Post-Game Talk: Leafs Win! 5-2 over Isles!

[Asif16*]

Whatever. Im not gonna argue about fraser no more. Ill let randy make the decisions

 

[Banic]

We were down those players tonight as well, but still instantly looked much better.

We still got out shot. Still gave up tons of odd man rushes. The difference is that our wingers were clicking. Clarkson finally scored, Lupul got 3 assists and Kessel sniped for 2. The only d-man to get a point was Phaneuf. All this while playing against a rookie goalie on a team currently 12th in the Eastern Conference.

 

[zeke]

Look at all the elite teams out there, and most of them have a tough 3rd pairing defender.

Penguins: Engelland/Burtuzzo
Blues: Polak
Bruins: Mcquaid
Kings: Greene
Blackhawks: Brookbank
Lightning: Gudas

Even the wings have a guy like Ericksson who plays physical and is willing to drop the gloves (not a 3rd pairing defender). So a guy like mark fraser is needed here and there

The only guys on the list there that are fulltim players are polak, greene, and ericsson, and they all play similar games as gunnar and ranger, not fraser.

The other goons on that list are in and out of the lineup, mostly out, and none of them are playing ahead of dmen as good as rielly or ranger.

 

[Asif16*]

Fraser is a career ahl goon.



Absolutely ridiculous to think a team shouldn't want both elite talents in the lineup.



Gunnar is nothing like the other two. He is a very good defensive dman with the mobility needed to defend against elite players, though, and an excellent shotblocker, too.




Ranger has struggled, and yet he's still better than fraser could ever hope to be. Unlike fraser he actually has the skill and mobility o recover from most of his mistakes.

And that says it all about your knowledge of fraser .

Again, im just gonna stop arguing. Its pointless

 

[Asif16*]

The only guys on the list there that are fulltim players are polak, greene, and ericsson, and they all play similar games as gunnar and ranger, not fraser.

The other goons on that list are in and out of the lineup, mostly out, and none of them are playing ahead of dmen as good as rielly or ranger.

Reilly is 10x better than ranger. Ranger sucks ass.

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

We still got out shot. Still had tons of odd man rushes. The difference is that our wingers were clicking. Clarkson finally scored, Lupul got 3 assists and Kessel sniped for 2. The only d-man to get a point was Phaneuf. All this while playing against a rookie goalie on a team currently 12th in the Eastern Conference.

You mean our offence, defence, and goaltending were better than theirs? You don't say?

 

[zeke]

Yeah toughest team..in terms of our forward groups. Our D is soft as muffins.

Phaneuf physicalty has been missing (mostly because he has been playing top Dman min). Which is fine

Gunnarson is a solid reliable defender, but way too soft.

Gardiner is soft.

Reilly is soft. (good positional defender, but soft)

Franson is probably the only defender that plays the body with fraser out.

Ranger occasinally plays the body, but other than that he's another gunnarson.

Our D is amongst the league leaders in hits and blocks. Phaneuf, franson, ranger are all in or near top10 in hits, while gunnar, phaneuf, franson are all near the top in blocks.

And rielly isn't soft in the least. The only guy that's soft at all back there is jake, and even he doesn't mind getting his nose dirty.

 

[Nasty Nazem]

Just noticed Gardiner played most out of Leafs defensemen (4 seconds more than Dion!). Got nearly 2 min of SH time too.

I think he's improved defensively this season. Just needs to start racking up some points now.

 

[The Legend]

Ya because the all-star free agent centers always sign in TO.

Got to dream somewhere. He's not just an all star - he's a superstar centre. And those don't become available very often.

 

[lLeafer]

So a reporter asked Kessel if he always tapes his wrist and Phil said "I don't want to talk about that." It looked like it was working pretty good tonight, so probably just regular wear and tear.. freaked me out a bit though!

 

[Banic]

So a reporter asked Kessel if he always tapes his wrist and Phil said "I don't want to talk about that." It looked like it was working pretty good tonight so probably just regular wear and tear.. freaked me out a bit though!

tough break up maybe? Probably hasn't had to turn to ol' lefty to often.

 

[The Legend]

if they are in "sheltered roles" that means they are odds are playing against players of less speed and less skill, just as he is. The problem comes into play when that player is a detriment to the team. He has not been, that cannot even be debated regardless of your belief on the plus/minus as a statistic. He is performing well in the role that Carlyle has chosen for him.. sheltered. He is cheap and does his job, something that is necessary in a cap world. It is what you ask from 4th liners and 3rd pairing d men.

2 million a season isn't cheap. Plus/minus isn't sustainable because quality of competition, luck, etc changes.

It's sad that injuries and/or infamous performances (Kostka game 1) are the only mechanisms to get Carlyle to insert his younger, faster, better defensemen.

 

[zeke]

if they are in "sheltered roles" that means they are odds are playing against players of less speed and less skill, just as he is. The problem comes into play when that player is a detriment to the team. He has not been, that cannot even be debated regardless of your belief on the plus/minus as a statistic. He is performing well in the role that Carlyle has chosen for him.. sheltered. He is cheap and does his job, something that is necessary in a cap world. It is what you ask from 4th liners and 3rd pairing d men.

