Post-Game Talk: Leafs no shows in game 1. Trail series 1-0

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Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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Just making example.
Beside at the very least, don’t think anyone is saying Robertson is another Bracco and Petan and complain why Dubas drafted another small skill player....
If Robertson turns out like DeBrincat, people will say that was a great pick, if he turns out like Bracco, that’s a waste pick and Dubas should have drafted bigger players bc at least he can play in the bottom six instead of someone who can only play in the top 6....
oh, i think you are missing the point

it's not about "big"

it's about attitude,sacrifice,battle,heart,lvl of give a sht
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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A lot of players start declining in their early 30's. We have Tavares till 35. It's very likely he'll start declining soon. And it's very likely that Nylander/Marner will continue to improve. If we lose one of them due to the JT contract, it reinforces that the JT signing was a mistake.
Players also get better with age too. We can’t worry something that have not happen yet. Look at Bergeron and Marchand, both are better with age.
Also if Dubas trade away Willie, Marner or both, good players are coming back. Those players might help the Leafs win a Cup.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
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Players also get better with age too. We can’t worry something that have not happen yet. Look at Bergeron and Marchand, both are better with age.
Also if Dubas trade away Willie, Marner or both, good players are coming back. Those players might help the Leafs win a Cup.
I wouldn't expect Tavares to improve with age, but he's a hard worker who has thrived at every level despite average skating, so I don't see a cliff in his future production as he reaches his early/mid-30s.
 

Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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A lot of players start declining in their early 30's. We have Tavares till 35. It's very likely he'll start declining soon. And it's very likely that Nylander/Marner will continue to improve. If we lose one of them due to the JT contract, it reinforces that the JT signing was a mistake.
no, i don't believe it is very likely they improve

is it possible,yes,,,very likely,IDK

and lots of star lvl players do well into their 30s,,like sid/ovi/malk
 

Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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And I’m not saying Marner should be paid what he’s being paid (I said around $3 million too much). And I agree wholeheartedly about strength down the middle, I just don’t feel that we needed to spend $22 million on 2 centers.
I don’t know how to compare the salary cap situation we’re in (how much our 4 forwards are taking up compared to those teams top 4 forwards you just showed me), but I know ours is out of whack.
wn 1 m too much,,AM 1.6 too much,,MM 2.4m too much=5m open cap

5m + 4.45 for ceci(LOLZ) = 1 solid D man, AP as a free agent?=9.45m?
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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oh, i think you are missing the point

it's not about "big"

it's about attitude,sacrifice,battle,heart,lvl of give a sht

my point is results is the only measuring stick and used drafting as an example if the player Dubas drafted turned out to be good players, that’s a good draft choice despite the players size but if he couldn’t make the NHL, that’s a bad draft choice and people might say why Dubas kept drafting small players and not big players....

No doubt you want players with attitude like you mentioned and I agree with you, but
did the Leafs not tried hard last night? It was as close as a game it could be. Leafs were limiting the opposing team chances. There will always be incidents here and there that we can point to this player didn’t do that or didn’t do this(can say the same about BJs players too) but overall I think the team showed they wanted to win but just couldn’t do it. Don’t think they gave up.
They loss the game but that doesn’t mean they were outmatched to the point that they have no chance in game 2 and the rest of the series.
I am by no mean happy with their loss but I am also not losing hope that they can win the series.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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Don’t think JT will be a 11mil player 3-4yrs down the line but he should still be a very effective C, just look at Bergeron.
Marner needs to a better shot to be worth his contract.
If you are going to make 10-11 mil as a forward, you must be able to score 30 goals IMO.

At present, you keep Nylander, who not only is a better goal scorer, can also play center in the future (when Tavares contract is up)
Marner at 11 mil could revamp the D and you get wingers that are harder to play against, forecheck and D IQ.

If you were deciding to take that route on a prime piece change to team dynamic.
 
