero beef against any of those teams. including Boston.

 

[CanadasTeam]

Maybe eating crow was the wrong phrase to use I've just been confused why so many people have been against going this route. Just recently there was a poll that had about 30% saying they'd prefer having two balanced units and I just disagree with that approach. Wasn't trying to say anyone wanting that setup is dumb or anything just that I disagree with it and think people that voted against it might be wrong in this case.

I think both sides have a point and neither is necessarily right or wrong. The coach even said it clearly "Who said I stacked the power-play unit?" lol.

It's a look and see case/situation so whoever scores the most and shows highest probability is the plan they'll continue to move forward.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Maybe eating crow was the wrong phrase to use I've just been confused why so many people have been against going this route. Just recently there was a poll that had about 30% saying they'd prefer having two balanced units and I just disagree with that approach. Wasn't trying to say anyone wanting that setup is dumb or anything just that I disagree with it and think people that voted against it might be wrong in this case.

that's fair.
i mean i've stated it before.
I think personally it's sort of like how we're gonna be 5 on 5.
You have Matty. okay so who do you put out against Tavares?
and then you have Kadri feasting on whomever is left.

that's how i see the powerplay.
Oh look. you tripped Matthews and now you're gonna go on the bench
but oh crap their 2nd unit can burn you just as much as the 1st unit. and if the 2nd Unit can't do it. welll.... now here we go for the 1st unit. and *snipe*

and me personally I don't really care about if they are 1st or 2nd in the regular season. they're gonna get their goals. i think top 3 should be a given. Now if the stacked unit in the playoffs can go from 11 to 4 to say 1 - then maybe that's what pushes us from the 1st round to the 2nd round. (as our production dropped in both years). Buffalo didn't make the playoffs last year, and Washington went from 7th to 2nd.

 

[razkaz]

I actually think long-term it makes sense to drop Kadri to the second unit, put Matthews in the slot and Nylander on the opposite flank. This would also give Babs his matchup centre to throw out there after PP1 shifts.

As I said earlier, switch Kadri with Marleau on the top PP unit and you still have the guns without worrying about the next line after PP ends.

 

[weems]

that's fair.
i mean i've stated it before.
I think personally it's sort of like how we're gonna be 5 on 5.
You have Matty. okay so who do you put out against Tavares?
and then you have Kadri feasting on whomever is left.

that's how i see the powerplay.
Oh look. you tripped Matthews and now you're gonna go on the bench
but oh crap their 2nd unit can burn you just as much as the 1st unit. and if the 2nd Unit can't do it. welll.... now here we go for the 1st unit. and *snipe*

and me personally I don't really care about if they are 1st or 2nd in the regular season. they're gonna get their goals. i think top 3 should be a given. Now if the stacked unit in the playoffs can go from 11 to 4 to say 1 - then maybe that's what pushes us from the 1st round to the 2nd round. (as our production dropped in both years). Buffalo didn't make the playoffs last year, and Washington went from 7th to 2nd.

I agree with a lot of what your saying.

Let me ask you this question tho (Lets use Matthews not being on the first unit for arguments sake).

So we're down a goal late in the game and we get a powerplay.

Does it sound optimal in this scenario where we obviously need to convert to not have one of the very best players in the league and best goal scorers on the ice?

Or is the plan to change the unit up late in games when you need a big goal. This could work but also is a bit risky because the player being inserted that wasn't previously there might struggle to find chemistry right away.

I guess the main jist of what I'm saying and have always been saying is Matthews not being on the #1 unit doesn't seem optimal and there prolly isn't one other comparable example leaguewide of a guy this good and this good at scoring goals that doesn't play on his teams first unit. Not every powerplay is equal in terms of importance and there will be times late in game regular season and playoffs where we need to come up with a big goal and in those instances I think having gone the route of two balanced units can backfire.

 

[Al14]

why do they have to play their very best against hated rivals. that's a 'fan' thing.
this team has like zero beef against any of those teams. including Boston.

Okay, play like crap, and lose then! Whatever floats your boat.

Oh, and, ZERO beef my ass!

 

[Daisy Jane]

I agree with a lot of what your saying.

Let me ask you this question tho (Lets use Matthews not being on the first unit for arguments sake).

So we're down a goal late in the game and we get a powerplay.

Does it sound optimal in this scenario where we obviously need to convert to not have one of the very best players in the league and best goal scorers on the ice?

Or is the plan to change the unit up late in games when you need a big goal. This could work but also is a bit risky because the player being inserted that wasn't previously there might struggle to find chemistry right away.

I guess the main jist of what I'm saying and have always been saying is Matthews not being on the #1 unit doesn't seem optimal and there prolly isn't one other comparable example leaguewide of a guy this good and this good at scoring goals that doesn't play on his teams first unit. Not every powerplay is equal in terms of importance and there will be times late in game regular season and playoffs where we need to come up with a big goal and in those instances I think having gone the route of two balanced units can backfire.

i think in that case - that's Babcock to change things up, which we can all admit he's kinda slow on doing

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree with a lot of what your saying.

Let me ask you this question tho (Lets use Matthews not being on the first unit for arguments sake).

So we're down a goal late in the game and we get a powerplay.

Does it sound optimal in this scenario where we obviously need to convert to not have one of the very best players in the league and best goal scorers on the ice?