That's not how sheltered works.

Having a player so bad that he needs that kind of shelter means the rest off your team has a much more difficult job to do in their minutes.


And paul ranger is a +5 in 21gms this year withiut receiving sheltered minutes, so why are you complaining about him?

Fraser is at +0 in sheltered minutes.

 

[Asif16*]

Our D is amongst the league leaders in hits and blocks. Phaneuf, franson, ranger are all in or near top10 in hits, while gunnar, phaneuf, franson are all near the top in blocks.

And rielly isn't soft in the least. The only guy that's soft at all back there is jake, and even he doesn't mind getting his nose dirty.

NEar top 10 in hits and blocks you say?

Well, with ranger out, and fraser in....we would be top 5 or something lol

 

[Kingstonian84*]

tough break up maybe? Probably hasn't had to turn to ol' lefty to often.

LMFAO I hear Kessel has one of the quickest releases in the NHL

 

[The Legend]

Lebda was a fast skater, not sure what skating has to do with it. It's not the only prerequisite to be a useful player. Give me a smart physical positional defenceman over a fast, risky, d man that pinches too much anyday.

What is a positional defenseman.

 

[The Legend]

Unlike the rest of the d-men he will fight. He clears the net better than just about anyone else. He was tied for 15th in the league last year for blocked shots. As aforementioned, speed is not everything.

Blocked shots is a terrible stat. All it means is that the opposition has the puck for long stretches and that you aren't able to get it.

 

[Celly Hard]

The only guys on the list there that are fulltim players are polak, greene, and ericsson, and they all play similar games as gunnar and ranger, not fraser.

The other goons on that list are in and out of the lineup, mostly out, and none of them are playing ahead of dmen as good as rielly or ranger.

Gudas is a regular, and is a top 3 Dman in Tampa. He'd be the second best dman on this team..

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Blocked shots is a terrible stat. All it means is that the opposition has the puck for long stretches and that you aren't able to get it.

That and it should only be used as a last resort, when you block a shot your allowing the other guy to set up time/space and fire off a shot. No its bad defense all around IMO, the best defense is to hound the guy and be right up in his face when he has the puck, either swipe it away or force him into making a bad play.

 

[zeke]

We still got out shot. Still gave up tons of odd man rushes. The difference is that our wingers were clicking. Clarkson finally scored, Lupul got 3 assists and Kessel sniped for 2. The only d-man to get a point was Phaneuf. All this while playing against a rookie goalie on a team currently 12th in the Eastern Conference.

Amazing what a mobile skilled defense can do for a team's offense.

Can even make them look much more explosive against a bubble team like nyi than we did against a bottom feeder like buffalo.

Oh wait - our offense also exploded that 2nd game vs buffalo after fraser was injured, didn't it? Weird.

 

[Banic]

That's not how sheltered works.

Having a player so bad that he needs that kind of shelter means the rest off your team has a much more difficult job to do in their minutes.


And paul ranger is a +5 in 21gms this year withiut receiving sheltered minutes, so why are you complaining about him?

Fraser is at +0 in sheltered minutes.

I'm not complaining about either of them if you've read any of my posts. I personally don't dislike Ranger and find that he gets far too much hate on this site. To cite sheltered minutes then to say that his gameplay downgrades the rest of the team is fallacious. You will find you are in a minority that finds Fraser "so bad", and there is a reason for that. He is not the whipping boy of the management or the media, only zeke.

 

[Asif16*]

That's not how sheltered works.

Having a player so bad that he needs that kind of shelter means the rest off your team has a much more difficult job to do in their minutes.


And paul ranger is a +5 in 21gms this year withiut receiving sheltered minutes, so why are you complaining about him?

Fraser is at +0 in sheltered minutes.

Fraser has played a whopping 6 games, while ranger has played every single game. I can guarantee you that if fraser played every single game like ranger, he would be a better defender and have a better +/-

Did you even watch the first two games of the season? He played solid and was one of our better defenders. Unfortunetely he gets injured in the second game.

And why are you bringing up +/- for ranger? I thought +/- were a crap statistic? smh

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Unreal game tonight, I sat directly behind Carlyle and the bench tonight!

 

[Banic]

LMFAO I hear Kessel has one of the quickest releases in the NHL

I literally LOLed. Well played good sir.

 

[Banic]

Amazing what a mobile skilled defense can do for a team's offense.

Can even make them look much more explosive against a bubble team like nyi than we did against a bottom feeder like buffalo.

Oh wait - our offense also exploded that 2nd game vs buffalo after fraser was injured, didn't it? Weird.

So explosive then that he wasn't on the ice for at least 3 of the goals apparently (+1 on the night). I guess he must have used that crazy speed to get his arse back on the pine quicktime.

I also don't know if you've noticed that Buffalo is a much different team now that they have new management staff.