Proposal: Leafs need a few changes

[Gabriel426]

Goalies are so random how do you even determine who a top 10 goalie is? A top 3 goalie this year could very well be a bottom ten goalie next year.

It seems like the opposing goalie is always a top goalie these days.
Honestly, you are right to certain extend but that’s not an excuse for not actively looking for one and hope what you have will be the next Roy or Hasek or even Crawford.

 

[paulhiggins]

I don't think you're going far enough with your plan. I would wait and see how they do in the playoffs but if it's still the "same old-same old" I would dump Shanahan/Dubas and let the new people hire new coaching staff...at the NHL and AHL level. When the new management comes in they tell the players they're making a few changes and remove the C from Tavares and give it to Matthews. We've got too much $$$ tied up in the forwards and if Tavares is the playoff goat instead of the hero he might waive his NMC, take his signing bonus and move on via a trade. We could get some assets back.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Okay, maybe I misidentified what the problem is. I don't think that I did but let's say that I did so we can develop your argument. In a 7 game series, both Tampa and Washington are beating the Leafs. In parallel universes, perhaps the Leafs can win one series out of ten.

If all of these teams take shifts off, there must be another thing we can pinpoint as the difference between the two teams. What is it that makes Tampa and Washington better? I would love to hear your opinion here.

Also, let me define what I meant by shifts off. Leafs are a great team and can look dominating at times, don't get me wrong. They can also get hemmed into their own zone by the Ottawa Senators. The difference I see between teams like Tampa and Washington is that those teams don't quit when they're being hemmed into their own zone. They'll continue to work and more often then not, they can get themselves out of that bind. The Leafs on the other hand, collapse in the zone and try to play zone D, the puck is cycled around them until they get tired and it sometimes results in goals.

By shifts off, all I mean is that there is more effort to be had. I won't argue that teams like Tampa and Washington can look as though they are being dominated at certain parts of the game. But the difference is they can work out of those tough spots and then the rest of their game speaks for itself.

Perhaps it is an issue of mental fortitude or perhaps it is the coaching system. Either way, change has to be made if the Leafs are to be successful in the playoffs.

Go back and look at the playoff odds from last year. Even something as lopsided as Tampa Columbus is a 65-35 proposition, and that is at the most extreme. So no idea how a Tampa Toronto series would result in a 10% odds in the Leafs winning. It's closer to 50% with tampa the slight favourite.

Also by the way, Washington spends more time in their own zone than Toronto. So again, you're creating a narrative in your head and then coming up with nonsense based on that narrative.

 

[Bloomberg]

Exactly.

You can have all the skill, heart, and grit that you want on a team but if the goaltending isn't solid, none of it matters.

Err... hmm... David Ayres. Goaltending has definitely been the biggest problem the last couple of games, but we've lost 5 in a row. Our power play is a problem, production from our bottom six is a problem, but hopefully that'll be okay come playoff time and we get Nash, Hyman into the lineup. Our shutdown pairing of Muzzin-Holl has played so poor lately, that they were split up. Oh and also, this is our all-in season, cause we traded away ALOT of assets at the trade deadline that could've been used for future all-in seasons.

The good news is this is a 58 game season and not 82. Imagine the panic if we still had 36 games left in the season...

 

[Twine Tickler]

