Confirmed with Link: Leafs re-sign Nazem Kadri to a 4.1M/1Yr deal

[tml19]

That's what this thread is all about.

Re: Confirmed with Link: Leafs re-sign Nazem Kadri to a 4.1M/1Yr deal.

No one knows what the reason was for his signing this contract whether Kadri wanted a bridge contract to prove his worth and a bigger better contract, or Management wanting a bridge contract, to see if he is worth a big contract.

Personally I don't think the Leafs are going to be handing out long-term contracts and especially high-priced contracts, at this time and they want to have lots of cap room, to sign players for the rebuild, as well as introducing prospects into the Leafs line-up.

I think maximum 3 years and no more than 5 million per and I don't think they will be signing players like Stamkos at this time, this is going to be a long-term rebuild and it's more about bringing in players like Marner and Nylander, to become the front line players.

If there is ever a time to sign a player like Stamkos its now. The leafs have cap flexibility for the next ~6 years or so and have the chance to have their core players on ELC/RFA deals.
They can have a loaded forward group like:

JVR- Marner/Stamkos -Marner/Stamkos
Brown - Nylander - Kapenen
Leipsic - Kadri - Bracco
Bailey - Gauthier - Hyman

Obviously not all of these prospects will work out like we want but most should.

Adding Stamkos makes them a much deeper team in a few years by bumping down players like Kadri and Nylander down the depth chart and add some great young leadership on a player who has been on a cup contending team. For that I would not hesitate on giving him a 7-8 year contract at 12M per.

 

[2badknees]

I don't think there's any question about Kadri's talent, or even past productivity. He's been producing well as a second line C, and has the talent to have an even higher ceiling.

The only issue is his character, and whether the Leafs want to be tied to it on an LTD. I hope whatever the Leafs see that they strongly dislike gets taken care of this year, cause he's a decent talent. But you can't have your developing kids around a guy that won't buy in.

 

[Budsfan]

If there is ever a time to sign a player like Stamkos its now. The leafs have cap flexibility for the next ~6 years or so and have the chance to have their core players on ELC/RFA deals.
They can have a loaded forward group like:

JVR- Marner/Stamkos -Marner/Stamkos
Brown - Nylander - Kapenen
Leipsic - Kadri - Bracco
Bailey - Gauthier - Hyman

Obviously not all of these prospects will work out like we want but most should.

Adding Stamkos makes them a much deeper team in a few years by bumping down players like Kadri and Nylander down the depth chart and add some great young leadership on a player who has been on a cup contending team. For that I would not hesitate on giving him a 7-8 year contract at 12M per.

I don't see signing Stamkos at this time, we would be tying up too much cap and restricting our ability to rebuild down the road.

Do I like Stamkos no question but we are putting ourselves back in a big contract situation like Kessel's and no I'm not comparing Stamkos to Kessel, just the contract, this team will be rebuilding for 3-5 years and if you sign Stamkos, he in all likelihood, would be looking for another big contract, in that time period and will be in the 30 ish area.

He's the type of player you add, when you have the supporting cast to play around him, now having said that, the Leafs may sign him for the star factor and to draw in customers and interest in a long rebuild but as a player with a big long-term contract ,it would certainly restrict the framing of our team, also the uncertainty of our Dollar and possible recession looming, Cap may not rise very much, if at all, over the period of any large contacts.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Personally, I have a problem with the way people on this board relates to facts and opinion. Pookie makes a decent argument for his case, sure, but I really dislike it when people talk about facts ("Look at what you know") only to follow it up with talking about something ultimately subjective, or at least requiring a much more complex analysis, ie a players performance last season.

I said the following just on the last page:



There are very good reasons to dispute the idea of Kadri having a bad season on ice. Like I ended the quote with, there's only one real reason anyone would want to ignore opportunity and context and that's to make the analysis inaccurate enough that it'll fit one's preferred opinion, in this case that he had a bad season.

I can further that case if anybody is not convinced.

This season is a big one for Kadri. Most analysis suggests that he'll be given opportunity that he's never received before. He'll likely get 1st line ES and PP time. If he shows he can handle it, then we probably screwed up giving him a 1 year deal, because he'll get a significant raise.

If he struggles to reach the point totals and overall expectations of a low-end 1c, we may need to re-evaluate our position on him going forward.

