Post-Game Talk: Leafs no shows in game 1. Trail series 1-0

[Dekes For Days]

so starting korpisalo is still a mistake huh?

I actually never said it was a mistake, it was one game, and we don't know how Merzlikins would have done, so not sure why you're attempting a "gotcha".

 

[Notsince67]

If we really needed the cap space and had to move on from Tavares, I would probably look to exposing him in the expansion draft as a creative solution. We wouldn't get assets back, but the cap space saved would equate to a ton of purchase power in a flat cap era.

I thought a no trade clause made him exempt from being exposed

 

[Faltorvo]

I mean it certainly does not help when a big part of that line, and the part of the line that probably touches the puck the most, has been wildly ineffective.

I find it interesting that people said Tavares was invisible when he actually made a number of great plays... He set up Mikheyev for one of our better scoring chances in the game. He won 15/17 of his faceoffs (extremely underrated and ridiculously good). He did a pretty good job defensively and his line had the best Corsi on our team. He was even getting into the right areas... He just missed. It happens.

Really, outside of a few bad bounces and a few defensive miscues, Columbus was shut down. Most of their inside opportunities came from one of our defenders getting caught on a pinch once in a while or something like that Dermott bounce at the offensive blue line. Otherwise, they were pretty much just hoping that an Atkinson goal would squeak in. They are not winning many games with heatmaps looking like this, with the vast majority of their shots coming from the outside and above the hash-marks. The Leafs, meanwhile, were forcing their way inside and getting these better opportunities... We just missed or Korpisalo had to make high quality saves.

The Leafs need not get discouraged like most fans are getting discouraged. Nobody expected us to sweep Columbus. Perhaps they expected to win the first game, but the bounces did not go that way this time... Just use it as motivation, keep putting your foot down, and we will score goals and likely win this series.

No,,what i expected was a team that played like they are only 3 losses away from their season ending and now it's down to 2

 

[Shanwhatplan]

what agenda? he is a 11 million dollar player

that just played like a 700k plug

I also believe Marner is overpaid (I’d say by around $3 million or so), but I will look past that if he can bounce back, not only for this round but hopefully a few more rounds.

 

[PromisedLand]

I actually never said it was a mistake, it was one game, and we don't know how Merzlikins would have done, so not sure why you're attempting a "gotcha".

you and @Mess were going at it regarding korpisalo and you clearly suggested that starting korpisalo was not ideal and a mistake

 

[Stand Witness]

Wow four whole playoffs?? THEY'RE STILL KIDS. 22 and 24 year olds. To already be four playoffs in at that age is unheard of for a core of a team. It took Ovechkin what, 13 or 14 years to win? Talk to me when they're pushing 30 and still haven't won. The core in St. Louis took time too. Tarasenko is 28, Pietrangelo is 30, ROR is 29.

This is still the first couple innings of a baseball game. You'd think these guys were all 35 and still failing. We're a looooong way off from panic time.

And no they're obviously not on their ELCs but I was still listening to the same old crap then too. How many people were in here saying we had to win before the extensions or we'd miss the window?

Same old lines about money this and contracts that. There's no substitute for experience no matter what you're paid. It's going to take years and years of losing to gain the experience needed to get over the top. Everybody called O'Rielly a loser too and now he's got a Conn Smythe. Same with Ovie.

Everybody here wants everything yesterday. IT'S NOT REALISTIC.

The more time goes on the more I see the truth in this. I think you need your core to age with a group of younger guys pushing their way in. I think that’s originally what happened with guys like Bozak, JVR, Kadri and Komarov. Guys who had been here for a while with a young group pushing in. That’s when we were our best.

Almost like there needs to “almost” be a changing of the guard. In 2-3 years we need a strong push from young guys... probably would have expected that to be Robertson and company but he arrived earlier than expected.

 

[Stephen]

I thought a no trade clause made him exempt from being exposed

I think that's what it means too, but another season of this, I would expect the organization and him to have a serious heart to heart.

 

[sxvnert]

Wow four whole playoffs?? THEY'RE STILL KIDS. 22 and 24 year olds.

That excuse went out the window when they demanded max dollars.

 

[PromisedLand]

At this point, it feels like the core is Matthews, Rielly and Andersen when he's on.

Compared to the others, Nylander makes relatively little money and would fit in as a first line winger at $7 million per season.

Marner is a major question mark because it feels like he hasn't matured as a player. He seems pretty confident in his arsenal of junior plays and careless"creative" plays like going end to end just to back hand the puck into the corner with no one on the forecheck, or floating soft passes to nowhere and no one. Or managing the puck so casually it's like he's out for a roller hockey session.

