Leafs on ice results now and playoffs - Who is more to blame?

[The Iceman]

BLAME, there is no blame.

they are what their record says they are. Hopefully they get better.

 

[thewave]

We need to see a Babcock change so it is all in the hands of Dubas.
His coach, his choice of heavily paying 4 forwards at the expense of other needed things and his vision.

It's up to Shanny now. Obviously they need a course correction and can fire whoever. I am a new NBA fan just want to watch the Champs play tonight. The Leafs mismanagement is the same mess it always has been.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Curious, how are the fans to play for the crap we are seeing on the ice ?

I am still thinking about this, but mainly because we turn against players too fast and have unrealistic expectations.
For example I don't think Zaitsev was as bad as everyone made him seem and he was always used wrong. Gardiner and Zaitsev did not match as a pair.
We also thought that Babcock was a huge saviour almost carrying the Stanley Cup with him ... and it turned out very wrong.
Also because the arena is always sold out and we never send a message to management that stuff needs to change (talking about bad years).

 

[Guided by Veseys]

All players make mistakes. All coaches make mistakes.
Although minimal, Babcocks inability to make adjustments, primarily with special teams, was the deciding factor in last couple years.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Players have been switched up (but perhaps core make-up needs to be looked at)
Assistants changed
Depth added
Same problems remain

A coach change before looking changing the core of this team

I'd like to see the coaching change made before properly assessing Dubas

 

[All Mod Cons]

Its weird that people knock Dubas for not having the cap space to add depth players, when our depth players have produced like some of the best 3rd and 4th lines in the league lol.

We have like 12 guys on pace for 40 or more points right now... By comparrison, Boston only has 4 guys on pace for more than 20 lol

Tavares started slow, Ceci has been bad, and the goaltending has been terrible to start.

The rest of it is easily fixed by some coaching adjustments.

Dubas did a great job turning over parts of the roster and getting effective depth players.

I personally hold Dubas accountable (along with Babcock and the players) for "fixing" our defensive issues via Ceci and Barrie. Those two defensemen are the polar opposites of the type of defensemen we should've targetted in my opinion. Also, his inability to acquire an NHL backup goalie during his tenure thus far

 

[ToneDog]

It is on Dubas for me because I do not think you can win with such a soft team. Yes Babs has made some questionable moves/mistakes but what is he supposed to do if he is given a roster that you cannot win with ?? The team clearly needed a shutdown dman and yet Dubas acquires Tyson Barrie. Everybody and his grandmother knew the team needed a better backup, yet he stuck with Hutch because he knew he would have to cave to Marner,

 

[sparxx87]

I personally hold Dubas accountable (along with Babcock and the players) for "fixing" our defensive issues via Ceci and Barrie. Those two defensemen are the polar opposites of the type of defensemen we should've targetted in my opinion. Also, his inability to acquire an NHL backup goalie during his tenure thus far

100%

But don’t forget he had Curtis McElheinny, one of the better backups in the game and waived him in favour of an AHL goalie.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I personally hold Dubas accountable (along with Babcock and the players) for "fixing" our defensive issues via Ceci and Barrie. Those two defensemen are the polar opposites of the type of defensemen we should've targetted in my opinion. Also, his inability to acquire an NHL backup goalie during his tenure thus far

backup goalie is minimal.

But I'll let you have the defense argument as a base. Which guys should he /could he have gotten instead given our cap situation heading into the summer?

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

100%

But don’t forget he had Curtis McElheinny, one of the better backups in the game and waived him in favour of an AHL goalie.

McElhinney last year on a much better defensive team than the Leafs put up a .912 SV%. Given the same workload as Sparks that only amounts to 6 fewer goals on the season.

He was a below average goalie coming off a career year. We made the right choice and the difference would have maybe resulted in an extra point or two..

 

[ACC1224]

100%

But don’t forget he had Curtis McElheinny, one of the better backups in the game and waived him in favour of an AHL goalie.

It does seem like they've been on a downward spiral since that decision.