I personally think he's in line for a career year. Just the subtraction of Clarkson alone is enough to boost his point totals. Now that he's far and away our best option at 1c, he should benefit considerably from the increased opportunity, and improvement in linemates.

 

[Pookie]

This season is a big one for Kadri. Most analysis suggests that he'll be given opportunity that he's never received before. He'll likely get 1st line ES and PP time. If he shows he can handle it, then we probably screwed up giving him a 1 year deal, because he'll get a significant raise.

If he struggles to reach the point totals and overall expectations of a low-end 1c, we may need to re-evaluate our position on him going forward.

I personally think he's in line for a career year. Just the subtraction of Clarkson alone is enough to boost his point totals. Now that he's far and away our best option at 1c, he should benefit considerably from the increased opportunity, and improvement in linemates.

You would hope this to be the case. He has a chance to really cash in and take his game to the next level.

It really is up to him now. Most of us would want that kind of control over our destiny. Let's see what he's got.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I thought his analysis made sense.

Dispute it if you like, trying to belittle doesn't win an argument.

If you think he's making sense that's great. Personally when I read stuff like this:

Especially considering that they have put a number of journeymen (or players with potential) on one year try out contracts, including UFAs… Matthais, Parenteau, Arcobello, Panik and the max any UFA got was 2 years for Winnik and Hunwick.

The Tryout contract is clearly a calculated team philosophy.

I think to myself that the train is off the tracks. But if you really think that there is some sense in comparing Kadri to guys like Panik etc. then feel free to enlighten us as I doubt that I'm the only one thinking WTF.

I wouldn't bother trying too hard though. Pookie has some dislike for Kadri for reasons I'm not aware of. This is old news and I'm not expecting it to change anytime soon.

I like this deal for the Leafs and for Kadri. They are giving Kadri a chance to really prove himself and then sign him to a long term deal. Kadri fits the mold of the new Leafs very well so there's absolutely no reason to move him. He'll get a long term deal next year, it just depends on how much.

Kadri knows he's not worth the big payout yet, so it's worthwhile for him to prove it this season. If he ends up plateauing as a 50 point 2c, then he'll get a 4.5m-5m deal anyway, so it's worth it for him to go for a 1c job this year for a bigger contract. He has the right opportunity on this team that's for sure.

One way or the other the Leafs will know what they have in Kadri after next season.

Agree with all of this. And your money analysis is bang on IMO - he's gonna get paid. Keep playing the way he has and he'll get in the 5m range for sure. Take a step forward (now that it looks like he won't be stuck behind Bozak by default) and he could get a lot more.

Looks like stats that are right in line with second-line centers. Also looks right in line with other 7th overalls in other draft years. Why don't you show us a better player we could have taken with 7th overall in 2009? You can't.

Oh, and he's 24 years old, what is it with you and never getting his age correct?

Facts are a thing with some people. Kadri in indeed doing fine for a 7th round pick. I've asked this before but nobody has ventured an answer - why is there so many people on Kadri's case and no one says a peep about JVR? He was drafted 2nd overall, is older than Kadri, is his peformance really that much better relative to Kadri that there is nothing to criticize? Or is there some other reason that people hate on Kadri?

This season is a big one for Kadri. Most analysis suggests that he'll be given opportunity that he's never received before. He'll likely get 1st line ES and PP time. If he shows he can handle it, then we probably screwed up giving him a 1 year deal, because he'll get a significant raise.

If he struggles to reach the point totals and overall expectations of a low-end 1c, we may need to re-evaluate our position on him going forward.

I personally think he's in line for a career year. Just the subtraction of Clarkson alone is enough to boost his point totals. Now that he's far and away our best option at 1c, he should benefit considerably from the increased opportunity, and improvement in linemates.

I agree. I think Kadri will have a great year and earn a huge pay day. Hopefully he'll be a Leaf for many years to come. I cringe when I see people say Kadri is expendable because Marner, Nylander etc. Those guys aren't in the NHL yet, it's not entirely clear when they will be, it will take them years to develop and having a guy like Kadri to learn from will be a huge benefit to them.

 

[Pookie]

.... having a guy like Kadri to learn from will be a huge benefit to them.

That's a massive assumption that Shanahan isn't ready to make yet. Kadri himself has to develop into a role model before others will follow in his footsteps.

This is his chance to shine. If he has the character you say he does, he will seize the opportunity.

