Series Talk: Leafs vs Jackets - Cup quest begins...Camp is open!!

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Just saying...

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And year before that

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his argument wasn't even based on being the Blues best player. It was literally "this defenseman won the cup so defense must win cups"

 

[Stephen]

Just saying...

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And year before that

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I'm not making the argument that some positions don't matter when it comes to winning championships. That's Dekes' project.

 

[Morbo]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you're condescendingly explaining this concept to Alex Pietrangelo on why he was able to lift the Stanley Cup last year.

"Alex, before you skate around the rink with that cup, I just want to let you know that Binnington and David Perron are why you're celebrating right now."

well I don't know about Perron but Binnington? absolutely.

 

[Stephen]

his argument wasn't even based on being the Blues best player. It was literally "this defenseman won the cup so defense must win cups"

I'm just refuting the notion that "forwards and goalies" win the cup, per Dekes' in depth research, without thinking about the latest Stanley Cup champion where the guy lifting the cup played nearly 25 minutes a night and scored 19 points in 26 games.

 

[Stephen]

well I don't know about Perron but Binnington? absolutely.

I think we've already gone very far down the wrong road if we're having a conversation about whether some positions matter when it comes to winning a championship.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm not making the argument that some positions don't matter when it comes to winning championships. That's Dekes' project.

I have never said "some positions don't matter when it comes to winning championships". I literally said the opposite in my previous post. Don't put words in other people's mouths. In response to somebody endlessly claiming that "defense wins championships" in every post, I responded with the counter to that; offense and goaltending do. They are the most important. My statement, unlike his, is actually supported by facts. That doesn't mean you completely throw out a whole position and its impact, and it doesn't mean that every cup winner follows the same formula.

 

[Stephen]

I have never said "some positions don't matter when it comes to winning championships". I literally said the opposite in my previous post. Don't put words in other people's mouths. In response to somebody endlessly claiming that "defense wins championships" in every post, I responded with the counter to that; offense and goaltending do. They are the most important. My statement, unlike his, is actually supported by facts. That doesn't mean you completely throw out a whole position and its impact, and it doesn't mean that every cup winner follows the same formula.

It doesn't. Offense and goaltending do.

In a championship run, any position can step up and be the main reason why a team wins.

 

[HolyCrap]

Sure you can praise Tavares but did you not see Leafs great Marty Marincin out there to?

Magnificent

I seen him there. Lost my appetite. Ugh.

 

[Coachcorner]

Is y'all more for that Hyman - Tavares - Marner great line (in the past och in the present) (great working line, defensively and offensively and remember marner giving that line that huge star power blast for so long?) or is y'all more for that Hyman - Matthews - Marner line...? I for one like a Mikheyev - Matthews - Nylander line better. Also am for that warrior/cup deciding great line in Hyman Tavares Marner. That's that key line for me. Marner has played his best defensive /selke type of games with that there line. Would be a killa for scrilla for us sire.

 

[Dekes For Days]

In a championship run, any position can step up and be the main reason why a team wins.

Yes, it can. I have never said otherwise. However, cup-winning teams over the last 12 years have been, on average, better in offense and goaltending than defense, in both the regular season and postseason. That doesn't mean that a team can't win by being elite defensively, but it does counter the idea that "defense wins championships".

You quoted my post. Good. Now go read the post I'm replying to in that, and maybe you can explain why you've singled me out and misrepresented my (and only my) position.

 

[kesleaf]

Holy shit. Just saw his goals from last year. His shot is LETHAL. Pretty good one-timer too. With him continuously practicing on the 3rd line, I'm confident he's going to be playing in this series now.

Our dark-horse

 

[Dekes For Days]

I know it's the OHL, but it's crazy how many different ways he can score. Wrist shot, one-timer, backhand, dangles, dirty net goals, off turnovers, rebounds, etc. Very versatile goal-scorer.

 

[stickty111]

Offense and goaltending wins championships.
The team that has the the best defence goes out early in the playoffs or never even makes the playoffs.
There was a time for a few seasons where Carolina/Calgary had the best defensive cores, and neither of them even came close to winning ever.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Offense and goaltending wins championships.
The team that has the the best defence goes out early in the playoffs or never even makes the playoffs.
There was a time for a few seasons where Carolina/Calgary had the best defensive cores, and neither of them even came close to winning ever.

Any team who wins the Cup needs the offense because it's goals that win games.

However they also need their Goalie to stop the other team from scoring goals against them.

So I guess it's 50/50 in both categories when it comes to winning.

 

[IPS]

I have never said "some positions don't matter when it comes to winning championships". I literally said the opposite in my previous post. Don't put words in other people's mouths. In response to somebody endlessly claiming that "defense wins championships" in every post, I responded with the counter to that; offense and goaltending do. They are the most important. My statement, unlike his, is actually supported by facts. That doesn't mean you completely throw out a whole position and its impact, and it doesn't mean that every cup winner follows the same formula.

I don't necessarily agree with your argument in its entirety but I can appreciate you taking the time to construct it with stats and facts.

All the opposing side does is repeat dumb cliches ad nauseum and pass it off as some kind of undeniable evidence.

