Post-Game Talk: Leafs score two goals (Who cares what sens scored) pt 2

[Morgs]

Because that doesnt make the team better.

Your reducing depth + you are putting a guy in his late 30s at center, a position he hasnt played in years.

How's that reducing depth? We have 5~ forwards who could make the team and won't. Marleau playing in Bozaks spot is literally nothing; crazy ozs and little to no actual comp.

 

[ACC1224]

IMO yes. However I'm just putting it out there in the event Nylander stays on the wing with Matthews. We can re-sign Bozak (or not) but I would still like a defensive center upgrade if we run Matthews/Kadri/C.
If you have Marleau/Marner, you could have Hyman/Brown with Kadri. A Gauthier with more skill and a Jenner type for the Matthews/Nylander combo.
I'm using a top 9 structure here so not really a 1st-2nd-3rd line.

Kadri and Marner both like to carry the puck up the ice, don't see a fit there.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Well, if these games have shown anything, it's that the Sens appear to have solid goaltending depth.

They do. Hogberg is a bit of a hidden gem in my opinion. Tons of raw ability, and he really put it together last season.

Senators have a habit of finding these players in later rounds. If their depth at defense can ride out the absence of Karlsson in the early season, who knows what they can do?

 

[Mess]

Senators have a habit of finding these players in later rounds. If their depth at defense can ride out the absence of Karlsson in the early season, who knows what they can do?

Thomas Chabot (looks like he is going to be a star in the making). Always been a fan even before he was drafted, had my fingers crossed he would fall to Leafs at #24 but Sens grabbed him at #18 back in 2015.

Chabot will help bridge the gap until Karlsson returns.

 

[WinB4IDIE]

The Leafs as a team don't now and will NOT compete hard enough to win anything, sure they will make the playoffs but that's it. They are a mirror image of the team they dismantled four years ago, they have scoring talent and better goaltending than four years ago but not one of their players compete like any of the top 10 teams do. Opening night they will get dominated and any other night where emotions are needed this team will fail.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Marincin's defensive abilities are generally pretty good. He's a solid PKer, has great reach and does a good job of holding the blue line. Where his struggles come from are when the puck ends up on his stick, which he is just god awful with.

To be honest, I could see a scenario where if both of the Swedes and Dermott play really well for the rest of the pre-season and Carrick keeps sucking, we waive one of Carrick/Marincin, keep the other in the press box, and have 2 of Rosen/Dermott/Borgman while the remaining guy goes down to the AHL.

someone pointed out. he doesn't have the switch that lets him know it's an "important time in the game" as of yet. like he treats the game as if it just started, vs. it's 2 minutes to go in the third and you are up/down aned need to play awesome.

my thing is. I liked what i see from Borgman (a lot) and I like Rosen. as no one is being cut - seeing them more will help solidify my opinion.

I would trade Carrick/Leivo. I know people feel Leivo is worth whatever and is awesome but I'm still "meh" and do that option. (or Marincin as you brought up).

I just think at times people get too into "omg he sucks i hate him." to realise there are other factors here for some players. (sure some of them does get painted with "Stubborn cow" paint - ie: hates so and so). which is true but i just figure cut bait and let's find other players who can fit in.

 

[member 262271]

The Leafs as a team don't now and will NOT compete hard enough to win anything, sure they will make the playoffs but that's it. They are a mirror image of the team they dismantled four years ago, they have scoring talent and better goaltending than four years ago but not one of their players compete like any of the top 10 teams do. Opening night they will get dominated and any other night where emotions are needed this team will fail.

I'm skeptical of this team right now, rightly or wrongly. However, I wonder if you like the leafs at all? Just curious.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The Leafs as a team don't now and will NOT compete hard enough to win anything, sure they will make the playoffs but that's it. They are a mirror image of the team they dismantled four years ago, they have scoring talent and better goaltending than four years ago but not one of their players compete like any of the top 10 teams do. Opening night they will get dominated and any other night where emotions are needed this team will fail.