 

[Purity*]

I agree. I think Kadri will have a great year and earn a huge pay day. Hopefully he'll be a Leaf for many years to come. I cringe when I see people say Kadri is expendable because Marner, Nylander etc. Those guys aren't in the NHL yet, it's not entirely clear when they will be, it will take them years to develop and having a guy like Kadri to learn from will be a huge benefit to them.

I cringe even more when they also add in this blank assumption that Stamkos is coming to Toronto to push Kadri out the door.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I cringe even more when they also add in this blank assumption that Stamkos is coming to Toronto to push Kadri out the door.

Haha me too. It's so dumb too, centres usually have no trouble moving to wing so the idea of us having too many centres is ridiculous. I hope Marner and Nylander both develop as centres and we have those two along with Kadri and Gauthier all playing center for us. Strength down the middle baby!

 

[dballislife2]

imo we already know kadris skill...leafs might give bozak the better wingers to up his production and trade value...and continue to give kadri horrible wingers to play with like the past 3 years so he signs a more friendly contract

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's a massive assumption that Shanahan isn't ready to make yet. Kadri himself has to develop into a role model before others will follow in his footsteps.

This is his chance to shine. If he has the character you say he does, he will seize the opportunity.

Serious question for you - you say you don't want Kadri to take a diving penalty all year. Why is this a big issue for you? I'll admit ignorance on this, I know Kadri draws a ton of penalties, from what I've seen (and others seem to agree) that's due to his skill.

Does he get assessed many diving penalties? Is it so many that it cancels out the penalties he draws? I know Den Cherry is a Kadri fan and he hates diving.

Since you brought it up, perhaps you can present some facts showing us why this is a notable issue You could start with telling us how many diving penalties Kadri has been nailed with.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Facts are a thing with some people. Kadri in indeed doing fine for a 7th round pick. I've asked this before but nobody has ventured an answer - why is there so many people on Kadri's case and no one says a peep about JVR? He was drafted 2nd overall, is older than Kadri, is his peformance really that much better relative to Kadri that there is nothing to criticize? Or is there some other reason that people hate on Kadri?

I keep answering you there are threads about JVR about how lazy etc. I gather people just don't like Schenn and JVR and his issues are better than Schenn and his issues.

 

[Menzinger]

Serious question for you - you say you don't want Kadri to take a diving penalty all year. Why is this a big issue for you? I'll admit ignorance on this, I know Kadri draws a ton of penalties, from what I've seen (and others seem to agree) that's due to his skill.

Does he get assessed many diving penalties? Is it so many that it cancels out the penalties he draws? I know Den Cherry is a Kadri fan and he hates diving.

Since you brought it up, perhaps you can present some facts showing us why this is a notable issue You could start with telling us how many diving penalties Kadri has been nailed with.

The amount of penalties Kadri manages to.draw from the other team is very high - leads to lots of Leaf powsr plays. I can't imagine how any Leaf fan could complain about such a thing.

 

[Daisy Jane]

The amount of penalties Kadri manages to.draw from the other team is very high - leads to lots of Leaf powsr plays. I can't imagine how any Leaf fan could complain about such a thing.

some people don't like diving, regardless if it = powerplay time

 

[Pholus]

imo we already know kadris skill...leafs might give bozak the better wingers to up his production and trade value...and continue to give kadri horrible wingers to play with like the past 3 years so he signs a more friendly contract

To be fair, looking at the Leafs roster, I would say that Lupul is one of the "better wingers" that the Leafs have. Not to sure how much you can up Bozak's production/value when you can no longer force him to play beside an elite scoring winger anymore.

 

[Pholus]

Serious question for you - you say you don't want Kadri to take a diving penalty all year. Why is this a big issue for you? I'll admit ignorance on this, I know Kadri draws a ton of penalties, from what I've seen (and others seem to agree) that's due to his skill.

Does he get assessed many diving penalties? Is it so many that it cancels out the penalties he draws? I know Den Cherry is a Kadri fan and he hates diving.

Since you brought it up, perhaps you can present some facts showing us why this is a notable issue You could start with telling us how many diving penalties Kadri has been nailed with.

