Proposal: Leafs - Wild Big Trade

[IceBoxHockey]

Minnesota HAS to move one of their D and the reason they haven't done it yet is because no GM has been stupid enough to offer a package anywhere near this value.

It's like bidding on a contract. You got all the successful businesses coming in at $1M and then some nutso offers $50M.

No one else was anywhere close and you could have bid $1.5M and won the bid, but you overpaid by $48.5M because you bid "what was fair" instead of what was smart.

Leverage IS VERY IMPORTANT.

Minnesota is going to lose Spurgeon for NOTHING in the expansion draft. They'll take Polak + 2nd eventually you just got to get them desperate enough.

We won't lose Spurgeon, and sure as hell not for Polak and a 2nd. We would get a much better deal if he was on the table. He will be protected anyways. If we end up losing a Dman its going to be either Dumba or Scandella. We certainly don't have to trade one either. Our GM plans on going the 7/3 route for the expansion, so if we trade one we most likely will lose ANOTHER one to Vegas. Now tell me how losing 2 top 4 D is a smart move for the organization?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

tanev is signed for a while JVR is a ufa soon i dont think the value is remotely comparable

Tanev is signed for two more years than JVR. Not a massive difference.

 

[Maukkis]

Minnesota HAS to move one of their D and the reason they haven't done it yet is because no GM has been stupid enough to offer a package anywhere near this value.

It's like bidding on a contract. You got all the successful businesses coming in at $1M and then some nutso offers $50M.

No one else was anywhere close and you could have bid $1.5M and won the bid, but you overpaid by $48.5M because you bid "what was fair" instead of what was smart.

Leverage IS VERY IMPORTANT.

Minnesota is going to lose Spurgeon for NOTHING in the expansion draft. They'll take Polak + 2nd eventually you just got to get them desperate enough.

And then they proceed to lose another of their good defensemen? Think again.

Not to mention that every team, including Toronto themselves are beating that offer to death.

 

[Menzinger]

Would the Leafs 1st entice Wild fans enough for one of their younger guys?

if JVR is amazing why does Toronto want to trade him

why wont he sign

Age range doesn't fit in with rest of Leafs core. And Leafs will need to save cap spae for their big three young forwards too

 

[Wabit]

Would the Leafs 1st entice Wild fans enough for one of their younger guys?

Probably not until after the Playoffs. Draft picks are nice, but don't win any games this year.

 

[rynryn]

We should sticky something in the trade proposals that says the Wild will trade two of their D or none of their D.

Draisaitl and Nurse for Scandella and Spurgeon.? IDK. is that crazy? Oilers D would improve sooo much though. is nurse exempt?

 

[Weast]

We should sticky something in the trade proposals that says the Wild will trade two of their D or none of their D.

Draisaitl and Nurse for Scandella and Spurgeon.? IDK. is that crazy? Oilers D would improve sooo much though. is nurse exempt?

Oilers would say no. Draisaitl is probably their second best forward this season and Nurse is looking much better this season

 

[rynryn]

Oilers would say no. Draisaitl is probably their second best forward this season and Nurse is looking much better this season

i'm sure they'd say no. I didn't think Nurse was doing all that great. He has potential and i always advise patience though. Also I'd never think it'd be that simple...always tweaking going on.

I've told them they should keep Drai on pretty much every "value of" thread that comes up.

Even with the loss of him though their D would improve very dramatically and honestly I don't think the Wild would consider it at all but for the whole "lose one guy for nothing" scenario that's likely going to play out.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

We should sticky something in the trade proposals that says the Wild will trade two of their D or none of their D.

Draisaitl and Nurse for Scandella and Spurgeon.? IDK. is that crazy? Oilers D would improve sooo much though. is nurse exempt?

They'd have the same expansion issues we're having now.

 

[rynryn]

They'd have the same expansion issues we're having now.

yeah i keep forgetting Klefbom has been around that long. but couldn't they go 4+4?

 

[HollaHaula]

Toronto fan:

"Polak is garbage!! Can't even play D anymore! Shouldn't even be in the NHL!"

.
.
.

"We'll give you Polak and a 2nd for Spurgeon."

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

yeah i keep forgetting Klefbom has been around that long. but couldn't they go 4+4?

Sekera is a must protect. They'd still have to leave one of the youngins available.

 

[AKL]

Tanev is signed for two more years than JVR. Not a massive difference.

To be honest two years is a pretty huge difference in this day and age.

 

[paragon]

Kasperi Kapanen is not a blue chip prospect. Kind of funny some people claim he is, but at the same time he's THE throw-in in pretty much every Leafs trade proposal.

Just look at the front page. Kapanen for:
Panarin
Tanev
Spurgeon
Ekblad
and the list goes on

Never seen a fan base so anxious to get rid of their "best" prospect. Funnily enough I never saw a thread last year with Nylander as a throw-in. And if other fanbases said Nylander Leafs fans were quick to rush in screaming untouchable.