Or is the plan to change the unit up late in games when you need a big goal. This could work but also is a bit risky because the player being inserted that wasn't previously there might struggle to find chemistry right away.

I guess the main jist of what I'm saying and have always been saying is Matthews not being on the #1 unit doesn't seem optimal and there prolly isn't one other comparable example leaguewide of a guy this good and this good at scoring goals that doesn't play on his teams first unit. Not every powerplay is equal in terms of importance and there will be times late in game regular season and playoffs where we need to come up with a big goal and in those instances I think having gone the route of two balanced units can backfire.

To me, this is the crux of it. And when you get right down to it, goals are crucial so that should the main focus - what gives us the best chance of scoring a goal. What the match-up is on the next shift after is like 100 times less important.

Edit - and I personally do NOT think that changing up units on the fly is a good idea at all.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Okay, play like crap, and lose then! Whatever floats your boat.

Oh, and, ZERO beef my ass!

so.. you would want them (this close to the regular season) to play their very best, and potentially get injured? even when this is the first game when most of the main team is together simply so you can say "whee, we beat Montreal?" - when it literally means nothing to a good 80+ percent of the people on the team right now? I'd rather them not be injured. that's what floats my boat.


what rivalry does this version of the Maple leafs have with
Ottawa?
Detroit?
Boston (no. just because we lost to them, doesn't mean there's a "rivalry.")
Montreal?
that's not nostalgic fandom?

I'd argue - there's one developing vs. Tampa (as those games are always chippy), Florida games kinda get like that too. Buffalo is more their side than our side, but as they get better, then i'll probably see it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Okay, play like crap, and lose then! Whatever floats your boat.

Oh, and, ZERO beef my ass!

It's only an exhibition game.

 

[Bedards Dad]

Win or not, preseason or not, it's a bad sign to me that they played like crap against a hated rival!

You have to play your very best at all times against rivals from within your division. Especially against teams like the Habs, Bruins, Sabres, Wings, and Senators! JMHO.

No you have to win those games when at your worst, because you should always win at your best, that's what good teams do. Playing well if just a nice add-on for the fans.

 

[Kiwi]

I actually think long-term it makes sense to drop Kadri to the second unit, put Matthews in the slot and Nylander on the opposite flank. This would also give Babs his matchup centre to throw out there after PP1 shifts.

Kadri's bloody good in that bumper role though, he's dominant on the PP in that specific role and I doubt anybody on the team could do it better

Having our top 3 centers on the same unit is a bit of an issue though, maybe use Marleau or Nylander as the center for 30 seconds after a PP if Lindholm isn't trustworthy?

 

[razkaz]

To me, this is the crux of it. And when you get right down to it, goals are crucial so that should the main focus - what gives us the best chance of scoring a goal. What the match-up is on the next shift after is like 100 times less important.

Edit - and I personally do NOT think that changing up units on the fly is a good idea at all.

I think we would be just as effective on the PP with:

Tavares
Matthews-Marleau-Marner
Rielly

This frees up Kadri to take the next shift

 

[Al14]

so.. you would want them (this close to the regular season) to play their very best, and potentially get injured? even when this is the first game when most of the main team is together simply so you can say "whee, we beat Montreal?" - when it literally means nothing to a good 80+ percent of the people on the team right now? I'd rather them not be injured. that's what floats my boat.


what rivalry does this version of the Maple leafs have with
Ottawa?
Detroit?
Boston (no. just because we lost to them, doesn't mean there's a "rivalry.")
Montreal?
that's not nostalgic fandom?

I'd argue - there's one developing vs. Tampa (as those games are always chippy), Florida games kinda get like that too. Buffalo is more their side than our side, but as they get better, then i'll probably see it.

As a former athlete, I know that injuries can occur when you are not playing your hardest too! Sometimes an injury occurs because you've let up somewhat. Injuries happen to all athletes, some less than others. It's a chance you take by playing a physical game.

Sure, it's a preseason hockey game, so, there is no need to go out of your way to always complete your check with a hard hit. I get that. You don't need to block a shot in a preseason game either. I get that too. However, as a former hockey coach, I always encouraged my teams to play to the best of their abilities at all times despite whether the game counted for anything.

All sports have both a physical and psychological component involved. Skill does not always trump hard work. If you allow a less skilled team to compete with you evenly, they will. So, I think it's important to establish dominance and set the tone that not only are you skilled, you're going to also compete hard and outwork them too.

The Habs lost last nights game, however, I bet they came away thinking they can beat our Leafs by working harder next game. The next game with them counts!

As for competing hard against our divisional opponents. We are competing directly with them for the playoffs, and, home ice advantage!

As for Boston, they have eliminated our Leafs from the playoffs both series we've met them recently!

As for Ottawa, well, the battle of Ontario is taken seriously by their fans. The Sens players would like nothing better than to play spoilers against us too. Our Leafs need to take them seriously when playing them.

As for Montreal, well, they have 24 Stanley Cup wins to our Leafs 13! We will likely never catch up, however, let's dominate them as much as we can now and in the future.

If avoiding injury is a players goal, then, just don't play the game. Simple as that. Injuries are a fact of life as an athlete. Playing to avoid injury sometimes can cause an injury to occur too.

JMHO.

 

[Al14]

It's only an exhibition game.

Setting the tone for when it does count is my mantra!