Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign Pierre Engvall, Jesper Lindgren, Par Lindholm and Igor Ozhiganov to ELCs

[saltming]

Alright salt... ill play along. What is your question ? Last time I checked you were spewing about "zomg opinions"

I'm not playing this game. Search your own comments in this thread and reply if you want to

 

[LeafChief]

You do seem to love accusing people of saying things they never said. Talk about projecting Fogelhund/Leafchief. My point is if you pay the young supporting cast a little more, you get to keep them longer. The only reason you have to be so ultra cheap with them with $1 million dollar 1-2 year mini-bridge contracts is in order to keep a 40 year old around one year and maybe add a couple of his pals for good measure and sweet retirement contracts. Why sacrifice several years of an amazing supporting player at relatively low cost in the future just to keep an aging and declining vet or two on your team to take up the maximum cap your blank cheque will provide? Do you really think hanging onto oldster wingers like Marleau and adding some of his pals who were good maybe 10 years ago at a massive premium is going to win us the cup? Certainly didn't look like that this year, and the team is knee deep in talent on the wings to boot. FYI, it also never worked before. If it had, we would have had a cup under Quinn. Instead we spread our talented youth around the league, trading them for peanuts while chasing old guys like you and your pals want the Leafs to do again. Those you refuse to learn from history...

Again - I have no idea what you're talking about.

I've never once stated we need to bridge the young 3.

You've been arguing with so many people on here that you're confusing your arguments. Get a grip.

You mentioned cap troubles. I advised you that there were no cap troubles. A basic comprehension of math would allow you to understand this.

I asked you to show me what you believe Marner, Matthews and Nylander would get on contracts so that I could attempt to understand your argument. Instead you went on a petulant rant about God knows what.

Take a deep breathe, collect your thoughts and get back to me when you want to have an actual discussion. I won't be responding to anymore of your kicking and screaming. We have enough fans of other teams coming in here masking themselves as "Leafs fans". You're just the next one in a long line of people with too much time on their hands.

 

[Nithoniniel]

You've been arguing with so many people on here that you're confusing your arguments. Get a grip.

Yeah I just read through this discussion, and I was wondering that too. He seems to just ignore every point people bring up that doesn't fit what he wants to believe, attribute opinions to people who have never touched them, and just throw random shots at everyone and everything.

I'm glad that I'm on the outside of this one. For once.

 

[4thline]

@Boutette It's not that hard. You've said that an outcome is "likely". Defend that assertion by laying out your assumptions and projections that contribute to that outcome. Copy my post and use it as a framework if you want.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

If Marleau maintains his play at anywhere near the level he was this year you don't jettison him to give raises to bit parts in their mid twenties (should be prime)

How how would jettison a plus 35 plus player with a NMC? Lots of Leaf fans are just wishing away his last year but IMO Marleau is staying to win his first Cup.

 

[Boutette]

How how would jettison a plus 35 plus player with a NMC? Lots of Leaf fans are just wishing away his last year but IMO Marleau is staying to win his first Cup.

You ask him very very nicely to take a hike after you've paid his massive July 1st bonus that year after you tell him he wouldn't be playing for the team at all that year anyway, and therefore wouldn't be winning a Stanley Cup. Maybe you add that you'll hire him as a coach if he retires as a player from his new team.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

You ask him very very nicely to take a hike after you've paid his massive July 1st bonus that year after you tell him he wouldn't be playing for the team at all that year anyway, and therefore wouldn't be winning a Stanley Cup. Maybe you add that you'll hire him as a coach if he retires as a player from his new team.

As you know, being a plus 35 player, he still as cap hit of 6.25m in 2019/20 even if he retires As a I said, Leafs fans just wishing his contract away.

 

[Boutette]

As you know, being a plus 35 player, he still as cap hit of 6.25m in 2019/20 even if he retires As a I said, Leafs fans just wishing his contract away.

If he agrees to be traded to a team needing to reach cap minimum, which he may very well do after the Leafs have paid his bonus July 1st, 2020, which his contract has made plain, that's not a wish. That's what the contract is designed to enable.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

If he agrees to be traded to a team needing to reach cap minimum, which he may very well do after the Leafs have paid his bonus July 1st, 2020, which his contract has made plain, that's not a wish. That's what the contract is designed to enable.