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TML1967

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Jul 20, 2010
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  • Matthews looked pretty good, but im still waiting for him to go 'beast mode'. You could see him a couple times get mad and just out muscle the CLB D to a puck.
  • If not for an amazing save, Matthews would have had the game 1-0.
  • Marner, looks like he has lost a step during the break. He finished the last month playing pretty well
  • Nylnader is still playing a style that annoys tons of the Leafs fans, but he gets and keeps the puck a good amount.
  • Tavares has never been fast, but I wonder if the lack of foot speed is only going to become a bigger issue the more we see him in the playoffs against a hard checking team
  • Kerfoot, Kapanen both looked pretty solid on the 3rd line.
  • Robertson had a few nice shifts (could have scored in the first few minutes of the game) but was easily separated from the puck. Got to wonder how he does this year without putting on more muscle.
  • Reilly looked good. Ceci looked like an AHL all star, woof
  • Dermott was pretty impressive, Barrie wasnt as bad as I was expecting, but thats a low bar
  • Muzzin looked solid, Holl looked like a guy playing in the top 4 only because of injury. Needs to get his early season swagger back.
  • If Anderson gives you that type of performance every night, you should win the cup.

From the practice lines, im happy to see Engval coming in over Gauthier. 4th line barely played, and when they did he is just obviously way to damn slow.
At least Engval can be on the PK and provide some speed. Means one of the top 9 guys can take a quick breather while we are short handed.
Engval, Kapanen, Marner, Kerfoot are all quick and solid PKers it seems.

Overall, disappointing game overall.
CLB seemed to be more 'ready to go' for playoff hockey. Every one of their forwards and D were prepared to outskate, outhit, and outwork the Leafs.
If this continues, gonna be reallllllly hard for the Leafs to find a path to victory.
 

NinjaKick

life as a leafs fan
Dec 5, 2018
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if we're gonna lose... lets lose the first game and get it out of the way...
I'm confident the boys will make the right adjustments and bounce back
 
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Durrr

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Sep 11, 2012
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Name 1 player that was made the 3rd highest paid forward in the league on the shortest term of anyone in the top 25 highest aavs for a career high of less than 80 points, besides auston matthews. I'll wait.

The guy had 47 goals/80 points this year with freaking 12 games left to be played as a 22 year old, are you kidding me right now? No one cares if you're waiting because your point is bad.

There is a lot to hate about this Leafs team, but Matthews and his contract ain't it. Same goes for Nylander.
 
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Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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I wouldn't expect Tavares to improve with age, but he's a hard worker who has thrived at every level despite average skating, so I don't see a cliff in his future production as he reaches his early/mid-30s.
Realistically, I think JT will still be a very solid 2C on the Leafs toward his end of the contract and would be 1C if not for AM.
Can his production justify his 11mil, probably not but he won’t be an anchor to the team like some are suggesting.
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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If you are going to make 10-11 mil as a forward, you must be able to score 30 goals IMO.

At present, you keep Nylander, who not only is a better goal scorer, can also play center in the future (when Tavares contract is up)
Marner at 11 mil could revamp the D and you get wingers that are harder to play against, forecheck and D IQ.

If you were deciding to take that route on a prime piece change to team dynamic.
I agree, from a Cap stand point, trading Marner can and will create cap space for 2 good players(winger and Dman).
 

Shanwhatplan

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Mar 31, 2019
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wn 1 m too much,,AM 1.6 too much,,MM 2.4m too much=5m open cap

5m + 4.45 for ceci(LOLZ) = 1 solid D man, AP as a free agent?=9.45m?

So if the pandemic had not happened, and the salary cap would have continued to go up (even at minimum expectations), would we still have been able to resign Rielly, Hyman, and Mikeyev if doing what you just said? If not, I know it makes way more sense than what Dubas actually did.
 

Stamkos4life

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Oct 25, 2018
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The guy had 47 goals this year with freaking 12 games left to be played, are you kidding me right now? No one cares if you're waiting because your point is bad.

Rofl

Over the last 2 seasons, auston ranks 15th in ppg and 19 in points and is 4th in goals.

That is not very impressive for the 3rd highest paid player on the shortest term of anyone in the top 25 highest paid players.

This is a salary cap league and you can't just give money away.

For 11.6 mil, we should've gotten 8 years.

The contract dubas gave matthews has literally never been done before.