 

[Rogue Leader]

It is on Dubas for me because I do not think you can win with such a soft team. Yes Babs has made some questionable moves/mistakes but what is he supposed to do if he is given a roster that you cannot win with ?? The team clearly needed a shutdown dman and yet Dubas acquires Tyson Barrie. Everybody and his grandmother knew the team needed a better backup, yet he stuck with Hutch because he knew he would have to cave to Marner,

The worst thing is that now we have reached a moment that we are truly in cap hell. We can't afford a decent defense or a better backup. And all of the guys producing on the 3rd and 4th lines would need a raise down the road, which we can't afford. The greed of the players has maybe already forseen our downfall.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Babcock needs to dictate the match-ups, not reacting to the opposition.

 

[ToneDog]

The worst thing is that now we have reached a moment that we are truly in cap hell. We can't afford a decent defense or a better backup. And all of the guys producing on the 3rd and 4th lines would need a raise down the road, which we can't afford. The greed of the players has maybe already forseen our downfall.

Exactly, Dubas has painted himself into a corner and has very little wiggle room to change the makeup of the team, even if he wanted to. I liken Dubas to the Swiss who I have worked with and are very intelligent people. One of our managers said that if they had a plan and it was taking them into a wall, they would not deviate from the plan.

 

[GoonieFace]

Dubas thinks he is too smart and ahead of the game. He has cornered himself with locking up these RFA's long term who have yet to show they can win anything. The defence is a mess, thats on him. They are too soft, thats on him. That being said, Babcock has made questionable in game decisions, and the players since halfway through last year are barely a .500 team.

I still think Babcock needs to go, and Dubas can hire his coach. That is the only way to go at this point.

 

[sparxx87]

McElhinney last year on a much better defensive team than the Leafs put up a .912 SV%. Given the same workload as Sparks that only amounts to 6 fewer goals on the season.

He was a below average goalie coming off a career year. We made the right choice and the difference would have maybe resulted in an extra point or two..

Talk to any goalie coach and they’ll tell you Garrett Sparks isn’t an NHL goalie. It’s blatantly obvious if you know what to look for and it’s been consistent since before the decision was made.

Sparks is big and athletic, and covers the bottom of the net well. That can work in the AHL... But he’s one of the most overactive goalies I’ve ever seen in the NHL, he doesn’t anticipate very well, he doesn’t have good hands, he doesn’t battle through traffic and screens and on top it all, he has a terrible attitude.

He’s an AHL goalie, through and though, and it’s pretty concerning the guy making the decisions didn’t know that.

Garrett Sparks will never be more than a tank commander at the NHL level. For that, the Leafs should be forever grateful. We all really like Auston Matthews, so thank you, Garrett.

 

[Trapper]

Exactly, Dubas has painted himself into a corner and has very little wiggle room to change the makeup of the team, even if he wanted to. I liken Dubas to the Swiss who I have worked with and are very intelligent people. One of our managers said that if they had a plan and it was taking them into a wall, they would not deviate from the plan.

The players we have invested in all suffer from the same issues.
It's like Kessel. You can win with Kessel but that's because Crosby isn't Kessel. Neither is Malkin or Letang. If the all suffered from the same thing it's doubtful they win.

Having skill is great. But I still maintain 1 of the 3 need to be moved to bring in a player that doesn't suffer from the same thing. To start.

 

[The Blueprint]

Because the team struggles to defend and Dubas didn’t improve it, he actually made it worse?

Jake Gardiner is a far better defensive player that Tyson Barrie, and Codi Ceci for Nikita Zaitsev was a lateral move. He removed the tiny bit of sandpaper in Kadri and replaced him with another soft 5’10 player.

It’s unbelievable some of you don’t see the flaws in his thinking. He’s trying to reinvent the wheel and some of you are apparently betting it happens in their 5 year window. Good luck with that.

Everyone deserves blame. Dubas in particular.