 

[araisarena]

A point per game in the AHL first round draft pick who is 20 years old isn't blue chip? The same to score the game winner in the world junior gold medal game? Don't worry about what us fans want to throw in to our mock proposals worry about watching the games

Kasperi Kapanen is not a blue chip prospect. Kind of funny some people claim he is, but at the same time he's THE throw-in in pretty much every Leafs trade proposal.

Just look at the front page. Kapanen for:
Panarin
Tanev
Spurgeon
Ekblad
and the list goes on

Never seen a fan base so anxious to get rid of their "best" prospect. Funnily enough I never saw a thread last year with Nylander as a throw-in. And if other fanbases said Nylander Leafs fans were quick to rush in screaming untouchable.

 

[BWDude]

Kasperi Kapanen is not a blue chip prospect. Kind of funny some people claim he is, but at the same time he's THE throw-in in pretty much every Leafs trade proposal.

Just look at the front page. Kapanen for:
Panarin
Tanev
Spurgeon
Ekblad
and the list goes on

Never seen a fan base so anxious to get rid of their "best" prospect. Funnily enough I never saw a thread last year with Nylander as a throw-in. And if other fanbases said Nylander Leafs fans were quick to rush in screaming untouchable.

It's cause he's a non core asset that has value that other teams actually want?

Should we offer our big 3? Core players that we would rightfully ask for other teams top guys and would never be traded?

Guys that we would ACTUALLY like to throw away? Want a Hunwick? Polak? How about a Bozak? Smith? Noone wants those.

So that leaves us with guys with expendable value.

 

[paragon]

A point per game in the AHL first round draft pick who is 20 years old isn't blue chip? The same to score the game winner in the world junior gold medal game? Don't worry about what us fans want to throw in to our mock proposals worry about watching the games

I'm a Finn. Kapanen was penciled in as a first liner for the last WJC and he was first dropped to the third line and was so invisible that plenty of people wanted him benched. And similar to Crosby in Vancouver the golden goal changed the legacy of his tournament.

Also PPG in the AHL has no bearing on how a prospect is going to do in the NHL. Finland has had tons of PPG AHL players who weren't good enough for the NHL or turned out to be NHL tweeners. Players like Janne Pesonen, Ilari Filppula, Toni Rajala, Ville Leino, Teemu Pulkkinen, Markus Granlund, Petri Kontiola and Jarkko Immonen. There are plenty more, but that's just give a small sample. I think the only ones to be PPG in the AHL and pan out are Mikko Koivu, Valtteri Filppula, Mikael Granlund and Mikko Rantanen.

I think Kapanen has the same upside as Markus Granlund and that's not a slight at Kapanen, because Granlund is a NHL player.

 

[paragon]

It's cause he's a non core asset that has value that other teams actually want?

Should we offer our big 3? Core players that we would rightfully ask for other teams top guys and would never be traded?

Guys that we would ACTUALLY like to throw away? Want a Hunwick? Polak? How about a Bozak? Smith? Noone wants those.

So that leaves us with guys with expendable value.

I get it and I agree why he's thrown in the proposals. But let's not call him a blue chip prospect, because he's not one.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

To be honest two years is a pretty huge difference in this day and age.

One guy is being called a soon to be UFA and the other signed long term when in fact there is a 2 years difference. Not like one is locked up for 8 years and the other 2.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I'm a Finn. Kapanen was penciled in as a first liner for the last WJC and he was first dropped to the third line and was so invisible that plenty of people wanted him benched. And similar to Crosby in Vancouver the golden goal changed the legacy of his tournament.

Also PPG in the AHL has no bearing on how a prospect is going to do in the NHL. Finland has had tons of PPG AHL players who weren't good enough for the NHL or turned out to be NHL tweeners. Players like Janne Pesonen, Ilari Filppula, Toni Rajala, Ville Leino, Teemu Pulkkinen, Markus Granlund, Petri Kontiola and Jarkko Immonen. There are plenty more, but that's just give a small sample. I think the only ones to be PPG in the AHL and pan out are Mikko Koivu, Valtteri Filppula, Mikael Granlund and Mikko Rantanen.

I think Kapanen has the same upside as Markus Granlund and that's not a slight at Kapanen, because Granlund is a NHL player.

Did all of those players go PPG at age 20? While also being a 200 foot player.
Kapp is going to suprised a lot of people I think. He seems to have gotten his drive and consistency figured out this year.

 

[xxreact9]

Why it makes sense:

The Wild could really use some offensive help to secure a playoff spot and JVR would be an offensive upgrade to both Parise and Zucker in their top six LW situation.

They also get the benefit of a blue chip RW prospect in Kapanen and a functional RHD shutdown replacement in Polak until season's end.

Leafs secure their top 4 with Rielly, Spurgeon, Gardiner, Zaitsev.

This is a good way to secure a lottery pick every season forever.

Leafs don't need a kneejerk trade adding a non top pairing defender. This would be similar to Isles signing Boychuk+Leddy in the same summer, which resulted in their franchise being in an eternal loop of finishing around 8th place with no real chance of a cup, and no real chance of adding the talent they need on the wings and blueline to compete for a cup.

