Leafs need more truculence!!!

[Brown Dog]

I'd just like another forward that can really forecheck. We might be too reliant on creating off the rush. Doesn't have to be a face-puncher.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

DSP is on waivers. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him. Rather him on the 4th line than useless Lindholm

 

[ToneDog]

I would never argue that. Those were replacement level players with ECHL level puck skills. But their attitude was team first, and their willingness to dig deep was there. Skill and toughness are not mutually exclusive.

Boggles the mind how many times people bring up Orr, Fraser and McLeren when we are looking for the likes of Roberts, Clark, Thachuk, Anderson, Krieder, Crouse, Ritchie etc etc etc.

 

[Gabriel426]

Boggles the mind how many times people bring up Orr, Fraser and McLeren when we are looking for the likes of Roberts, Clark, Thachuk, Anderson, Krieder, Crouse, Ritchie etc etc etc.

This is what I don't get. Playing heavy and tough does not mean, we need fighters....Marchand is small and he is one tough SOB on the ice. It is a mentality that these kids need to have.

 

[sessiroth]

Boggles the mind how many times people bring up Orr, Fraser and McLeren when we are looking for the likes of Roberts, Clark, Thachuk, Anderson, Krieder, Crouse, Ritchie etc etc etc.

And even with Orr and mclaren, they made our fourth line have a purpose. To many nights our fourth line has been invisible. No impact on the game. I really liked what Ennis brought there but it's yet to be seen if he's gonna be the same guy coming back from injury.

I'd rather have Orr McLaren keeping teams in check playing 5 mins a night then Gauthier, Lindholm playing 8-12 and adding little to nothing.

 

[moon111]

The thing is, none of this 'tough' play is really that tough anymore. We don't have players cracking sticks over players who don't wear helmets. Elbows to the face, etc. Career-ending injuries were always right around the corner. Now we see a little hit and act like we just saw someone murdered. Do the Leafs need to be a little tougher? Well they should at least be able to handle what is currently being dished around without the need for an enforcer. Really what is needed is the ability to change the game plan. The Leafs simply have their system and when the other team doesn't allow it, they fall apart. It's not always grace that wins. If you're at the 40 shot mark and nothing is going in, perhaps it's time to put someone in front of the net. If you can't skate it in, dump and chase. Can you play against the Leafs with your head down? Will they block a shot? Will you get punished and tied up if you're in front of the Leaf's net? That being said, I don't think going to war is the way to go either. In 1993, who was the winner of the Leafs v.s. LA Kings series? Really the answer is, nobody. Don't think either team had enough left to compete against Montreal who had it fairly easy against Quebec, Buffalo, and the Islanders. You need to play tough, but you also have to make it to the end of the war as well. The Leafs don't need a trade, they just need to man up
and put their big boy pants on.

 

[sessiroth]

This is what I don't get. Playing heavy and tough does not mean, we need fighters....Marchand is small and he is one tough SOB on the ice. It is a mentality that these kids need to have.

At the same time Marchand always has tough sobs on his team to back him up when needed. You can have a fighters mind set but when McNabb takes out Johnson on a dirty play, sits there in the box and laughs about it who on this team is gonna keep him in check? You saw last night as well Kadri was getting runned at. Teams know they can do whatever they want because we don't have anyone who would make them think otherwise. Marchand always had Thorton, Chara, McQuaid, backes etc etc. The leafs have Hyman.

 

[MarnerElite]

I'd just like another forward that can really forecheck. We might be too reliant on creating off the rush. Doesn't have to be a face-puncher.

We have guys who can forecheck...Hyman, Marleau, Johnson, Brown(can get Moore as well who is good at it)..Issue is that our big guns aren't consistent in getting into corners and battling and when we allow those 4 above to do it(except Johnson is ok at it), for most part they don't do a good job making plays..So this balance is thrown off by incompetence of the forechecker to make plays and unwillingness by skilled guy to get the puck...It's a mess that is contributed by both really. What would be ideal is for some of our top guys to get some manliness in them so we can have more skilled guys playing with other skilled guys..Issue is that Babcock won't allow Willy to go up the lineup unless he proves he won't do the same thing as Matthews and be allergic to contact(and so far i've been mostly impressed with Willy,i think he is beasting out there which im loving so far).

