Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign RW Max Ellis to a 2 Year ELC

[acrobaticgoalie]

hockey is a contact sport so i don't understand how anyone can believe size doesn't factor in a persons ability to play well at the sport

i;m guessing Dube believes if he throws enough smurfs at the wall one will stick , lol

That mentality is what had teams asleep at the wheel when it came to guys like Fleury, St.Louis and Gaudreau. Not saying this kid is similar to them but i would always bet on skill. Short guys can be a pain in the ass to play against too. St.Louis was pretty damn hard to knock over.

 

[hotpaws]

That mentality is what had teams asleep at the wheel when it came to guys like Fleury, St.Louis and Gaudreau. Not saying this kid is similar to them but i would always bet on skill. Short guys can be a pain in the ass to play against too. St.Louis was pretty damn hard to knock over.

it's the same mentality that led to Kane being a 1st o/a pick

if a smaller player shows enough by his draft year he'll be taken and taken high and no one's saying not to draft small players , the problem becomes when that's pretty much all Dubie drafts and then targets more smurfs in trades and undrafted college ufa's

 

[Leaf Fans]

since when is size a useless stat ?

he also isn't very productive as a 22 year old but hey let's pimp him and the team for signing him for a few days and then forget he was ever in the system , lol

He is the modern day Steve Sullivan.

 

[hotpaws]

He is the modern day Steve Sullivan.

without the skill , sure

you should take it to the main board for a broader sampling of opinions

 

[Leaf Fans]

without the skill , sure

you should take it to the main board for a broader sampling of opinions

Yeah, sure.

 

[1specter]

Thanks, now I can sleep. 5'8 is unacceptable.

One inch can make a difference depending on the scenario

 

[ER89]

One inch can make a difference depending on the scenario

so thats what they mean when they say game of inches

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

it's the same mentality that led to Kane being a 1st o/a pick

if a smaller player shows enough by his draft year he'll be taken and taken high and no one's saying not to draft small players , the problem becomes when that's pretty much all Dubie drafts and then targets more smurfs in trades and undrafted college ufa's

For every small player he has signed or traded for, he has signed or traded for a big player as well.

Simmonds, Ritchie, Kampf, Clifford, Spezza, Thornton, Mikheyev, Hyman, Bogosian, muzzin, Lyubushkin, Rubins, Brazeau, Douglas, Elynuik(sp), Marchment, Gabriel, Agostino,

it's the same mentality that led to Kane being a 1st o/a pick

if a smaller player shows enough by his draft year he'll be taken and taken high and no one's saying not to draft small players , the problem becomes when that's pretty much all Dubie drafts and then targets more smurfs in trades and undrafted college ufa's

For every small player he has signed or traded for, he has signed or traded for a big player as well.

Simmonds, Ritchie, Kampf, Clifford, Spezza, Thornton, Mikheyev, Hyman, Bogosian, muzzin, Lyubushkin, Rubins, Brazeau, Douglas, Elynuik(sp), Marchment, Gabriel, Agostino, Archibald, Pooley, Gaudet, Gagner etc. For example

Yes his drafting has been mostly below average size or smurfs but his draft philosophy of skill and hockey IQ over everything seems to be working out pretty good. We have a surprisingly deep pool considering we haven't had a lot of high picks the last 3 years. A majority of our pool are progressing very well and we have a decent number of prospects on the verge of making the Leafs. A few of them have even grown to over 6' since being drafted. Another reason to not let size impact your drafting. They are still kids that might not be finished growing

 

[Buds17]

Seems like a chance worth taking.

 

[The Iceman]

MAYBE just maybe there are no 6'2" high skilled free wallets out there and Dubas has to look for players that are trying to sneak throug the cracks.