I don't think he's trying to re invent the wheel.. Its not like there were a bunch of big defensive RHDs for sale in the off season. It's not easy to completely re-vamp a D core in an offseason or two.

Kadri wasn't going to work as a 3 c, and Babcock doesn't seem to like stacking lines so he was no longer a fit. I loved Naz's snarl but at the end of the day he potentially cost us both Boston series because he didn't keep himself in check.

As far as kerfoot is concerned.. he's looked good to me so far.. as a matter of fact the bottom 6 has looked great. It's the top 6 that have left a lot to be desired, specifically 5 on 5.

And I'll agree with you on Barrie. He's had a tough start. And for the record I always liked Jake's game!

 

[TheTotalPackage]

The players are the ones that are ultimately playing.

Babcock and Dubas each deserve their fair of criticism. Babcock is stubborn and set in his ways at times. This current edition has Dubas's fingerprints all over it now.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Exactly, Dubas has painted himself into a corner and has very little wiggle room to change the makeup of the team, even if he wanted to. I liken Dubas to the Swiss who I have worked with and are very intelligent people. One of our managers said that if they had a plan and it was taking them into a wall, they would not deviate from the plan.

Meh he could easily move Nylander and that alone would be a big shake-up.
But in season, I think one of AJ or Kap will go as we have guys who can step in for a lot less.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Talk to any goalie coach and they’ll tell you Garrett Sparks isn’t an NHL goalie. It’s blatantly obvious if you know what to look for and it’s been consistent since before the decision was made.

Sparks is big and athletic, and covers the bottom of the net well. That can work in the AHL... But he’s one of the most overactive goalies I’ve ever seen in the NHL, he doesn’t anticipate very well, he doesn’t have good hands, he doesn’t battle through traffic and screens and on top it all, he has a terrible attitude.

He’s an AHL goalie, through and though, and it’s pretty concerning the guy making the decisions didn’t know that.

Garrett Sparks will never be more than a tank commander at the NHL level. For that, the Leafs should be forever grateful. We all really like Auston Matthews, so thank you, Garrett.

So you're saying that at no point in the development of Garret Sparks, did the Leafs meet with a goalie coach above the level you would find at your local rink, and discuss whether or not they thought he could make the jump to the next level?

I didn't like Sparks but I'd like to think they at least managed that.

 

[Cobra777]

It is on Dubas for me because I do not think you can win with such a soft team. Yes Babs has made some questionable moves/mistakes but what is he supposed to do if he is given a roster that you cannot win with ?? The team clearly needed a shutdown dman and yet Dubas acquires Tyson Barrie. Everybody and his grandmother knew the team needed a better backup, yet he stuck with Hutch because he knew he would have to cave to Marner,

THIS, 90% of this team has no bite all the same kind of soft players that get thrown off their game by a hard fore checking, hard cycling team. When things don't go right for the skill guys on this team it seams like they revert to just going through the motions and mailing it in by puck watching

 

[ToneDog]

Meh he could easily move Nylander and that alone would be a big shake-up.
But in season, I think one of AJ or Kap will go as we have guys who can step in for a lot less.

Yes he can make some moves as long as the dollars work. The team has enough soft players and for that reason Nylander is the one who should be turned into a dman (sooner than later). Other than that tap in, he was invisible last night. As he usually is against teams that grind.

 

[ToneDog]

THIS, 90% of this team has no bite all the same kind of soft players that get thrown off their game by a hard fore checking, hard cycling team. When things don't go right for the skill guys on this team it seams like they revert to just going through the motions and mailing it in by puck watching

A good example was against the Caps. Down 2-0, it took about 10+ minutes for the Caps to take a 4-2 lead. The league is not stupid. Everybody knows how to beat this Leafs team.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Yes he can make some moves as long as the dollars work. The team has enough soft players and for that reason Nylander is the one who should be turned into a dman (sooner than later). Other than that tap in, he was invisible last night. As he usually is against teams that grind.

yeah for someone who wanted to dominate.......
I've been backing him but i's becoming harder and harder