OK, the contract was kinda designed for possibly that purpose. But if the Leafs have a good team, which is expected 2019/20 will be his last chance at a Cup. So why would he want to retire under those circumstances.? So I say, it's still a wish that the Marleau wants to retire by Leaf fans just so they think they can have another 6.25m of cap room. And if doesn't want to retire, his NMC is king.
I know it tough to convince Leafs FANatics that players want to play because they know they are going to be retired for the next 40 years of their life, And if a player has one last chance at the Cup, there is no good reason for him to retire.

 

[Boutette]

OK, the contract was kinda designed for possibly that purpose. But if the Leafs have a good team, which is expected 2019/20 will be his last chance at a Cup. So why would he want to retire under those circumstances.? So I say, it's still a wish that the Marleau wants to retire by Leaf fans just so they think they can have another 6.25m of cap room. And if doesn't want to retire, his NMC is king.
I know it tough to convince Leafs FANatics that players want to play because they know they are going to be retired for the next 40 years of their life, And if a player has one last chance at the Cup, there is no good reason for him to retire.

I guess you were firmly on the side of the Muskoka 5, no? I mean, the player's wishes are far more important than the team, right? Screw the team, Marleau deserves another crack at the cup, even if it makes for a worse team!!

 

[67Cup]

This has certainly become a very confusing thread for someone who just checked in to find out if there is anything new or interesting about any of the four players named in the title of the thread.

 

[Boutette]

This has certainly become a very confusing thread for someone who just checked in to find out if there is anything new or interesting about any of the four players named in the title of the thread.

Sorry about that. Engvall has had a decent playoffs so far, but he's not on a scoring line much, so hasn't performed as well as GAJ. Could be a top performer on the Marlies, and a call up to the Leafs next year if he doesn't return to Sweden. He's really good with his reach and speed. We'll need a replacement for Marleau in a couple years and he might fit the bill. Nothing much on the other three, however.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I guess you were firmly on the side of the Muskoka 5, no? I mean, the player's wishes are far more important than the team, right? Screw the team, Marleau deserves another crack at the cup, even if it makes for a worse team!!

He has a NMC and scored 27 goals last season. Not once in your previous argument you discussed any decline in Marleau's ability. It's just your unbridled desire to get 6.25m cap space while ignoring the CBA and even considering at all Marleau's wishes, I find so silly.
And c'mon want to bring in the Muskoka 5. If I remember the Leaf were out of the playoffs that year, so it's not like the "five" were going to make a Cup run. Is this how you discuss things, with all these meaningless red herrings? Yep,it sounds like you are a homer fanatic who must need that 6.25 when you make a fantasy roster.
Adios forever, if you can't appreciate what Marleau just might want.

 

[Boutette]

He has a NMC and scored 27 goals last season. Not once in your previous argument you discussed any decline in Marleau's ability. It's just your unbridled desire to get 6.25m cap space while ignoring the CBA and even considering at all Marleau's wishes, I find so silly.
And c'mon want to bring in the Muskoka 5. If I remember the Leaf were out of the playoffs that year, so it's not like the "five" were going to make a Cup run. Is this how you discuss things, with all these meaningless red herrings? Yep,it sounds like you are a homer fanatic who must need that 6.25 when you make a fantasy roster.
Adios forever, if you can't appreciate what Marleau just might want.

As a fan of the team that wants the *team* to win a Stanley Cup Marleau's wishes have nothing to do with me. And if his wishes getting in the way of the team winning that cup then what should I care? Besides, he had at least as good a chance winning a cup as a Shark so the whole, he came here to win a cup is BS, he came here because we offered more $$$$ than San Jose did. And the Muskoka 5 aren't a red herring. Their selfishness helped set back the Leafs rebuild for a full decade. If you want to be a Marleau fan first and a Leafs fan second, that's your right. Me, I'd rather have Engvall on the team 2019-2020 than 40 year old Marleau even if Marleau is still a better player. That $6.5 mil would be better served to deal with an area of *team* weakness. And the wings is not where this team is at all weak.

 

[stickty111]

Im confused, who is this Muskoka 5 that the poster keeps talking about?

 

[67Leafs67]

Im confused, who is this Muskoka 5 that the poster keeps talking about?

Back in the JFJ days, right after the lock-out, the Leafs had five players, veterans Mats Sundin, Tomas Kaberle, Darcy Tucker, Bryan McCabe, and Pavel Kubina, who had NTCs. The team's lack of success during the period led many to wish they were traded for valuable younger assets, but the players were comfortable with their "Muskoka" summers, and did not seem to want to win. Had they waived their clauses and the Leafs had traded them, perhaps the Leafs rebuild begins much earlier, and the awful Brian Burke era never happens.