In this recent 5 game slide the team has played well enough to win in at least 2 of the 5 games. Likely 3. They have not received the goaltending for sure. which is absolutely concerning. But at the end of the day, the tending cannot get much worse than it is now. I expect some positive regression in that category. Also the most overlooked aspect in all of this is that the team likely does not give a flying f*** about a back to back in Vancouver. The weather has been outstanding here in Van over the last couple days, and I know they are technically only supposed to be in the hotel, but I'd imagine they were enjoying themselves by the pool all weekend. Its been over 20+ degrees every day for a week here. Hard to think they didn't enjoy that even a little bit. These are relatively meaningless games for them. Extremely frustrating to watch as a fan. But this team is still the best in Canada easily. The numbers are very clear in that regard. If we get average goaltending we will be fine. All 3 of our goaltenders are more than capable of providing that, they are just in a rough stretch. To me, the most concerning aspect is our PP. The 2 goals that we have scored in B2B games were terrible PP goals. The Matthews goal was off of a SH chance against and complete defensive breakdown by the Canucks. and the JT goal was after 1.5 minutes of non threatening puck movement, and was a shot that 9 times out of 10 misses the net short side and gets rimmed around the wall out of the zone. We focus so much on the goaltending, which is fair. But these guys are good goalies. They will figure it out. They may not steal wins, but they wont lose them in this capacity forever. This PP has been dogshit for months now. It needs to be sorted, because we are consistently losing the special teams battle. Hard to win a cup without taking advantage of the PP

 

[stickty111]

Team in a struggle? Suggestion: trade Nylander
Rinse and repeat.
Willy's been one of our best players during this stretch. The issues are goaltending and our players getting over that mental hurdle.
No team survives with bad goaltending. None.

 

[EK392000]

Go back and look at the playoff odds from last year. Even something as lopsided as Tampa Columbus is a 65-35 proposition, and that is at the most extreme. So no idea how a Tampa Toronto series would result in a 10% odds in the Leafs winning. It's closer to 50% with tampa the slight favourite.

Also by the way, Washington spends more time in their own zone than Toronto. So again, you're creating a narrative in your head and then coming up with nonsense based on that narrative.

Those odds are calculated by referring to regular season success, which doesn't mean anything in the playoffs. Columbus kept Tampa to the outside, laid the body and outworked them for four games in a row. So, odds in the playoffs don't mean jack. Columbus also beat the Leafs in the play-in tournament last year with far less talent than they had when they beat Tampa. What does that tell you about odds? What does that tell you about the Leafs? What does that tell you about Columbus?

I'm asking you to look at this Leafs team now and tell me if you think they're going to win against Tampa in a 7 game series. It's a matter of opinion but I don't think the Leafs win that series. Tampa got embarrassed and went and bettered their team. They learned firsthand the value of hard work and went into the next postseason with a chip on their shoulder. They wouldn't allow themselves to get outworked again because they know that if that happens, they can lose games.

The Leafs haven't learned this lesson despite having enough chances. They lose to Columbus in the play-in and that was enough for them to acquire players that bring more grit to the team and make them harder to play against. They blow a lead against the Sens, when teams like Edmonton blow the Sens out of the water every time. They get embarrassed by the Canucks on multiple occasions.

 

[ToneDog]

Still no jam in this team. They talk a good game how tight the room is. I wish there game was as tight their talk. Who’s leading.... it’s definitely not Thornton,Simmonds or Engvall. Spezza does and he’s the only good signing of the three.

Talk is cheap. We are going to find out what these guys are made up once they ice a full lineup in the playoffs. I like what Dubas did at the TDL, but if Dubas' boys make another quick exit, it might be time to hand the reigns over to another trio.

 

[nsleaf]

Stirred, not shaken. Hold the olive.

 

[kevsh]

- Need more offense from the bottom 6 forward group
- Less line juggling by Keefe (outside of injuries, obviously). Put them together and let them figure it out
- Enough of the east-west stretch passes in their own & neutral zones, less no-look passes everywhere
- Goaltending will have to be addressed in the off-season but realistically, top-tier tenders are extremely hard to get a hold of. Unless they luck out and find a hidden gem or make a monster deal to bring in an elite goalie

So to me it's less about a roster shakeup than fixing areas of weakness. And to address those issues (bottom 6 help and/or goaltending upgrade), Dubas will have to free up some cap space along with moving players/prospects.

 

[stickty111]

Those odds are calculated by referring to regular season success, which doesn't mean anything in the playoffs. Columbus kept Tampa to the outside, laid the body and outworked them for four games in a row. So, odds in the playoffs don't mean jack. Columbus also beat the Leafs in the play-in tournament last year with far less talent than they had when they beat Tampa. What does that tell you about odds? What does that tell you about the Leafs? What does that tell you about Columbus?