 

[hockeynorth]

it's the same mentality that led to Kane being a 1st o/a pick

if a smaller player shows enough by his draft year he'll be taken and taken high and no one's saying not to draft small players , the problem becomes when that's pretty much all Dubie drafts and then targets more smurfs in trades and undrafted college ufa's

Drafted and 6'0 via HockeyDB:
Matt Knies - 6'3 210ibs
Rodion Amirov 6'0 191ibs
William Villeneuve - 6'2 180ibs
Filip Kral - 6'1 176ibs
Mikhail Abramov - 6'0 172ibs
Sean Durzi - 6'0 195ibs
Riley Stotts - 6'0 187ibs
Semyon Kizimov - 6'0 176ibs

Those are the ones that start with a 6, HOWEVER, Dubas has drafted many guys near 200 ibs and/or 5'11

Topi Niemela - 5'11 169ibs --> top prospect
Dmitri Ovchinnikov - 5'11 163ibs
John Fusco - 5'11 181ibs
Wyatt Schingoethe - 5'11 194ibs
Ryan Tverberg - 5'11 180ibs --> absolute wrecking ball of a prospect, and very near the top of our pool
Mikko Kokkonen - 5'11 198ibs --> defensive stud
Kalle Loponen - 5'11 187ibs
Rasmus Sandin - 5'11 178ibs --> this kid is kind of good, would say he's near the top of our prospects
Semyon Der Arguchinstev - 5'11 161ibs

Keep in mind, these are KIDS, they grow

Players he's signed that are either big, tough or hard to play against:
Curtis Douglas
Ondrej Kase
Michael Bunting
Nick Ritchie
David Kampf
Mason Marchment
Justin Holl
Pavel Gogolev
Kurtis Gabriel
Wayne Simmonds
Jason Spezza
Joe Thornton
Alex Steeves
Zach Bogosian
TJ Brodie
Kristians Rubins
Jimmy Vesey
Nick Shore
Kevin Gravel
Kenny Agostino
Trevor Moore

Players he's traded for:
Nick Foligno
Mark Giordano
Colin Blackwell
Jake Muzzin
Ilya Lyubushkin
Riley Nash
Joey Anderson
Kyle Clifford
Cody Ceci
Alex Kerfoot
Ben Harpur

Average NHL height: 6'1, Average weight: 198.8ibs

So please tell me, why this GM, who's signings clearly point to him not having a size bias, is known as anti size. His most common picks are an inch or two below league average... as teenagers. Does an inch make that much of a difference to you? It's such a lazy narrative, please at least pick on the fact that he has a tendency to pick players with average speed or something new.

Also, point out who he's grabbed and kept that don't fit this bill.

 

[hockeynorth]

The above also completely disregards that his OHL teams regularly had enforcers on them as well, in a league that hates fighting and actively has tried to stomp it out.

 

[hotpaws]

Drafted and 6'0 via HockeyDB:
Matt Knies - 6'3 210ibs
Rodion Amirov 6'0 191ibs
William Villeneuve - 6'2 180ibs
Filip Kral - 6'1 176ibs
Mikhail Abramov - 6'0 172ibs
Sean Durzi - 6'0 195ibs
Riley Stotts - 6'0 187ibs
Semyon Kizimov - 6'0 176ibs

Those are the ones that start with a 6, HOWEVER, Dubas has drafted many guys near 200 ibs and/or 5'11

Topi Niemela - 5'11 169ibs --> top prospect
Dmitri Ovchinnikov - 5'11 163ibs
John Fusco - 5'11 181ibs
Wyatt Schingoethe - 5'11 194ibs
Ryan Tverberg - 5'11 180ibs --> absolute wrecking ball of a prospect, and very near the top of our pool
Mikko Kokkonen - 5'11 198ibs --> defensive stud
Kalle Loponen - 5'11 187ibs
Rasmus Sandin - 5'11 178ibs --> this kid is kind of good, would say he's near the top of our prospects
Semyon Der Arguchinstev - 5'11 161ibs

Keep in mind, these are KIDS, they grow

Players he's signed that are either big, tough or hard to play against:
Curtis Douglas
Ondrej Kase
Michael Bunting
Nick Ritchie
David Kampf
Mason Marchment
Justin Holl
Pavel Gogolev
Kurtis Gabriel
Wayne Simmonds
Jason Spezza
Joe Thornton
Alex Steeves
Zach Bogosian
TJ Brodie
Kristians Rubins
Jimmy Vesey
Nick Shore
Kevin Gravel
Kenny Agostino
Trevor Moore

Players he's traded for:
Nick Foligno
Mark Giordano
Colin Blackwell
Jake Muzzin
Ilya Lyubushkin
Riley Nash
Joey Anderson
Kyle Clifford
Cody Ceci
Alex Kerfoot
Ben Harpur

Average NHL height: 6'1, Average weight: 198.8ibs

So please tell me, why this GM, who's signings clearly point to him not having a size bias, is known as anti size. His most common picks are an inch or two below league average... as teenagers. Does an inch make that much of a difference to you? It's such a lazy narrative, please at least pick on the fact that he has a tendency to pick players with average speed or something new.