Nah. You need to watch Hyman play. He's a good pro and he will drag this team further than you think.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Why not just throw Marleau at C in Bozaks spot, and keep Komarov - Kadri - Brown in-tact?

After that all we need is Kapanen in Hymans spot and we're golden.

marleau doesn't want to be a centre.

so i'd get a centre/winger type who wants to be a centre to keep Matty/Will in tact (and lets you move Will down when necessary to be v. scary)

 

[ToneDog]

someone pointed out. he doesn't have the switch that lets him know it's an "important time in the game" as of yet. like he treats the game as if it just started, vs. it's 2 minutes to go in the third and you are up/down aned need to play awesome.

my thing is. I liked what i see from Borgman (a lot) and I like Rosen. as no one is being cut - seeing them more will help solidify my opinion.

I would trade Carrick/Leivo. I know people feel Leivo is worth whatever and is awesome but I'm still "meh" and do that option. (or Marincin as you brought up).

I just think at times people get too into "omg he sucks i hate him." to realise there are other factors here for some players. (sure some of them does get painted with "Stubborn cow" paint - ie: hates so and so). which is true but i just figure cut bait and let's find other players who can fit in.

Trading Carrick would be very risky unless you bring back or add another dman. Carrick is insurance should Borgman, Dermott and Rosen fail during the season in whch case you would be left with Marincin and possibly Polak, and what Polak is, is TBD.

 

[redbull]

The Leafs as a team don't now and will NOT compete hard enough to win anything, sure they will make the playoffs but that's it. They are a mirror image of the team they dismantled four years ago, they have scoring talent and better goaltending than four years ago but not one of their players compete like any of the top 10 teams do. Opening night they will get dominated and any other night where emotions are needed this team will fail.

is this your hunch? based on what you've seen in the two pre-season games?

I don't get it.

All I see is SUPERB talent with a few question-marks (elite talent and depth on defense, depth in goal).

Knowing they were going half-speed at best, just seeing how dominant Matthews, Marner, Nylander looked, adding Freddy A, Marleau, JVR, Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner - is already enough to make this team a contender in the East.

Marner is an incredible talent. I think he's going to have a monster offensive season

 

[ToneDog]

Nah. You need to watch Hyman play. He's a good pro and he will drag this team further than you think.

Yup and that Matthews guy is a slacker extraordinaire.

 

[ACC1224]

Carrick won't be going anywhere simply because he's right handed. He may not dress but he won't be moved unless a better right handed defenseman is found.

Personally, I think he still has a shot at being a decent player here.

 

[Menzinger]

Problem of giving up on a guy like Leivo is that there's a pretty good chance next season that neither Leo or JVR will be on the team.

Now Kapanen likely takes one of those spots but there will be need to have some offensive firepower and Leivo has shown (albeit in a limited sample) he can provide that in a depth role.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Senators have a habit of finding these players in later rounds. If their depth at defense can ride out the absence of Karlsson in the early season, who knows what they can do?

Thomas Chabot (looks like he is going to be a star in the making). Always been a fan even before he was drafted, had my fingers crossed he would fall to Leafs at #24 but Sens grabbed him at #18 back in 2015.

Chabot will help bridge the gap until Karlsson returns.

Yes, they have Chabot. Will be interesting to see how they do with Chabot in while Karlsson is out.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Problem of giving up on a guy like Leivo is that there's a pretty good chance next season that neither Leo or JVR will be on the team.

Now Kapanen likely takes one of those spots but there will be need to have some offensive firepower and Leivo has shown (albeit in a limited sample) he can provide that in a depth role.

Also Bozak might not be back, meaning Nylander might be moved to center which would open up a RW spot

 

[Gary Nylund]

Problem of giving up on a guy like Leivo is that there's a pretty good chance next season that neither Leo or JVR will be on the team.

Now Kapanen likely takes one of those spots but there will be need to have some offensive firepower and Leivo has shown (albeit in a limited sample) he can provide that in a depth role.