I'm asking you to look at this Leafs team now and tell me if you think they're going to win against Tampa in a 7 game series. It's a matter of opinion but I don't think the Leafs win that series. Tampa got embarrassed and went and bettered their team. They learned firsthand the value of hard work and went into the next postseason with a chip on their shoulder. They wouldn't allow themselves to get outworked again because they know that if that happens, they can lose games.

The Leafs haven't learned this lesson despite having enough chances. They lose to Columbus in the play-in and that was enough for them to acquire players that bring more grit to the team and make them harder to play against. They blow a lead against the Sens, when teams like Edmonton blow the Sens out of the water every time. They get embarrassed by the Canucks on multiple occasions.

Leafs also embarrassed the Oilers in that 3 game series earlier. Why would we mention that though right?
It's easy to cherry pick to be negative.

 

[Leaftors]

they need to take care of the puck.

 

[EK392000]

Leafs also embarrassed the Oilers in that 3 game series earlier. Why would we mention that though right?
It's easy to cherry pick to be negative.

I know they did and my confidence and faith in the Leafs was at its peak following that three game stretch. Did they continue playing like that though? No. I wouldn't have made this thread if they did. When we're talking about mental fortitude, we're talking about effort but also consistency. I don't expect them to win every game. However, I would sleep a lot better at night if I could reflect on a game and think "you know what? They tried and we probably would have won if the puck bounced our way or got a few saves". Even if the Leafs lost a game in that three game series, with that level of play, I would be more than okay with it. I am not okay with blowing multi-goal leads to the Sens though.

 

[Trapper]

Team has been changed 47 times.
Nope.
Need to get to playoffs and the 40+ million core JT - Matthews - Nylander- Marner - Rielly need to be dominant.

Remember everyone saying oh but Pittsburgh won with a worse defense than us. Y’all remember that?

Chicago won the first Cup with Anti Neimi in net.

Nope and nope.
Is the core good enough or not. Do you want another 10 mil star and blame Thornton and the goalie for depth.

Nope. It’s on the bus drivers come playoffs.

 

[Racer88]

We don't need a shakeup, we just need consistent above average goaltending. Plain and simple.

Unfortunately to achieve that they will need new personal in net and that ship has sailed for this year.

 

[Racer88]

Talk is cheap. We are going to find out what these guys are made up once they ice a full lineup in the playoffs. I like what Dubas did at the TDL, but if Dubas' boys make another quick exit, it might be time to hand the reigns over to another trio.

By Trio do you mean Shanny, Dubas and Keefe?

 

[seanlinden]

I'm not so sure it's about a "shakeup" as it is learning to have an adaptable game.

The Leafs are a solid defensive team for the most part. The 3rd and 5th goals were nothing chances that I believe I could have saved... wearing skater gear. Even the 2nd goal wasn't great.

They can go head to head with the Oilers & shut them down, relying on counter-attack chances to put the puck in the net....however, when they go up against a tight checking, conservative style team like Vancouver or Winnipeg, things tend to dry up because they clog up the neutral zone, and we're unwilling to dump & chase. That's why we lost to Columbus despite grossly outmatching them from a skill standpoint.

That's why Hyman has been so important to this team... he's basically the only guy that does it well; and when you can cycle the puck well in the offensive zone, with the weapons we have, it's going to lead to success.

Foligno will likely help this... but it's also not like he's the biggest guy or best skater. Galchenyuk has the effort level and a bit of size, but that's never really been his game; and he's still adapting to it. Matthews has the size to do it, but he's also the shooting centre, he can't be your primary forechecker. Tavares has the skill to do it, but again, more suited to being the secondary forechecker. Marner & Nylander are the guys who you want the puck on their stick in open ice.

You go down the lineup... Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Engvall... counterattack players. Jumbo & Simmonds are just too slow / constantly chasing the play.

