Post-Game Talk: Leafs score two goals (Who cares what sens scored) pt 2

[ToneDog]

or reality sets in and the cup run isn't. and again not to get into this whole thing again. it might just be that no one wants to pay the price to get to JVR. and I don't think the Leafs should lower their standards in order to facilitate a request. (and I doubt it's unreasonable).

I'd be more likely to believe that regardless of where we are the Leafs would be more able to trade JVR at deadline vs. right now.

but in my opinion as humble as it is - all this "oh no can't give up on Leivo." well it's been four years and he can't really get a footing, stay healthy or any of that jazz. i honestly don't think it will be that bad if we traded him along with other assets to get better ones.

Leivo wasted one opportunity on Monday to show that he belongs. He is running out of lives

 

[ACC1224]

or reality sets in and the cup run isn't. and again not to get into this whole thing again. it might just be that no one wants to pay the price to get to JVR. and I don't think the Leafs should lower their standards in order to facilitate a request. (and I doubt it's unreasonable).

I'd be more likely to believe that regardless of where we are the Leafs would be more able to trade JVR at deadline vs. right now.

but in my opinion as humble as it is - all this "oh no can't give up on Leivo." well it's been four years and he can't really get a footing, stay healthy or any of that jazz. i honestly don't think it will be that bad if we traded him along with other assets to get better ones.

I don't care if they lose JVR or Leivo. I'd like them to get on with it though.

 

[1specter]

Kadri and Marner both like to carry the puck up the ice, don't see a fit there.

Not sure I agree with this. Kadri showed us this last season that he has good, quick hands in tight around the crease and is good at tapping in goals...Marner could actually set him up nicely in that regard.

Also, for the brief period that Bozak was injured earlier in the year, Kadri looked pretty good centering JVR and Marner for a few games.

 

[RLF]

or reality sets in and the cup run isn't. and again not to get into this whole thing again. it might just be that no one wants to pay the price to get to JVR. and I don't think the Leafs should lower their standards in order to facilitate a request. (and I doubt it's unreasonable).

I'd be more likely to believe that regardless of where we are the Leafs would be more able to trade JVR at deadline vs. right now.

but in my opinion as humble as it is - all this "oh no can't give up on Leivo." well it's been four years and he can't really get a footing, stay healthy or any of that jazz. i honestly don't think it will be that bad if we traded him along with other assets to get better ones.

Agreed. Leivo has had some success when played, but if the coach(who will be here for many more years) won't play him, his production is a moot point. Plus, his first pre-season game this year, he didn't do himself any favours. We have many good forward prospects, I am not really worried about Leivo. On top of that, I don't think people give JVR enough credit for what he brings to the team. I wonder when they see that Marleau plays a similar game for a big man if he will get criticized just as much.

 

[saltming]

No we should absolutely not give up on Leivo and this is yet another reason I want JVR gone, sooner as opposed to later. Some people say keep him because of "cup run", that's great if you're a hopeless optimist but when reality sets in and the cup run runs out of steam, you have to deal with the reality that we need to replace 3 veteran players next season. Why not start now, find out if Leivo can cut it, get Kapanen some ice time which he badly needs and get the process started. The end goal is to win the cup and when we do, JVR won't be here, Bozak won't be here and Komarov probably won't be here either. The sooner we start making decisions with that in mind the better.

I honestly think the mandate to have a fast skating team is what puts Leivo on the outside looking in.
The main reason I want him to go is so he can actually play hockey and at the same time gives us a little more room for another upcoming player.

 

[Gary Nylund]

or reality sets in and the cup run isn't. and again not to get into this whole thing again. it might just be that no one wants to pay the price to get to JVR. and I don't think the Leafs should lower their standards in order to facilitate a request. (and I doubt it's unreasonable).

I'd be more likely to believe that regardless of where we are the Leafs would be more able to trade JVR at deadline vs. right now.

but in my opinion as humble as it is - all this "oh no can't give up on Leivo." well it's been four years and he can't really get a footing, stay healthy or any of that jazz. i honestly don't think it will be that bad if we traded him along with other assets to get better ones.

I agree the price for JVR might be higher at the deadline. Then again, if he's injured then we get nothing and trading him now has other side benefits which is why my preference is to get it done.