You might not care about that but then I question if you are even a leaf fan. Do you not care about winning?
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
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my point is results is the only measuring stick and used drafting as an example if the player Dubas drafted turned out to be good players, that’s a good draft choice despite the players size but if he couldn’t make the NHL, that’s a bad draft choice and people might say why Dubas kept drafting small players and not big players....

No doubt you want players with attitude like you mentioned and I agree with you, but
did the Leafs not tried hard last night? It was as close as a game it could be. Leafs were limiting the opposing team chances. There will always be incidents here and there that we can point to this player didn’t do that or didn’t do this(can say the same about BJs players too) but overall I think the team showed they wanted to win but just couldn’t do it. Don’t think they gave up.
They loss the game but that doesn’t mean they were outmatched to the point that they have no chance in game 2 and the rest of the series.
I am by no mean happy with their loss but I am also not losing hope that they can win the series.

seriously???you are proud we "limited" the chances of a team that came 28th in goals scored this past reg season? Sorry,i'm NOT impressed at all,,,as a matter of fact,, i thought they had more 2 and 3 bells chances then we did.

we finished #2 in goals and got shut out. now THAT is impressive
 

BrainyBomber

Registered User
Apr 1, 2018
489
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IF my tender is posting a .971 sv% and the game is lost?

then that's ALL on the 76 million paid to the skaters,,,,full stop
Yes sv% didn't decide the match it was Freddie's blunder.

Since you brought up pay. CBJ's skaters are also paid 76m and the two sides were very rven. However, Korpisalo is paid 4m less than Freddie and yet outplayed Freddie and didn't cost his team the deciding goal.
 
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kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,202
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wn 1 m too much,,AM 1.6 too much,,MM 2.4m too much=5m open cap

5m + 4.45 for ceci(LOLZ) = 1 solid D man, AP as a free agent?=9.45m?
Nylander is in the wheelhouse $300-500. Matthews should be around Tavares at $11. Marner is $1-1.5 million too much.

So $2 to $2.5 million too much.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,490
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Nylander is in the wheelhouse $300-500. Matthews should be around Tavares at $11. Marner is $1-1.5 million too much.

So $2 to $2.5 million too much.
Agreed, then id add the term issues with Marner and AM too
 

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
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Rofl

Over the last 2 seasons, auston ranks 15th in ppg and 19 in points and is 4th in goals.

That is not very impressive for the 3rd highest paid player on the shortest term of anyone in the top 25 highest paid players.

This is a salary cap league and you can't just give money away.

For 11.6 mil, we should've gotten 8 years.

The contract dubas gave matthews has literally never been done before.

You might not care about that but then I question if you are even a leaf fan. Do you not care about winning?

I understand your point. But say AM signed for 8 yrs with the same caphit, would it change the current cap structure?
In a way, the effect of AM-5 yrs deal Vs 8 yrs deal will only take place 5 yrs from now.
Thus, in terms of building a winner for the next 5 yrs, the effect is the same.
Ofcourse, we can say if AM deal is 8 yrs, then others will take less...guess we never know.
 
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kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
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So if the pandemic had not happened, and the salary cap would have continued to go up (even at minimum expectations), would we still have been able to resign Rielly, Hyman, and Mikeyev if doing what you just said? If not, I know it makes way more sense than what Dubas actually did.
He makes no sense. He clearly doesn't understand how the cap works.
 
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Durrr

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
5,592
413
Rofl

Over the last 2 seasons, auston ranks 15th in ppg and 19 in points and is 4th in goals.

That is not very impressive for the 3rd highest paid player on the shortest term of anyone in the top 25 highest paid players.

This is a salary cap league and you can't just give money away.

For 11.6 mil, we should've gotten 8 years.

The contract dubas gave matthews has literally never been done before.

You might not care about that but then I question if you are even a leaf fan. Do you not care about winning?

Who cares about the past two seasons? We're paying him for this year and the years coming up, and he delivered. You can cherry pick stats all you'd like, but here is the reality for this season;

#3rd in goals, 1 behind first. #1/2 scoring true center (Draisatl splits time on McDavids wing, so categorize him as you want). Could have easily won the rocket this year if the season finished.

#9 in points, #3rd/4th highest scoring center depending on how you characterize Draisatl.
 
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