I know many on here blame Babcock but i'd want him fired too if i saw Willy beasting with work ethic but not playing higher..The thing is, only recently have i been very impressed with Willy's game. Most other years he's had horrible inconsistencies in engaging along the wall(he's always shown his skill so i'm not denying that). Naz for example, i've watched him for so long and aside from his ability to score(when he plays with skilled guys), i don't really like anything else about his game. Can't really skate, falls down a lot, poor stamina, hits someone and then falls down, talks a lot and no one gets scared of him, is considered a good defensive player but allows guys constantly to go by with ease, etc)..I honestly think him and Jake are gone but we'll see. We need to keep Kappy and Johnson and so i think other pieces will be moved to keep younger, better players.

I'm not overly disappointed by anything in this team(aside from the work ethic on some nights ) but there are some issues we still need to resolve for sure. Muzzin to me looks a lot slower than i thought..He might be even slower than Hainsey(at least on some plays he looks) so i'm not in this boat where Muzzin plays with Rielly( not just yet anyways)..He needs to prove himself a lot more before i'd trust him(what's with falling down so often? still getting adjusted to the pace i guess?)..Cheers!

 

[Leafblooded]

Even Marner is no longer willing to throw a hit. That kid was all heart when he was coming up. Now he's afraid of getting hurt and losing a few bucks off that 10m/year contract he's about to get.

I blame fame, money, and the ridiculous way he wears his hats.

The rest of the squad follows suit. Why hurt yourself when no one else is willing to go there?

 

[sessiroth]

Even Marner is no longer willing to throw a hit. That kid was all heart when he was coming up. Now he's afraid of getting hurt and losing a few bucks off that 10m/year contract he's about to get.

I blame fame, money, and the ridiculous way he wears his hats.

The rest of the squad follows suit. Why hurt yourself when no one else is willing to go there?

I know he had his injuries issues in toronto but a guy like soshnikov would be a great player on the fourth line. He's smaller then marner but hits everything that moves and move around the ice really well. I remember him taking a run at big buff once.

 

[Gabriel426]

At the same time Marchand always has tough sobs on his team to back him up when needed. You can have a fighters mind set but when McNabb takes out Johnson on a dirty play, sits there in the box's and laughs about it who on this team is gonna keep him in check? You saw last night as well Kadri was getting runned at. Teams know they can do whatever they want because we don't have anyone who would make them think otherwise. Marchand always had Thorton, Chara, McQuaid, backes etc etc. The leafs have Hyman.

The thing is that the team needs to play tougher by having the mentality that nobody can push them around. Take your McNabb as an example, it doesn't have to be someone going up against McNabb, it could be any other players on Vegas, heck even run MAF to send a message. Even when Martin was here and playing, he didn't really run at anyone and stuff. You see the odd fight and stuff here and there but not like the Leafs was tougher to play against. I would even go as far as saying only in Babs first year-tank year-where the Leafs actually played tough Defense as a team. A team where Hunwick, Marincin, Polak and Dion as Dman while PAP, Spaling, Mathias, Winnik, Boyes, Holland, Leo and Grabner(non-scoring) were taking turn in the top 6.

 

[Leafblooded]

At the same time Marchand always has tough sobs on his team to back him up when needed. You can have a fighters mind set but when McNabb takes out Johnson on a dirty play, sits there in the box and laughs about it who on this team is gonna keep him in check? You saw last night as well Kadri was getting runned at. Teams know they can do whatever they want because we don't have anyone who would make them think otherwise. Marchand always had Thorton, Chara, McQuaid, backes etc etc. The leafs have Hyman.

Thornton is a p***y cat and played 1 season I think with Marchand? Regardless, he can face wash and kick with the best of 'em.
McQuaid and Backes are strong men willing to give and take and play a little dirty to gain an advantage. Backes is like 6'0, not big.
Chara yes, freak of nature but slow, easy to avoid. Also quite tempered cuz in his prime he could kill a man if he went all out.
Marchand is a rat who walks the line and isn't afraid to cross it to get the win. He's taken his fair share of abuse in return but laughs it off and goes back for more.

As much as I hate Boston I do admire their team toughness. Other than their two beasts (prime Chara and maybe that other face punching goof whose retired since) the rest of the team holds up their end of the bargain to play a certain style. Even Krug whose like 5' tall plays tougher than the majority of the guys on our Leafs.

The explanation is simple. Boston leadership and management isn't going to let their young players p***yfoot around the ice. Case in point? Kessel.

 

[robertmac43]

I'd rather have Orr McLaren keeping teams in check playing 5 mins a night then Gauthier, Lindholm playing 8-12 and adding little to nothing.

When AJ was on the fourth line he drove them well.

Also Par and Goat will at least go 0 in a game and just give the other guys more buffer time to catch their breath. Plus they are defensively sound.