Isles rebuilt too fast and will never win because of it. The leafs will fall victim to the same thing if they do a trade like this. They need Liljegren, they need at least two more top pairing upside defenseman that are almost impossible to acquire outside of drafting them in the top-5 or getting lucky from a late pick, which you cannot reasonably count on.

The leafs don't need to come in 8th. They need to build a team that will finish in the top-4 seeds year after year after year, and they are capable of doing it with this group. Just don't trade for Jared Spurgeon and come in 8th place.

Let it ride. Get 2 more good draft picks. Your core players are all 18-21, they aren't even remotely ready for playoff success anyways.

 

[4thline]

I'm a Finn. Kapanen was penciled in as a first liner for the last WJC and he was first dropped to the third line and was so invisible that plenty of people wanted him benched. And similar to Crosby in Vancouver the golden goal changed the legacy of his tournament.

Also PPG in the AHL has no bearing on how a prospect is going to do in the NHL. Finland has had tons of PPG AHL players who weren't good enough for the NHL or turned out to be NHL tweeners. Players like Janne Pesonen, Ilari Filppula, Toni Rajala, Ville Leino, Teemu Pulkkinen, Markus Granlund, Petri Kontiola and Jarkko Immonen. There are plenty more, but that's just give a small sample. I think the only ones to be PPG in the AHL and pan out are Mikko Koivu, Valtteri Filppula, Mikael Granlund and Mikko Rantanen.

I think Kapanen has the same upside as Markus Granlund and that's not a slight at Kapanen, because Granlund is a NHL player.

A bunch of Finnish 4th rounders and nobodies producing at 25 or 30 means nothing, I've already posted the modern comparables in the thread. Throw in JT Miller and Tomas Tatar as the players that most closely compared to his 19 year old year. He not be a "blue chip" but he's a damn good prospect that is a good a bet to be a top 9 players is there is, a solid chance of being top 6, and upside as a 1st liner but that's more unlikely.

Also, ppg in the AHL at 20 means a fair bit lol, here's every player that's been within +/- 10% since the 04 lockout (first rounders underlined, players that were at least top 9 bold
Luke Adam
David Krecji
JT Miller
Claude Giroux
Kris Versteeg
Bobby Ryan
Artem Anisimov
Jiri Tlusty + Chris Tieney(1 ppg)
Sergei Kostitsyn
Ryan Spooner
Mikael Granlund
Robert Nillson
Tyler Ennis
Nazem Kadri
Tyler Kennedy
Andrei Loktionov
Dustin Boyd
Jason Zucker
Sean Couturier

 

[TLeafsFan]

This is a good way to secure a lottery pick every season forever.

Leafs don't need a kneejerk trade adding a non top pairing defender. This would be similar to Isles signing Boychuk+Leddy in the same summer, which resulted in their franchise being in an eternal loop of finishing around 8th place with no real chance of a cup, and no real chance of adding the talent they need on the wings and blueline to compete for a cup.

Isles rebuilt too fast and will never win because of it. The leafs will fall victim to the same thing if they do a trade like this. They need Liljegren, they need at least two more top pairing upside defenseman that are almost impossible to acquire outside of drafting them in the top-5 or getting lucky from a late pick, which you cannot reasonably count on.

The leafs don't need to come in 8th. They need to build a team that will finish in the top-4 seeds year after year after year, and they are capable of doing it with this group. Just don't trade for Jared Spurgeon and come in 8th place.

Let it ride. Get 2 more good draft picks. Your core players are all 18-21, they aren't even remotely ready for playoff success anyways.

Ummm, the Wild seem to be doing pretty darn good with Spurgeon as their legit #2.

Give up on Lilgegren. It ain't happening, nor is a top pick in the 2018 draft.

If anything, it's Foote as the D selected by Leafs in the 2017 draft.

 

[daveleaf]

This is a good way to secure a lottery pick every season forever.

Leafs don't need a kneejerk trade adding a non top pairing defender. This would be similar to Isles signing Boychuk+Leddy in the same summer, which resulted in their franchise being in an eternal loop of finishing around 8th place with no real chance of a cup, and no real chance of adding the talent they need on the wings and blueline to compete for a cup.

Isles rebuilt too fast and will never win because of it. The leafs will fall victim to the same thing if they do a trade like this. They need Liljegren, they need at least two more top pairing upside defenseman that are almost impossible to acquire outside of drafting them in the top-5 or getting lucky from a late pick, which you cannot reasonably count on.

The leafs don't need to come in 8th. They need to build a team that will finish in the top-4 seeds year after year after year, and they are capable of doing it with this group. Just don't trade for Jared Spurgeon and come in 8th place.

Let it ride. Get 2 more good draft picks. Your core players are all 18-21, they aren't even remotely ready for playoff success anyways.

Amen man.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Spurgeon is a 27 year old all situations top pairing D-man. If we want to acquire him, it'll cost us.

With that said, I do agree with the opinion that Leafs don't need to rush into a decision when it comes to strengthening their defense. They still have the time to wait and see how things develop, and strike when there's opportunity.