Trading Leivo wouldn't be so bad I guess depending on the return but I think his potential is greater than the return we'd get for him and might regret letting him go. I'd just like to see him get a real chance, he played quite well last year with limited opportunity.

So who realistically sits to allow Kappy and Leivo the ice time you are proposing ?

I'm not saying sit anyone, just saying I think a couple of guys could really use some ice time and moving JVR out would help on that score.

I honestly think the mandate to have a fast skating team is what puts Leivo on the outside looking in.
The main reason I want him to go is so he can actually play hockey and at the same time gives us a little more room for another upcoming player.

You may be right but I'm not sure it's wise to say every player on the team has to fit the same mould. Leivo does some things that are quite valuable that others can't do, how will you feel if we let him go without giving him an extended opportunity and he scores 30 goals for some other team? I'm, not saying he's a lock to do that but I think he just might and it would be shame to let him go without finding out one way or the other.

 

[ACC1224]

Not sure I agree with this. Kadri showed us this last season that he has good, quick hands in tight around the crease and is good at tapping in goals...Marner could actually set him up nicely in that regard.

Also, for the brief period that Bozak was injured earlier in the year, Kadri looked pretty good centering JVR and Marner for a few games.

Yes they would be fine in the opposing end, I was referring more to them both liking to carry the puck up the ice.

 

[ShaneFalco]

It's nice to have a fast team but it shouldn't be the criteria for every forward.

If they end up letting Leivo go, I think it's been a real waste.
Hyman can have a string of bad games but never, ever sees the press-box. Work-ethic is great, but isn't everything, gotta show some results

 

[saltming]

You may be right but I'm not sure it's wise to say every player on the team has to fit the same mould. Leivo does some things that are quite valuable that others can't do, how will you feel if we let him go without giving him an extended opportunity and he scores 30 goals for some other team? I'm, not saying he's a lock to do that but I think he just might and it would be shame to let him go without finding out one way or the other.

I'm not saying every play should fit the same mould example Hyman; crash banger firecracker can skate. Matthews heavy 2 way scoring centre, can skate. Nylander, versatile skilled forward, can skate.

I hope he scores 30 where ever he goes and makes tons of money. I'm just hypotisising why he is press box fodder with the leafs.

 

[ACC1224]

It's nice to have a fast team but it shouldn't be the criteria for every forward.

If they end up letting Leivo go, I think it's been a real waste.
Hyman can have a string of bad games but never, ever sees the press-box. Work-ethic is great, but isn't everything, gotta show some results

Honest question but how would we know if Hyman had a bad game? Seems to be one of the more consistent guys on the Team.

 

[81Leafs50]

I was at the game and this is what i noticed:
1) leafs dominated for long periods, unlucky over some bounces
2) new rules for slashing and faceoffs changing the flow of games and take away momentum
3) all the penalties are changing the outcome of games
4) Marleau was the fastest skater on the ice by a mile
5) Marleau's goal was one of the nicest snipes i've seen
6) Marincin will not make the team, he is beyond brutal. Advanced stats will not save this guy.
7)Borgman looks solid
8) Grundstrom will no doubt replace Komarov after his deal expires this year. he is always noticable on the ice.

Leafs skilled players looked great. Some great tic tac toe passing and goals. A full NHL roster will no doubt win tons of games. don't sweat these pre-season losses.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not saying every play should fit the same mould example Hyman; crash banger firecracker can skate. Matthews heavy 2 way scoring centre, can skate. Nylander, versatile skilled forward, can skate.

I hope he scores 30 where ever he goes and makes tons of money. I'm just hypotisising why he is press box fodder with the leafs.

Fair enough, your guess is as good as any I guess, I sure haven't a clue. Maybe Babcock doesn't like his attitude or something is my best guess, would be a shame if that's what it is.

 

[Bullseye]

Trade someone for that Sens goalie. Swede has game. Sens need forward help we need goal help.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Honest question but how would we know if Hyman had a bad game? Seems to be one of the more consistent guys on the Team.

That's pretty funny. I mean I think it's a legit question ... and a good question ... it's just ... funny at the same time. How would we know?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Honest question but how would we know if Hyman had a bad game? Seems to be one of the more consistent guys on the Team.