No we should absolutely not give up on Leivo and this is yet another reason I want JVR gone, sooner as opposed to later. Some people say keep him because of "cup run", that's great if you're a hopeless optimist but when reality sets in and the cup run runs out of steam, you have to deal with the reality that we need to replace 3 veteran players next season. Why not start now, find out if Leivo can cut it, get Kapanen some ice time which he badly needs and get the process started. The end goal is to win the cup and when we do, JVR won't be here, Bozak won't be here and Komarov probably won't be here either. The sooner we start making decisions with that in mind the better.

 

[leafsfuture]

How's that reducing depth? We have 5~ forwards who could make the team and won't. Marleau playing in Bozaks spot is literally nothing; crazy ozs and little to no actual comp.

Good teams generally have multiple players who "could make the team" but dont.

Also, how is Marleau playing in Bozak's spot "literally nothing". Why give an aging player EXTRA defensive responsibility in a position he hasnt played on a regular basis (50+ games) in 6-7 years?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That's definitely part of it. Also, I saw Marleau take a shot every time he touched the puck in the oz. Taking away shots from Nylander/Matthews is a recipe for disaster.



Coming from the guy who thinks Ceci would be an improvement in our top-4 (wouldn't even be an improvement over Polak), that doesn't mean much.

Your unnatural hatred for Ceci doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make Marincin or Hyman good players

 

[Morgs]

Your unnatural hatred for Ceci doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make Marincin or Hyman good players

I never said Hyman was a good or bad player.

"Unnatural hatred":

Defending one of the worst defenseman in the NHL because? You about to tell me Risto is a #1?

 

[Daisy Jane]

No we should absolutely not give up on Leivo and this is yet another reason I want JVR gone, sooner as opposed to later. Some people say keep him because of "cup run", that's great if you're a hopeless optimist but when reality sets in and the cup run runs out of steam, you have to deal with the reality that we need to replace 3 veteran players next season. Why not start now, find out if Leivo can cut it, get Kapanen some ice time which he badly needs and get the process started. The end goal is to win the cup and when we do, JVR won't be here, Bozak won't be here and Komarov probably won't be here either. The sooner we start making decisions with that in mind the better.

or reality sets in and the cup run isn't. and again not to get into this whole thing again. it might just be that no one wants to pay the price to get to JVR. and I don't think the Leafs should lower their standards in order to facilitate a request. (and I doubt it's unreasonable).

I'd be more likely to believe that regardless of where we are the Leafs would be more able to trade JVR at deadline vs. right now.

but in my opinion as humble as it is - all this "oh no can't give up on Leivo." well it's been four years and he can't really get a footing, stay healthy or any of that jazz. i honestly don't think it will be that bad if we traded him along with other assets to get better ones.

 

[ACC1224]

Your unnatural hatred for Ceci doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make Marincin or Hyman good players

How could anyone dislike Ceci, he's a very good player. He would fit perfectly in the Leafs top 4

 

[saltming]

Carrick won't be going anywhere simply because he's right handed. He may not dress but he won't be moved unless a better right handed defenseman is found.

Personally, I think he still has a shot at being a decent player here.

If we are keeping Carrick for depth Holl is a RHD and pretty solid.

 

[ToneDog]

No we should absolutely not give up on Leivo and this is yet another reason I want JVR gone, sooner as opposed to later. Some people say keep him because of "cup run", that's great if you're a hopeless optimist but when reality sets in and the cup run runs out of steam, you have to deal with the reality that we need to replace 3 veteran players next season. Why not start now, find out if Leivo can cut it, get Kapanen some ice time which he badly needs and get the process started. The end goal is to win the cup and when we do, JVR won't be here, Bozak won't be here and Komarov probably won't be here either. The sooner we start making decisions with that in mind the better.

So who realistically sits to allow Kappy and Leivo the ice time you are proposing ?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Carrick won't be going anywhere simply because he's right handed. He may not dress but he won't be moved unless a better right handed defenseman is found.

Personally, I think he still has a shot at being a decent player here.

I think so too. He's only 23

I think there will end up being too many question marks on D though, and a trade will happen