Also, point out who he's grabbed and kept that don't fit this bill.

i always enjoy seeing how desperate Dubie's peeps are to defend everything he does

what i enjoy most however is how on one hand people say he doesn't draft smurfs and then always end by saying their only 18/19/20 and they'll grow . lol

Voit - 5-9 151
Hirvonen -5-9 176
Miettinen 5-9 160
Miller 5-8 147
Robertson 5-9 164
Abruzzese 5-9 160
Koster 5-9 172
Hollowell 5-9 170

8 picks in his 4 drafts 5-9 and under , didn't even bother to check how many college or jr ufa's like Eliis 5-8 150 he signed

 

[deprw]

i always enjoy seeing how desperate Dubie's peeps are to defend everything he does

what i enjoy most however is how on one hand people say he doesn't draft smurfs and then always end by saying their only 18/19/20 and they'll grow . lol

Voit - 5-9 151
Hirvonen -5-9 176
Miettinen 5-9 160
Miller 5-8 147
Robertson 5-9 164
Abruzzese 5-9 160
Koster 5-9 172
Hollowell 5-9 170

8 picks in his 4 drafts 5-9 and under , didn't even bother to check how many college or jr ufa's like Eliis 5-8 150 he signed

Well we draft those smaller players because people like you, that see size as an issue and leave good value on the table based on that. They draft those big players first in the hopes that they get next Chara or Lucic, after that they go to that middle class, because this is contact sport. Then you get to pick value from smaller players with high iq, work ethic and personality. Traits that are other part of this great sport.

I think our roster is balanced which is most important thing. Out of draft picks you want value and they you can trade players if needed something else. It's hard to trade busted fridge with no hockey iq for any value.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

i always enjoy seeing how desperate Dubie's peeps are to defend everything he does

what i enjoy most however is how on one hand people say he doesn't draft smurfs and then always end by saying their only 18/19/20 and they'll grow . lol

Voit - 5-9 151
Hirvonen -5-9 176
Miettinen 5-9 160
Miller 5-8 147
Robertson 5-9 164
Abruzzese 5-9 160
Koster 5-9 172
Hollowell 5-9 170

8 picks in his 4 drafts 5-9 and under , didn't even bother to check how many college or jr ufa's like Eliis 5-8 150 he signed

Myself and Hockeynorth listed way more large players that he has acquired.

And so what? The players that you've listed are pretty well all better prospects than all the behemoths we drafted under Hunter, Nonis and Burke.

Greenway
Middleton
Mattinen
Rasanen
Gauthier
Biggs
Broll
Devane
Korshkov
Gordeev
Chebykin
Bobylev
Desrochers


What did any of these guys amount to after being drafted? Skill and IQ are much better tools to project to the NHL over just size no matter how big the player is. Again it's mentalities like yours that keep on allowing players like Marchand, Point, Debrincat, Gaudreau, Kaprizov etc to slip past the 1st round and be stolen by their respective teams. We have been targeting these types of players and our prospect pool looks great because of it. It's better to look for the next Point than to be continuing on drafting guys like Gauthier who won't amount to anything more than a 4th liner.

If we have a surplus of small and highly skilled forwards all fighting for NHL jobs, we can always use them to acquire a player of need. There are always teams like Nashville, and Minnesota that need scoring help.

 

[aingefan]

I’d be curious to hear reports from anyone who’s actually watched him play.
If he plays like Trevor Moore or Colin Blackwell, super.
Guess we’ll see.
Welcome to him anyway.

Ben Meyers next please.

 

[4thline]

His provocation of the insecurity squad aside, I think it's very interesting that he's coming out as a junior. Either they're high enough on this kid that they think he'd get too much attention after his senior season, or we weren't the only team interested now. Notre dame tends to turn out hardworking two way players, so there's that.