 

[Spirit of 67]

we’ll have prime Freddy back. Revisit this thread if prime Freddy reappears and the Leafs still lose in the playoffs.

Why would this year be different?

He's proven he can't get the job done.

Time to see what Campbell can do.

 

[Budz22]

Our fan base in a nutshell:
Goaltending sucks
PP sucks
Reilley sucks
Injuries hurting us
Refs screwing us
Thornton and Simmonds useless.

Solution: I think Nylander has to go.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Goalies are so random how do you even determine who a top 10 goalie is? A top 3 goalie this year could very well be a bottom ten goalie next year.

Additionally, there really is not a huge differance between a 5million dollar goalie and a 10million dollar goalie. Most of the time in fact a 10 Million dollar goalie tends to be worse than half of the league. No sense trading away a known commodity in our young guns for enigmatic goaltenders. Because at the end of the day, all goalies are enigmatic. Carter Hart was a stud last year and the darling of the NHL, and can't make a save this year. Still a phenomenal goalie, off year. Same can be said for all of our goalies really, just to a lesser degree. But they are all capable tendies. It really would not surprise me to see Andersen go to another team and be a top 5 tendy. Just a f***ed position.

 

[ShaneFalco]

If they go out again early this year, yes I'm on board for change (to the core). But right now with our goaltending and absolutely pitiful PP, it may be more of a deployment issue (with pp mainly)

 

[Bloomberg]

Our fan base in a nutshell:
Goaltending sucks
PP sucks
Reilley sucks
Injuries hurting us
Refs screwing us
Thornton and Simmonds useless.

Solution: I think Nylander has to go.

The idea is a trading one of the big 4 would give us assets and cap space to address other problems. Hypothetically, we traded Nylander @ 6.9M to Colorado for Byram, Barron and Nichushkin and then use the cap space to sign a goalie and Saad, then

Goaltending sucks - Got additional cap space to sign a goalie
PP sucks - Byram will takeover PP
Reilley sucks - Byram or Sandin could step in for Rielly, so less responsibilities if he doesn't play well
Injuries hurting us - More depth, so more likely to have players step in and be effective.
Refs screwing us -
Thornton and Simmonds useless. - More cap space to sign better players

 

[EK392000]

The idea is a trading one of the big 4 would give us assets and cap space to address other problems. Hypothetically, we traded Nylander @ 6.9M to Colorado for Byram, Barron and Nichushkin and then use the cap space to sign a goalie and Saad, then

Goaltending sucks - Got additional cap space to sign a goalie
PP sucks - Byram will takeover PP
Reilley sucks - Byram or Sandin could step in for Rielly, so less responsibilities if he doesn't play well
Injuries hurting us - More depth, so more likely to have players step in and be effective.
Refs screwing us -
Thornton and Simmonds useless. - More cap space to sign better players

I agree with the sentiment, not the trade proposal.

People seem to think Nylander is always included in trade proposals because he is the scapegoat and deserves to go. The people that include Nylander for this reason are overreacting and emotional. On the other hand, there are people that realize Nylander is young, good top-6 winger that has value and is on a movable contract. If you want quality pieces, you have to give quality pieces.

 

[wingman75]

Yes - if they lose in either of the first two round of the playoffs
No - if advance to the Cup semi finals or further

I answered YES in the poll, because based on the 2nd half of the season I don't see this team being able to beat anyone in a seven game series. Writing that makes me sad.

 

[Bloomberg]

Yes - if they lose in either of the first two round of the playoffs
No - if advance to the Cup semi finals or further

I answered YES in the poll, because based on the 2nd half of the season I don't see this team being able to beat anyone in a seven game series. Writing that makes me sad.

We haven't seen this team with Foligno, Nash and Hutton yet, so there's still hope. But it will be quite sad to give up as much assets as we have and not even make it out of the first round. The second round will likely be against the Jets, so as long as we don't get embarrassed in that series, it's still okay?