Post-Game Talk: Leafs Win! 5-2 over Isles!

[zeke]

Edmonton vs. Toronto, Games Missed:

Top-3:

EDM (9): Hall 7, RNH 2, Eberle 0
TOR (4): Lupul 2, JVR 2, Kessel 0

2nd-3:

EDM (17): Gagner 13, Perron 4, Hemsky 0
TOR (23): Bozak 10, Clarkson 10, Kadri 3

3rd-3:

EDM (7): Smyth 7, Yakupov 0, Gordon 0
TOR (20): Kulemin 12, Bolland 8, Raymond 0

4th-3/Extras:

EDM (58): McIntyre 23, Hamilton 11, Pitlick 11, Joensuu 11, Gazdic 2, Acton 0, Lander 0, Jones 0, Omark 0, Eager 0, Brown 0
TOR (14): McLaren 10, Orr 2, Ashton 2, McClement 0, Smithson 0, Smith 0, Holland 0, Bodie 0, Leivo 0, Broll 0


Top-2:

EDM (8): Schultz 8, Petry 0
TOR (0): Phaneuf 0, Gunnar 0

2nd-2:

EDM (2): Belov 2, Ference 0
TOR (0): Franson 0, Gardiner 0

3rd-3/Extras:

EDM (5): Grebeshkov 4, Larsen 1, Smid 0, Schultz 0, Potter 0, Fedun 0
TOR (14): Fraser 14, Rielly 0, Ranger 0


Starting Goalie:

EDM (3): Dubnyk 3
TOR (0): Bernier 0

Backup Goalies:

EDM (8): Labarbera 0, Bachman 8
TOR (0): Reimer 0



Top-9 F / Top-4 D / Starting G:

EDM: 46
TOR: 47

Bottom Liners / Bottom Pairs / Backup Goalies:

EDM: 71
TOR: 28

Note: Oilers have played 2 more games as a team than the Leafs, giving them more time to accumulate games missed.

 

[zeke]

Well dont tell that to me. Tell that to Zeke

+/- is for chumps.

I used it against the guy who was using plus minus to praise Fraser, by showing him that by his own logic he should stop criticizing Ranger because of his +/-.

 

[zeke]

Smith has earned the early edge over Holland, it seems.

practice lines this morning:

JVR - Kadri - Kessel
Lupul - Smith - Clarkson
Raymond - Holland - Kulemin
McClement - Smithson - Orr
Ashton - Bozak - McLaren

Like seeing McLaren booted off the 4th line. Smithson isn't very good, but he's worlds better than McLaren. Wouldn't mind seeing an Ashton-Smithson-McClement 4th line, really.


and the bad news.....

David Alter @DavidAlter590
Mark Fraser has stayed on for practice.

crap.

 

[Ari91]

On the replay you could see that whoever it was got Ranger in the face with his helmet after the whistle. Wasn't clear whether it was an intentional headbutt or not but Ranger obviously didn't appreciate it one way or the other

Yeah I noticed the headbutt but I mean, he made an obvious retaliation right in front of the ref which wasn't the 'smart' thing to do. Anyway, made for an entertaining moment for me

 

[Mr Scarface*]

outside of john scott thinking he can take a regular shift in the nhl...taveres face first into the ref's crotch is probably the funniest thing i've seen this year.

f'ing eh on the win but leafs played a pretty good HOCKEY game last night.

You already know the Maple Leafs are on their game this season. Just we was last season already. This is going to be a hell of a ride. Carlyle's Hell's angels are ready to drop everybody and anybody out there. Some don't even dare to look at some of our players. They are scared of Colton Orr, Frazer McLaren, Mark Fraser, Dion Phaneuf, Dave Bolland and David Clarkson.

 

[JackJ]

Morgan Rielly looked fantastic last night jumping into the play. Hope he doesn't sit again anytime soon.

Phaneuf Gunnar
Gardiner Rielly
Fraser Franson

 

[frankthetank91]

Smith has earned the early edge over Holland, it seems.

practice lines this morning:

JVR - Kadri - Kessel
Lupul - Smith - Clarkson
Raymond - Holland - Kulemin
McClement - Smithson - Orr
Ashton - Bozak - McLaren

Like seeing McLaren booted off the 4th line. Smithson isn't very good, but he's worlds better than McLaren. Wouldn't mind seeing an Ashton-Smithson-McClement 4th line, really.


and the bad news.....

David Alter @DavidAlter590
Mark Fraser has stayed on for practice.

crap.

Pretty much what I expected. Wonder what happens when Bozak returns though.

 

[Hibachi]

Holland played good, but Smith really took the bull by the horns and seemed to have solid chemistry with that line.

 

[7even]

Phaneuf Gunnar
Gardiner Rielly
Fraser Franson

Gardiner really needs Franson IMO. Swap Rielly and Franson and that's alright I guess. Not the biggest Fraser/Ranger fan.

 

[boller4president]

The isles looked disorganized the entire game. I don't know if it's them being poorly coached or whatever but they better get it corrected soon because they are all-in after the Vanek trade.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Missed the game entirely ... Suffice to say it was a good one?