 

[Boutette]

Im confused, who is this Muskoka 5 that the poster keeps talking about?

Ah, the team did try to trade the players 67Leafs67 mentioned and those players refused to be traded until it finally got to uncomfortable for most of them to hang around. It wasn't just a wish, it was a fact. You mustn't have been a Leafs fan for very long, that was only 8-10 years ago, which is why I'll be happy to wave bye-bye to Marleau after his short stint here (hopefully in just a little over a year) and welcome Engvall to replace him. I've no stomach for players who are here get a retirement paycheck first, to win a cup for themselves second, team third. Which is why I don't want Kovalchuk on this team either. Better our developed players than these mercs.

 

[stickty111]

Back in the JFJ days, right after the lock-out, the Leafs had five players, veterans Mats Sundin, Tomas Kaberle, Darcy Tucker, Bryan McCabe, and Pavel Kubina, who had NTCs. The team's lack of success during the period led many to wish they were traded for valuable younger assets, but the players were comfortable with their "Muskoka" summers, and did not seem to want to win. Had they waived their clauses and the Leafs had traded them, perhaps the Leafs rebuild begins much earlier, and the awful Brian Burke era never happens.

I got it now.
Thanks

 

[Nithoniniel]

Whether Marleau is on this team in his last year has nothing to do with wanting, it's about the reality that he controls his fate due to his NMC. If he thinks we have a great shot and want to give it one more try, there's really not a lot we can do about it. That's just the reality of the situation.

I do hope that was the agreement from the start though, that Marleau would move on in that third year.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

As a fan of the team that wants the *team* to win a Stanley Cup Marleau's wishes have nothing to do with me. And if his wishes getting in the way of the team winning that cup then what should I care? Besides, he had at least as good a chance winning a cup as a Shark so the whole, he came here to win a cup is BS, he came here because we offered more $$$$ than San Jose did. And the Muskoka 5 aren't a red herring. Their selfishness helped set back the Leafs rebuild for a full decade. If you want to be a Marleau fan first and a Leafs fan second, that's your right. Me, I'd rather have Engvall on the team 2019-2020 than 40 year old Marleau even if Marleau is still a better player. That $6.5 mil would be better served to deal with an area of *team* weakness. And the wings is not where this team is at all weak.

What you want doesn't matter. If GM's don't want a Muskoka 5 situation they should stop giving out contracts that allow it.

We're all Leaf fans, just some of us understand how contracts work.

 

[Boutette]

What you want doesn't matter. If GM's don't want a Muskoka 5 situation they should stop giving out contracts that allow it.

We're all Leaf fans, just some of us understand how contracts work.

I understand how contracts work, just as much as I understand what Marleau's contract has been structured to enable. But that's not what I was responding to, this was:

"Adios forever, if you can't appreciate what Marleau just might want."

Do you comprehend what that line is stating or do I have to spell it out to you?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Back in the JFJ days, right after the lock-out, the Leafs had five players, veterans Mats Sundin, Tomas Kaberle, Darcy Tucker, Bryan McCabe, and Pavel Kubina, who had NTCs. The team's lack of success during the period led many to wish they were traded for valuable younger assets, but the players were comfortable with their "Muskoka" summers, and did not seem to want to win. Had they waived their clauses and the Leafs had traded them, perhaps the Leafs rebuild begins much earlier, and the awful Brian Burke era never happens.

If only Marty McFly could help

 

[Boutette]

If only Marty McFly could help

I personally have no interest in time-travel wishfulfillment fantasies. The past is what we learn from and try not to repeat. Engvall has been amazing considering where we plucked him from, it looks like he may have a Nicolai Andropov ceiling, and I fervently hope the Leafs nurture that potential to its fullest instead of our teams long histor of dumping such players before they hit their prime. I'm also looking forwards to the soonest point we can see how Lindholm and Ozzie can show us their stuff. Going to be a long couple months or so waiting.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I personally have no interest in time-travel wishfulfillment fantasies. The past is what we learn from and try not to repeat. Engvall has been amazing considering where we plucked him from, it looks like he may have a Nicolai Andropov ceiling, and I fervently hope the Leafs nurture that potential to its fullest instead of our teams long histor of dumping such players before they hit their prime. I'm also looking forwards to the soonest point we can see how Lindholm and Ozzie can show us their stuff. Going to be a long couple months or so waiting.

K