Tavares feels like a lost cause. His hands are still excellent but he has no separation speed left, and it feels like his only move with the puck is to stop up, curl and try to dish off the puck before getting swarmed. He's always a step behind on the forecheck and backcheck and the only other thing he brings is a high slot bang bang play or a net front garbage goal. How you squeeze $11 million in value out of this is beyond me.

I kept saying do not sign Tavares and get a #1D instead and I was told to F-Off.

If you think JT is bad now; wait till he is in his 4th year of the the 7 year contract

 

[Stand Witness]

That excuse went out the window when they demanded max dollars.

I definitely agree with this. You want some flexibility in how you are viewed? Well make sure there is 0 arguments that you are overpaid.

 

[Faltorvo]

Wow four whole playoffs?? THEY'RE STILL KIDS. 22 and 24 year olds. To already be four playoffs in at that age is unheard of for a core of a team. It took Ovechkin what, 13 or 14 years to win? Talk to me when they're pushing 30 and still haven't won. The core in St. Louis took time too. Tarasenko is 28, Pietrangelo is 30, ROR is 29.

This is still the first couple innings of a baseball game. You'd think these guys were all 35 and still failing. We're a looooong way off from panic time.

And no they're obviously not on their ELCs but I was still listening to the same old crap then too. How many people were in here saying we had to win before the extensions or we'd miss the window?

Same old lines about money this and contracts that. There's no substitute for experience no matter what you're paid. It's going to take years and years of losing to gain the experience needed to get over the top. Everybody called O'Rielly a loser too and now he's got a Conn Smythe. Same with Ovie.

Everybody here wants everything yesterday. IT'S NOT REALISTIC.

I would back your opinion if the players had the same attitude about their contract demands

BUT they did not, they demanded to be paid like producers/winners and here we are,a cap crunched team

that looks like it won't even qualify for the playoffs.

 

[Rehabguy]

Tavares feels like a lost cause. His hands are still excellent but he has no separation speed left, and it feels like his only move with the puck is to stop up, curl and try to dish off the puck before getting swarmed. He's always a step behind on the forecheck and backcheck and the only other thing he brings is a high slot bang bang play or a net front garbage goal. How you squeeze $11 million in value out of this is beyond me.

He never had separation speed What you describe is how he always played even with the Isles and that's how other teams dealt with him, they swarmed him.

Your team is just too unbalanced. Too much spent on a purportedly vaulted offense with no grinders to do the dirty work. Good luck though for the rest of the playoffs, you never know what may happen.

 

[Dekes For Days]

you and @Mess were going at it regarding korpisalo and you clearly suggested that starting korpisalo was not ideal and a mistake

I made one reply to Mess after he claimed that past stats are irrelevant for making current and future decisions; a ridiculously wrong statement. I didn't say anything about the goalie. What are you talking about?

 

[TMLlegoclub]

I think that's what it means too, but another season of this, I would expect the organization and him to have a serious heart to heart.

I can't think of a bigger PR nightmare than punting Tavares from the team after giving him a retirement contract, and a home town welcome. Like Muzzin, Nylander, Marner, etc. I'm afraid TOR has "made their bed" with JT.

 

[Buds17]

Yea I think if both teams play like this it'll be a 5-game series. Hopefully Leafs can find an edge and it doesn't get that far.

I thought this series was going to go the full five from the start. Hoping I'm wrong and the Leafs go on a three game winning streak. Assuming no CBJ sweep, Game 4 being the day after Game 3 will be interesting. One of the teams will have its season on the line with a minimal amount of rest. Maybe not a unique circumstance, but nevertheless...

 

[Notsince67]

I think that's what it means too, but another season of this, I would expect the organization and him to have a serious heart to heart.

Pretty hard to sell anyone on Seattle right now.

 

[Stephen]

Wow four whole playoffs?? THEY'RE STILL KIDS. 22 and 24 year olds. To already be four playoffs in at that age is unheard of for a core of a team. It took Ovechkin what, 13 or 14 years to win? Talk to me when they're pushing 30 and still haven't won. The core in St. Louis took time too. Tarasenko is 28, Pietrangelo is 30, ROR is 29.

This is still the first couple innings of a baseball game. You'd think these guys were all 35 and still failing. We're a looooong way off from panic time.

And no they're obviously not on their ELCs but I was still listening to the same old crap then too. How many people were in here saying we had to win before the extensions or we'd miss the window?

Same old lines about money this and contracts that. There's no substitute for experience no matter what you're paid. It's going to take years and years of losing to gain the experience needed to get over the top. Everybody called O'Rielly a loser too and now he's got a Conn Smythe. Same with Ovie.

Everybody here wants everything yesterday. IT'S NOT REALISTIC.

You're right. The Leafs are still very young and need more time, but it's also not too early to talk about the evolution of the team either.