Was it the first full one you've missed this year?

 

[BertCorbeau]

Was it the first full one you've missed this year?

Nope .. I've missed a handful for one reason or another

I see what you're doing though

 

[HarrisonFord]

Nope .. I've missed a handful for one reason or another

I see what you're doing though

Thought I found the Clarkson scoring solution

 

[Confucius]

+/- is for chumps.

I used it against the guy who was using plus minus to praise Fraser, by showing him that by his own logic he should stop criticizing Ranger because of his +/-.

I see, just because the opposition has a tendency to score when you're on the ice means nada. Got it

Goalies may as well disregard GAA and save percentage as well, means squat.

 

[The Legend]

I see, just because the opposition has a tendency to score when you're on the ice means nada. Got it

Goalies may as well disregard GAA and save percentage as well, means squat.

Save percentage is a lot more related to goalie skill than +/-.

 

[TOG26]

I see, just because the opposition has a tendency to score when you're on the ice means nada. Got it

Quality of the competition you are play against, plus the amount of shots you give up, and which zone you are normally playing in, are far better for analysis then +/-.

+/- is a team stat. If your team is at the top of the standings usually you don't have many minus guys on the team solely due to goal differentials.

 

[RaskY]

I really hope McClement doesn't actually get bumped off the 3rd line come game time...That makes no sense...Along with Kule and Raymond, that's been our best line the past couple of games.

 

[Hibachi]

You can't just use +/- on its own and come to a conclusion a certain player is better, just doesn't work that way. You have to take into account quality of competition, so for example you can't compare first pairing dmens to a third pairing dmen.

Its like saying Fraser is better then Phaneuf because he was +22 last year, its silly.

 

[Ari91]

I see, just because the opposition has a tendency to score when you're on the ice means nada. Got it

Goalies may as well disregard GAA and save percentage as well, means squat.

The theory behind the stat is meaningful but the calculation of it isn't entirely. The numbers don't reflect who is actively involved in a play that leads to a goal against. The numbers don't reflect how many guys just jump onto the ice the moment a goal is scored. The numbers don't reflect quality of competition. Not every goal is scored because a team is playing the cycle and preventing another team from changing their lines. A guy can make a bad line change that leads to an odd man rush for the opposition (which isn't uncommon). They score...guess who gets the minus on that play? It's not the guy who made a bad change, it's the sucker that had to take his place on the ice.

If a player were a -18, it's reasonable enough to suggest that it isn't just some back luck that is the reason for it. It's likely that the player isn't doing enough defensively on the ice and isn't able to score his way out of his defensive lapses.

 

[Confucius]

Quality of the competition you are play against, plus the amount of shots you give up, and which zone you are normally playing in, are far better for analysis then +/-.

+/- is a team stat. If your team is at the top of the standings usually you don't have many minus guys on the team solely due to goal differentials.

Fair enough but if we are only comparing plus / minus to guys on the same team...
And to refine it even further only compare guys on the same team playing the same position. Nevermind the fact Rielly has already played 5 less games and plays the fewest minutes per game amongst the Dmen. A disproportionate number of goals are scored while Rielly is on the ice, hence he deservedly sees the press box.

 

[Confucius]

The theory behind the stat is meaningful but the calculation of it isn't entirely. The numbers don't reflect who is actively involved in a play that leads to a goal against. The numbers don't reflect how many guys just jump onto the ice the moment a goal is scored. The numbers don't reflect quality of competition. Not every goal is scored because a team is playing the cycle and preventing another team from changing their lines. A guy can make a bad line change that leads to an odd man rush for the opposition (which isn't uncommon). They score...guess who gets the minus on that play? It's not the guy who made a bad change, it's the sucker that had to take his place on the ice.

If a player were a -18, it's reasonable enough to suggest that it isn't just some back luck that is the reason for it. It's likely that the player isn't doing enough defensively on the ice and isn't able to score his way out of his defensive lapses.

like johnny T did last night? went for the bench while we attacked and scored, yep he sure knows when to bail. Anyhow yeah that happens but over the course of a season I'm sure it balances out.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Didn't reimer miss like a week because of flu/neck hurt?

 

[Ari91]

like johnny T did last night? went for the bench while we attacked and scored, yep he sure knows when to bail. Anyhow yeah that happens but over the course of a season I'm sure it balances out.

Not necessarily. Like I said, the numbers don't factor in everything. It is an extremely simplistic calculation that uses zero context. The more simplistic the method of calculation, the less reliable the stat is. For example, when looking at the body of work of a goalie, the GA stat doesn't really say much. When you look at the GAA and SV%, that brings a lot more context to the simplistic nature of a GA stat. Allowing 100 goals doesn't mean anything. Allowing 100 goals on 1000 shots vs 100 goals on 3000 shots says a lot more than the number of goals itself.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Didn't reimer miss like a week because of flu/neck hurt?

he was the backup for those games though so he didn't miss them

 

[tamle]

[nhl]489767[/nhl]
aside from how nervous the guy always appear in front of camera, anyone catches what he said briefly about Randy toward the end? which made everyone laughs.