Other tidbits from the morning reading
-started school at 145, put on 20 pounds the last 3 years
-20 points (11 goals) in 15 games to start the season, then went ice cold

 

[The Iceman]

i always enjoy seeing how desperate Dubie's peeps are to defend everything he does

what i enjoy most however is how on one hand people say he doesn't draft smurfs and then always end by saying their only 18/19/20 and they'll grow . lol

Voit - 5-9 151
Hirvonen -5-9 176
Miettinen 5-9 160
Miller 5-8 147
Robertson 5-9 164
Abruzzese 5-9 160
Koster 5-9 172
Hollowell 5-9 170

8 picks in his 4 drafts 5-9 and under , didn't even bother to check how many college or jr ufa's like Eliis 5-8 150 he signed

PEEPS...Shouldn't all Leaf fans be Dubas peeps at this point??

Team is one win against Montreal tonight away from 3rd in the NHL without the mirrors of a goalie stealing points.

All hail the KING

 

[4thline]

Dubas' "prospect type" (not europeans hoping for a day 1 roster spot) UDFA's

Ellis- 5'9 165
Douglas - 6'9 250
Kressler - 5'9 165 (at 18)
Gogolev- 6' 175
Steeves 5'11 185
Rubins 6'4 216
Kivihalme 6' 181
Duszak 5'10 185

2 Large (one of which is a monster, likely the biggest in the league if he makes it)
3 Normal size
3 Small

Of the small, 2-3 are hardworking two way types that can/ excel at PK

Zero at 5'8 150.

 

[cupcrazyman]

and you never know whether these kids is going to break out either.

All you need is an opportunity.

 

[Jeypic]

i always enjoy seeing how desperate Dubie's peeps are to defend everything he does

what i enjoy most however is how on one hand people say he doesn't draft smurfs and then always end by saying their only 18/19/20 and they'll grow . lol

Voit - 5-9 151
Hirvonen -5-9 176
Miettinen 5-9 160
Miller 5-8 147
Robertson 5-9 164
Abruzzese 5-9 160
Koster 5-9 172
Hollowell 5-9 170

8 picks in his 4 drafts 5-9 and under , didn't even bother to check how many college or jr ufa's like Eliis 5-8 150 he signed

Lol your argument is getting destroyed in here. You should just quit being a leaf fan. I don’t know how you’d manage watching Dubas lift the cup.

 

[hockeynorth]

i always enjoy seeing how desperate Dubie's peeps are to defend everything he does

what i enjoy most however is how on one hand people say he doesn't draft smurfs and then always end by saying their only 18/19/20 and they'll grow . lol

Voit - 5-9 151
Hirvonen -5-9 176
Miettinen 5-9 160
Miller 5-8 147
Robertson 5-9 164
Abruzzese 5-9 160
Koster 5-9 172
Hollowell 5-9 170

8 picks in his 4 drafts 5-9 and under , didn't even bother to check how many college or jr ufa's like Eliis 5-8 150 he signed

Of those 8, 4 are in our top 10 prospects. None of those were 1st round picks.

It’s not about defending him, it’s that the narrative is lazy. There’s better things to attack, I even gave you one.

 

[nuck]

5'8" 150lbs.... That will give some people, "things" to talk about. LOL

Congrats to the kid, remember folks, the Marlies need players too.

Thats a Leaf contract though, so I don't see it as an AHL decision. Without getting into the size debate on this thread (man some people defend their little guys here) you can't sign players with size if they aren't there. Ellis is a prospect until he shows he isn't and them giving an NHL deal says they think he has some potential. No complaints here.

 

[hockeynorth]

Thats a Leaf contract though, so I don't see it as an AHL decision. Without getting into the size debate on this thread (man some people defend their little guys here) you can't sign players with size if they aren't there. Ellis is a prospect until he shows he isn't and them giving an NHL deal says they think he has some potential.

Worst case scenario he’s trade bait. I prefer this signing to Rindell at least. Hopefully he can develop into a Blackwell.

 

[pucksakes666]

So someone to help the growlers on their play off run?