 

[Kurtz]

In my observation, positional importance in the playoffs is thus:

1) Goalie
2) Centres
3) Top-4 dmen
4) Wings

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Offense and goaltending wins championships.
The team that has the the best defence goes out early in the playoffs or never even makes the playoffs.
There was a time for a few seasons where Carolina/Calgary had the best defensive cores, and neither of them even came close to winning ever.

You mostly need a defense which is good enough to not cost you games. I do not think you are going to win many playoff games by completely suffocating an offense, because playoff offenses are too good to suffocate, but you can't have a defense which is incapable of doing anything or giving the team extra chances. Gardiner did that a lot and he killed us. Our defense still does it probably more than it should, but it has improved a lot, and with our offense and a good Andersen, we have the requisite elements to win a Cup.

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I have never said "some positions don't matter when it comes to winning championships". I literally said the opposite in my previous post. Don't put words in other people's mouths. In response to somebody endlessly claiming that "defense wins championships" in every post, I responded with the counter to that; offense and goaltending do. They are the most important. My statement, unlike his, is actually supported by facts. That doesn't mean you completely throw out a whole position and its impact, and it doesn't mean that every cup winner follows the same formula.

Thats full of B.S. Lets play five forwards in the series against Columbus and see how you like that. Not a chance in hell you can cherry pick some trumped up stats that will ever make me value defense over offense over goaltending. There is a chemistry in team. It follows all areas and of play for all players with a system to instill a trust in knowing what you teammates are going to do. It is all undoubtedly equally important. If you want to reinvent the game thinking you can with a persistent argument about it giver’. Its not something i would waste my time arguing about with you.
Wow

 

[stickty111]

You are full of B.S

What's wrong with what he said. His stance is valid and he backed it with strong points.
The opposing users just say illogical stuff because it suits their narrative.

 

[stickty111]

You mostly need a defense which is good enough to not cost you games. I do not think you are going to win many playoff games by completely suffocating an offense, because playoff offenses are too good to suffocate, but you can't have a defense which is incapable of doing anything or giving the team extra chances. Gardiner did that a lot and he killed us. Our defense still does it probably more than it should, but it has improved a lot, and with our offense and a good Andersen, we have the requisite elements to win a Cup.

Yup you want your defence to be respectable. If you get an elite offense, a good goaltender, and even just decent defense as in 15th or so in the league, your good enough.
The issue is a few users on here think defence is the only thing that matters, even if your offense is the worst in the league, and the goalie is bad. Last time I checked you still need to score goals to win.

Our defence under Keefe was decent with a couple meltdowns sprinked in, which I blame more on lack of practice time then anything else.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

What's wrong with what he said. His stance is valid and he backed it with strong points.
The opposing users just say illogical stuff because it suits their narrative.

If someone wants to ramble on about offense and Goaltending as being more important than defense do so, have right at it. System in its infancy, the very beginning of it is completely and totally the about defense and staying in position to defend and gap control and puck support.
System is defense. So I’m supposed to let someone come in rattling off that system is insignificant when it is primarily defense and basic hockey.
Thats what i find so so wrong about the whole pile of crap. Its crap.
I have no narrative and I don’t like narrative/agenda but crazy talk is crazy. You need it all and it needs to be good to win. Keefe improved all aspects of the team game thats great. I know we can score. What were we second in the league. Barely hanging on to a playoff spot at the pause because they played unpredictable and Freddy was off for a bit. Erratic is likely good description. That potent offense wasn’t setting us apart in the playoff race was it. You need all working smoothly to be good. Some nights goalies steal it, some nights defense is awesome,some nights offense is bailing out both etc and many combinations.

 

[stickty111]

If someone wants to ramble on about offense and Goaltending as being more important than defense do so, have right at it. System in its infancy, the very beginning of it is completely and totally the about defense and staying in position to defend and gap control and puck support.
System is defense. So I’m supposed to let someone come in rattling off that system is insignificant when it is primarily defense and basic hockey.
Thats what i find so so wrong about the whole pile of crap. Its crap.

Not sure what your arguing here. Look defense is important, but it's not the be all end all as a certain someone likes to portray it as. You need to score and get a goalie to stop pucks. Those 2 ingredients play a bigger part to winning.

You can't win a game 0 to -1.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Not sure what your arguing here. Look defense is important, but it's not the be all end all as a certain someone likes to portray it as. You need to score and get a goalie to stop pucks. Those 2 ingredients play a bigger part to winning.

You can't win a game 0 to -1.

We were second highest scoring team in the league at the pause and were on pins and needles as to getting in the playoffs at 72 games. Most teams can not out score their defensive of goaltending problems. We can and we have

 

[LeafsNation75]

Not sure what your arguing here. Look defense is important, but it's not the be all end all as a certain someone likes to portray it as. You need to score and get a goalie to stop pucks. Those 2 ingredients play a bigger part to winning.

You can't win a game 0 to -1.

The funny thing when talking about Columbus defense is that in the regular season when Toronto defeated them on October 4, 2019 which was their second game the Blue Jackets season opener, Zach Werenski was -1 and Seth Jones finished even with 0 points.

Plus it was in that game when Marner scored his 2nd goal against them when he went right around Werenski and this great Blue Jackets defense everyone keeps talking about.