According to this website, Kadri was assessed a total of 0 penalties for diving during the 2014-15 season: http://scoutingtherefs.com/nhl-divingembellishment-list-2014-15/

 

[Budsfan]

The amount of penalties Kadri manages to.draw from the other team is very high - leads to lots of Leaf powsr plays. I can't imagine how any Leaf fan could complain about such a thing.

some people don't like diving, regardless if it = powerplay time

They are cracking down on diving and that leads to our team taking penalties and the refs are well aware of who those divers are and will watch a lot more closely, to any infraction.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The amount of penalties Kadri manages to.draw from the other team is very high - leads to lots of Leaf powsr plays. I can't imagine how any Leaf fan could complain about such a thing.

I'm just trying to give Pookie a chance. If he does have some facts to share I'll keep an open mind. I'm not holding my breath though and his critireria seems pretty arbitrary - one diving penalty and Kadri fails according to him.

some people don't like diving, regardless if it = powerplay time

I remember you answered me once, I thought you were kidding Maybe I've just never noticed, I rarely dig past the front page of this place. Seems like Kadri is always on the front page for some reason.

 

[Gary Nylund]

According to this website, Kadri was assessed a total of 0 penalties for diving during the 2014-15 season: http://scoutingtherefs.com/nhl-divingembellishment-list-2014-15/

Hmm, and here I thought maybe I was missing something.

Over to you Pookie ...

 

[Menzinger]

I'm just trying to give Pookie a chance. If he does have some facts to share I'll keep an open mind. I'm not holding my breath though and his critireria seems pretty arbitrary - one diving penalty and Kadri fails according to him.

Oh, I know.

I just think it's a weird objection in the first place for a player. Like complaining they score too many goals

 

[Daisy Jane]

I remember you answered me once, I thought you were kidding Maybe I've just never noticed, I rarely dig past the front page of this place. Seems like Kadri is always on the front page for some reason.

Nope - dead seriously. the Apologist had two that I know of, and there have been a couple that get merged into other pages. they are there, and there are a lot of people who think he is lazy (me) and doesn't use his size a lot (me) and we'd be better off trading him (me). but a lot of people like his deal because it's a "sweetheart" deal (and like I mentioned, because he's basically linked with Schenn - he's better(ish) than Schenn ergo while people may not like him, he's still better than what we had).

Kadri i think is always polarising. Now. I have my problems with him too, again as I've mentioned, not something I would continuously hammer him over the head over. I have stated a few times, I think a reason why Kadri hasn't been traded or moved on from is because he is clearly talented and I think that saved him from being tossed into a trade package. (one of the smartest things Nonis did in his tenure). and I won't diminish that he does improve on little things, every year.

As I stated before, I don't mind that Kadri didn't get the big contract this go around, mostly because I don't think they need to.and I'll be the first to admit it is hard for me sometimes to remember/adjust for the new financial market and while I do try v. hard not to get wrapped up in New Shiny Toy Syndrome, I do think (regardless of what Shanahan says), that there is a really strong chance Kadri (and a lot of others) on this team won't be on the team when the Leafs are ready to compete. Now if Kadri wants to be a part of that veteran leadership he really needs to step up his game a lot which is what management is hoping for.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a bad/negative thing. (some people take that stance), i just take it for what it is. If given the chances that Babcock will more than likely give him and he shines, that's a yay (and it is very evident that the Leafs don't mind paying a little extra, to have that peace of mind). If it's more than they like then you can trade his rights. if, for whatever crazy reason he's being amazing, and they want to trade him at deadline day, then yay . like the only way this is a bad thing is if he totally falls flat on his face which, while possible, is very unlikely to happen.

 

[Pookie]

Are on to the diversionary nitpicking topic of diving now?

I don't think Kadri has a diving fine to his name. Never said he did. In response to what would make this season a success, I said:

Do not be assessed a diving penalty all year

I didn't think I would need to translate that but it means that in the 2015-16 season, I do not want to see any penalties for diving from this (or any) Leaf player. Of course you could always just make up what I said if that suits you better.

As a leader in drawing penalties he does have a rep in this league as a diver as Crosby's famous HBO exchange with Phanuef illustrates:

SID: “A guy runnin’ an elbow up through my head, that’s OK too, right?”j

DION: “Who did?”

SID: “Kadri. [Explitive] dummy. Then he acts like he got shot.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...ns-hbo-24-7-calling-nazem-055037887--nhl.html

Diving isn't my cup of tea. I don't want any potential leader to do it. What else you got Gary?

 

[Purity*]

Are on to the diversionary nitpicking topic of diving now?