Had to look it up:

In those 975 minutes, the 25-year-old winger chipped in six goals and 23 points (he produced 10 goals and 28 points in 82 games overall). It was an up-and-down season for Hyman offensively: After opening the season with just one assist in 13 games while playing 16:41 per night, the Toronto native heated up in his next 25 games with five goals and 17 points. In the final 44 games of the regular season, he scored just five goals and 10 points, including a seven-game pointless streak to end the year.

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/07/05/zach-hyman-re-signed-four-year-2-25-million-aav-contract/

44 games with those point totals on that line? No demotion, not even Babcock trying someone else on the line.........
He's consistently giving it his all, but there has to be more production there. You'd think he'd be racking up the assists

 

[ACC1224]

Had to look it up:



https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/07/05/zach-hyman-re-signed-four-year-2-25-million-aav-contract/

44 games with those point totals on that line? No demotion, not even Babcock trying someone else on the line.........
He's consistently giving it his all, but there has to be more production there. You'd think he'd be racking up the assists

I don't think they measure him as a player by how many points he gets. If he finished with 10 goals and 28 points, wouldn't that mean he had a better 2nd half than a the first half? 5 and 10 vs. 5 and 8

 

[ShaneFalco]

I don't think they measure him as a player by how many points he gets. If he finished with 10 goals and 28 points, wouldn't that mean he had a better 2nd half than a the first half? 5 and 10 vs. 5 and 8

But again - on that line? As a few others have said they just let him run around and cover his linemates.....

Anyway, I think most (some?) would agree he's mis-cast

 

[ACC1224]

But again - on that line? As a few others have said they just let him run around and cover his linemates.....

Anyway, I think most (some?) would agree he's mis-cast

Sure but this all started with the point being made that he should sit for playing poorly when really he didn't play much different from game 1 - 82.

At some point they'll find a better option but it really doesn't rate as that important right now

 

[TIGERCOOL]

I was at the game and this is what i noticed:
1) leafs dominated for long periods, unlucky over some bounces
2) new rules for slashing and faceoffs changing the flow of games and take away momentum
3) all the penalties are changing the outcome of games
4) Marleau was the fastest skater on the ice by a mile
5) Marleau's goal was one of the nicest snipes i've seen
6) Marincin will not make the team, he is beyond brutal. Advanced stats will not save this guy.
7)Borgman looks solid
8) Grundstrom will no doubt replace Komarov after his deal expires this year. he is always noticable on the ice.

Leafs skilled players looked great. Some great tic tac toe passing and goals. A full NHL roster will no doubt win tons of games. don't sweat these pre-season losses.

I can't believe Marleau isn't even getting a sniff at the top line. Babcock has been all talk no action in being open minded about where he'll play. Disappointing.

 

[ACC1224]

I can't believe Marleau isn't even getting a sniff at the top line. Babcock has been all talk no action in being open minded about where he'll play. Disappointing.

Marleau has played one exhibition game and he was on the top line

 

[Warden of the North]

Fehr may make the team as the 14th forward simply because management may not care if they sit him for extended periods of time

Fehr will get waived in the hope that someone grabs him. He may then get recalled.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Marleau has played one exhibition game and he was on the top line

You know exactly what I meant. I would happily bet he won't spend a shift on Matthews wing before the end of preseason.

 

[ACC1224]

You know exactly what I meant. I would happily bet he won't spend a shift on Matthews wing before the end of preseason.

I'm sure they'll line up on the PP at some point. Marleau not playing with Matthews doesn't mean he isn't open minded, I'm sure like any Coach he will consider all combinations and then go with what he feels gives them the best chance to win.

Personally I think Marleau is a much better fit with Marner than Matthews

 

[Razz]

I can't believe Marleau isn't even getting a sniff at the top line. Babcock has been all talk no action in being open minded about where he'll play. Disappointing.

It appears as though Babcock will again run 3 scoring lines of equal ice time like last year and have Marleau play on the PP with Matthews and Marner. The opposite of disappointing in my opinion.

 

[Menzinger]

Fehr will get waived in the hope that someone grabs him. He may then get recalled.

Yeah that seems likely. Would be great to get some cap relief if say vegas took him.