5 mins of the old fourth line sounds like a goal coming our way. On top of this today's nhl is so fast that when you commit to a hit you often put yourself far of the play

 

[Not My Tempo]

Hits don’t have to be the end all.
Where are the stats that show how a team plays from the circles on down (forecheck and cycle) and how they defend the cycle from other teams.

Not completely what you are asking, but the Leafs get an overwhelming amount of shots in front of the net, it’s not like they’re some perimeter passive team

And on defense they do a good job of clearing the crease

Winnipeg, a team that everyone loves to say plays a heavy forechecking game oddly takes way more perimeter shots

I think a lot of it is just confirmation bias tbh

 

[ToneDog]

Just caught a bit of Matthew Barnaby on the Big Show. He hinted that Babs is giving Hainsey as many minutes as he has because he is sending a message to Dubas to get another RHD.

 

[FraumBallard]

you guys realize that the coyotes beat us with speed, speed, and more speed, right?

You realize we're soft softer softest.
Right?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Everytime I see comments like this I think back to the multiple times over the last few years Polak has dumped an opposing forward on top of Andy for taking an extra poke at the puck haha. I agree you need to look after your goalie, just need to be brighter than Polak about it

POLAK SMASH!

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

Not completely what you are asking, but the Leafs get an overwhelming amount of shots in front of the net, it’s not like they’re some perimeter passive team

And on defense they do a good job of clearing the crease

Winnipeg, a team that everyone loves to say plays a heavy forechecking game oddly takes way more perimeter shots

I think a lot of it is just confirmation bias tbh

Definitely. Doesn’t help that the talking heads can’t go 2 minutes without talking about toughness and how the leafs don’t have any.

 

[Trapper]

Definitely. Doesn’t help that the talking heads can’t go 2 minutes without talking about toughness and how the leafs don’t have any.

So we’re good enough to win against any team/any style thrown at us?
If we can’t use our speed and have to create chances down low/cycle and win puck battles we are fine?

If we have to handle a heavy forecheck in our zone our D is good for that?

If we have to fight our way through heavy coverage we got this?

 

[Not My Tempo]

I just find it strange tbh. When we beat physical teams like Washington or Vegas, it seems everyone unanimously agrees it’s because we out “skilled” them. No one (rightfully) attributes our success to physicality. Yet when we lose to physical teams, rather than point to our “skill” not showing up we attribute the loss to lack of toughness.

The media narrative following any game can just be broken down into the following:

If we play:

a non-physical team and win - “it’s because they’re more skilled than the other team”.

a non-physical team and lose - “just didn’t skate hard enough”.

a physical team and win - “they dug deep and pulled out a win”

a physical team and lose - “just not tough enough”

It’s weird.

 

[Sittler 27]

Too bad Stone Cold can't play, would love to see him come storming on the ice with 2 cans of beer

 

[Morbo]

I just find it strange tbh. When we beat physical teams like Washington or Vegas, it seems everyone unanimously agrees it’s because we out “skilled” them. No one (rightfully) attributes our success to physicality. Yet when we lose to physical teams, rather than point to our “skill” not showing up we attribute the loss to lack of toughness.

The media narrative following any game can just be broken down into the following:

If we play:

a non-physical team and win - “it’s because they’re more skilled than the other team”.

a non-physical team and lose - “just didn’t skate hard enough”.

a physical team and win - “they dug deep and pulled out a win”

a physical team and lose - “just not tough enough”

It’s weird.

nailed it.

 

[Chris18820]

Even Marner is no longer willing to throw a hit. That kid was all heart when he was coming up. Now he's afraid of getting hurt and losing a few bucks off that 10m/year contract he's about to get.

I blame fame, money, and the ridiculous way he wears his hats.

The rest of the squad follows suit. Why hurt yourself when no one else is willing to go there?

We dont need Marner throwing hits. Let him be a playmaker. We need more grit but not from our 175lb playmaker who is 12th in league scoring

 

[kfox]

Dubas is to blame for not adding any toughness after subtracting the team's top 4 hitters last season: Leo 219 hits, Martin 147, Polak 131, Borgman 121.
Current leaders: Zaitzev with 98 then DERMOTT with 85!

 

[Leaf4Life]

Dubas is to blame for not adding any toughness after subtracting the team's top 4 hitters last season: Leo 219 hits, Martin 147, Polak 131, Borgman 121.
Current leaders: Zaitzev with 98 then DERMOTT with 85!

Right, thank god we had all those guys who helped us win last year in the playoffs... Oh wait...