I don't think Kadri has a diving fine to his name. Never said he did. In response to what would make this season a success, I said:



I didn't think I would need to translate that but it means that in the 2015-16 season, I do not want to see any penalties for diving from this (or any) Leaf player. Of course you could always just make up what I said if that suits you better.

As a leader in drawing penalties he does have a rep in this league as a diver as Crosby's famous HBO exchange with Phanuef illustrates:

SID: “A guy runnin’ an elbow up through my head, that’s OK too, right?â€j

DION: “Who did?â€

SID: “Kadri. [Explitive] dummy. Then he acts like he got shot.â€

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...ns-hbo-24-7-calling-nazem-055037887--nhl.html

Diving isn't my cup of tea. I don't want any potential leader to do it. What else you got Gary?

That's the best evidence you can come up with? Crosby whining? You gotta do better than that. Crosby whines about everything, are you new or something?

LA Kings have won 2 cups behind Mr. Olympic diver himself Dustin Brown and it seems to make no difference whatsoever. And Kadri doesn't have anywhere near the rep that Brown has around the league, not even close.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nope - dead seriously. the Apologist had two that I know of, and there have been a couple that get merged into other pages. they are there, and there are a lot of people who think he is lazy (me) and doesn't use his size a lot (me) and we'd be better off trading him (me). but a lot of people like his deal because it's a "sweetheart" deal (and like I mentioned, because he's basically linked with Schenn - he's better(ish) than Schenn ergo while people may not like him, he's still better than what we had).

Kadri i think is always polarising. Now. I have my problems with him too, again as I've mentioned, not something I would continuously hammer him over the head over. I have stated a few times, I think a reason why Kadri hasn't been traded or moved on from is because he is clearly talented and I think that saved him from being tossed into a trade package. (one of the smartest things Nonis did in his tenure). and I won't diminish that he does improve on little things, every year.

As I stated before, I don't mind that Kadri didn't get the big contract this go around, mostly because I don't think they need to.and I'll be the first to admit it is hard for me sometimes to remember/adjust for the new financial market and while I do try v. hard not to get wrapped up in New Shiny Toy Syndrome, I do think (regardless of what Shanahan says), that there is a really strong chance Kadri (and a lot of others) on this team won't be on the team when the Leafs are ready to compete. Now if Kadri wants to be a part of that veteran leadership he really needs to step up his game a lot which is what management is hoping for.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a bad/negative thing. (some people take that stance), i just take it for what it is. If given the chances that Babcock will more than likely give him and he shines, that's a yay (and it is very evident that the Leafs don't mind paying a little extra, to have that peace of mind). If it's more than they like then you can trade his rights. if, for whatever crazy reason he's being amazing, and they want to trade him at deadline day, then yay . like the only way this is a bad thing is if he totally falls flat on his face which, while possible, is very unlikely to happen.

Yeah I'm fine with a one year deal too, I think Kadri will have a great year and it will cost us more to sign him but it's not the end of the world. It's also not clear that it wasn't Kadri who insisted on the one year deal, it's quite possible that both sides were in fact willing to do say a 5 year deal but just couldn't agree on the money.

And I agree with you about JVR. There's something about a big man who doesn't play like one that's quite annoying.

Are on to the diversionary nitpicking topic of diving now?

I don't think Kadri has a diving fine to his name. Never said he did. In response to what would make this season a success, I said:

I didn't think I would need to translate that but it means that in the 2015-16 season, I do not want to see any penalties for diving from this (or any) Leaf player. Of course you could always just make up what I said if that suits you better.

As a leader in drawing penalties he does have a rep in this league as a diver as Crosby's famous HBO exchange with Phanuef illustrates:

SID: “A guy runnin’ an elbow up through my head, that’s OK too, right?â€j

DION: “Who did?â€

SID: “Kadri. [Explitive] dummy. Then he acts like he got shot.â€

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...ns-hbo-24-7-calling-nazem-055037887--nhl.html

Diving isn't my cup of tea. I don't want any potential leader to do it. What else you got Gary?

You were the one who brought it up. Maybe one day you'll have something other than diversionary nitpicking.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's the best evidence you can come up with? Crosby whining? You gotta do better than that. Crosby whines about everything, are you new or something?

LA Kings have won 2 cups behind Mr. Olympic diver himself Dustin Brown and it seems to make no difference whatsoever. And Kadri doesn't have anywhere near the rep that Brown has around the league, not even close.

Nailed it!