To borrow a Washington Capitals analogy, it took them 14 years from the moment they drafted Alexander Ovechkin to lifting the cup. They had to be patient and it was a long building process. But they did also lose guys like Alex Semin, Karl Alzner, Semyon Varlamov, Brooks Laich, Marcus Johansson and others along the way whom they thought would be part of their championship formula... but weren't.

Same with us in Toronto.

 

[Merrrlin]

Tweet from Feb but feels true this morning.

 

[Faltorvo]

Slogans don't prove a thing. I watched the game. I saw only 2 failed zone entries from Marner. I saw little allowance for the BJ to get set up in the dzone. I saw a decent transition game. Marner did dump the puck into the ozone quite a bit as he should have to beat a trap. The problem was there was no chase by his line (missed hyman there).

Look. Matthew had over 23 minutes of EV playing time. Nylander over 20. Marner played just short of 17 minutes. It's Marners fault they didnt score? I'm not buying it. Sell it to someone else.

oh, you mistake me,,,i put it on all the skaters

BUT,,,, i put it more on those that eat huge chunks of the cap because they are "special" players

you gotta get what you pay for and they did not get it last night.

 

[Stephen]

I can't think of a bigger PR nightmare than punting Tavares from the team after giving him a retirement contract, and a home town welcome. Like Muzzin, Nylander, Marner, etc. I'm afraid TOR has "made their bed" with JT.

It happens. Just look at the New York Rangers: Brad Richards getting curbed by the Rangers after signing his retirement contract, Scott Gomez getting dumped by the Rangers after signing a retirement contract, Wade Redden being buried in the minors by the Rangers. And yet, Artemi Panarin.

 

[saffronleaf]

This thread is evidence for why I sometimes avoid HF Boards . . . I watched the whole game on the big screen, thought the Leafs played pretty well overall, just came up a bit short in terms of goals and Andersen played extremely well except for that one that got through (I know, I know). Anyways - my feeling afterward was, we let one slip through, but credit to the BJ's because they played an excellent game, their goalie played really well when he had to, and sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles.

But lo and behold, Leafs posters here think the world is ending, bunch of chicken littles around here . . . and I'm like, whaaaaat?!? Honestly surprised by the reactions of many (not all obviously) here. Must be seeing a different game than what I saw, or just getting too damn emotional and feeling sorry for yourself.

Get over yourselves Leafs Nation (the negative nellies out there) - this is a very good team, and we'll be just fine. We knew this wasn't a 3 game sweep, c'mon now. Pull yourselves together!

You're right. It was a tightly contested team and the better team that deserved to win ended up winning.

It's just that you'd think a team that lost 90% of their talent would not be the better team when compared to a team that shelled out 3 out of the top 4 salaries in the league.

 

[IPS]

Really, outside of a few bad bounces and a few defensive miscues, Columbus was shut down. Most of their inside opportunities came from one of our defenders getting caught on a pinch once in a while or something like that Dermott bounce at the offensive blue line.

Indeed. You could count the number of truly dangerous chances Columbus had on one hand. Freddy just unfortunately let a softy by.

 

[Faltorvo]

Slogans don't prove a thing. I watched the game. I saw only 2 failed zone entries from Marner. I saw little allowance for the BJ to get set up in the dzone. I saw a decent transition game. Marner did dump the puck into the ozone quite a bit as he should have to beat a trap. The problem was there was no chase by his line (missed hyman there).

Look. Matthew had over 23 minutes of EV playing time. Nylander over 20. Marner played just short of 17 minutes. It's Marners fault they didnt score? I'm not buying it. Sell it to someone else.

well that is your problem to the core

you actually think the words i used are "slogans"

you stay in your office where your greatest worry is a paper cut

you will find me at the furnace shoveling coal into it.

 

[TMLlegoclub]

It happens. Just look at the New York Rangers: Brad Richards getting curbed by the Rangers after signing his retirement contract, Scott Gomez getting dumped by the Rangers after signing a retirement contract, Wade Redden being buried in the minors by the Rangers. And yet, Artemi Panarin.

Yes it happens, but Tavares is still contributing. He might very well be an overpaid 2C for the rest of his time in TOR, but his game isn't horrible. He had 47 goals last year. TOR is just going to move on that casually?

 

[saffronleaf]

Best part.......Kadri wins the game for the Avs and Barrie is useless, Kerfoot is a waste.

Dubas is useless and so are half the fans on here that still think we needed to trade Kadri.

I'm sure people will cite some obscure stats to justify Barrie.

I don't even know if a team will hand him a minimum salary.

Like what's he good for?

Ideally you want the best out of Barrie you dress him as your 7th D and use him as a PP specialist.

Kerfoot was solid though idk what can you expect from your third line they were good when given the chance I'm happy with that.