Post-Game Talk: LEAFS LOSE IN SHOOTOUT 3-2 | SAT, 30-SEP @ 7:00 PM | SPORTSNET | RICOH COLISEUM

[dimi78]

A lot of flaws with what you have said. How did JVR do after we traded Kessel? What's that? he lead our team in scoring and was on pace for 60 pts and 30 goals even without Kessel? Must just be lucky that he is the most consistent player we have had for years. C'mon you're trying too hard.

Your other point is equally weak. ln your world management is saying "You know we could probably get assets for JVR but let's hold on to him to supress our much better player Leivo. We could not possibly make use of his Cap space and the assets he could bring it, it is better for us to field a worse team"

Leivo has looked great at times but he may not even make it as a top 6 guy, and you want to replace a legit #1 LW with him. That is just not how the real world works, especially with playoff teams.

On pace has as much leverage as Leivo who's averaging close to a point a game in the NHL. JVR is consistently inconsistent. JVR is no legit #1 winger not even on these Leafs. He gets by on his talent but doesn't play winning team hockey. Philly traded him because of this and the Leafs if they don't trade him will let him walk for nothing for the same reason. Teams aren't drooling to trade for JVR. His value is a lot lower than you realize...

In a cap world JVR is the type of player you don't commit term to at high cap. Don't be fooled by the numbers he's the most replaceable Maple Leaf as we speak.

 

[BlueBaron]

Communication and professionalism is key to what happens. They protected him in the expansion draft they would not have done that if they didn't see him part of the team moving forward and you have to believe the organization is in communication with him for what's happening and how they view him. His agent hasn't said anything so you have to think at this point he's on board with what management is selling to him. Again in a guaranteed contract league it's tough to make room for deserving youth and really it depends on Leivo himself how much he wants to be a Leaf at this point. He could behind closed doors ask to be traded to further his career. Nothing wrong with that and if he does it right stays a pro about his situation the organization will oblige. However there's an incredible opportunity that will open up for him in Leaf Land if he stays patient. The organization knows he could be a part of this team like I said they wouldn't have protected him if that wasn't the case. JVR wont be back and for one more year being the extra forward might be beneficial to him. Playing with Marner is something he wont find elsewhere.

Playing with Marner means nothing, JVR did just fine without Marner and Kessel. Why is everyone deliberately ignoring that and making this lame argument?

You are right that they retained him and that indicates seeing him in their plans, but that was also before Marleau. Things change fast in the NHL. It would not surprise me if we were trying to trade JVR+Carrick/Marincin to upgrade a D spot but other than that who are they going to trade at forward? Maybe Brown if they think Kappy is better but Brown is one of those born and raised a Leaf fan players we are trying to collect. Don't see Browny going anywhere.

We have the assets to do something big but we just don't know what Lou has working on the burner.

 

[zeke]

Remember when you used to actually make arguments based on stats? Rather than baseless emotional attachment? I will ask you again zeke. WHERE IS THE FINISH? You can't answer because you know it doesn't exist. You conspire against our star players and reach on the fringe nhl'ers, I don't understand what your game plan is.

If you want to base decisions based on point totals from 4 preseason games, that's up to you.

 

[LeafChief]

Go Leafs Go!

 

[LeafChief]

Remember when you used to actually make arguments based on stats? Rather than baseless emotional attachment? I will ask you again zeke. WHERE IS THE FINISH? You can't answer because you know it doesn't exist. You conspire against our star players and reach on the fringe nhl'ers, I don't understand what your game plan is.

Mikeyg you wildin' today.

 

[BlueBaron]

On pace has as much leverage as Leivo who's averaging close to a point a game in the NHL. JVR is consistently inconstant. JVR is no legit #1 winger not even on these Leafs. He gets by on his talent but doesn't play winning team hockey. Teams aren't drooling to trade for JVR. His value is a lot lower than you realize...

In a cap world JVR is the type of player you don't commit term to at high cap. Don't be fooled by the numbers he's the most replaceable Maple Leaf as we speak.

On pace means something when you do it every year, again you are trying too hard. This is not a rookie we are talking about like Leivo.

You do not know what other teams think of JVR and you are kidding yourself if you think there are no GMs out there that think he would improve their team. We can even afford to retain on him so your arguments are just spiralling into lala land.

Look at the top 15 scoring LW for the last 5 years and then tell me he is not a #1 LW.

Dude, you have no clue what you are talking about. Just pack this one in, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Mikeyg]

If you want to base decisions based on point totals from 4 preseason games, that's up to you.

Right because the preseason totally isn't a time where prospects get compared against each other for the purpose of competing for roster spots. This demonstrates a lot of ignorance on your part. First of all, babcock values the "What have you done for me lately" and is on the record as saying that leivo had to EARN a spot in camp and take a job. He didn't do that. Not only has he not done it over this preseason, he hasn't done it ever in his nhl career. He hasn't taken a job because he has NEVER SHOWN finish at the NHL level. What is difficult to understand about that? Ask babs about grundstrom he says things like "he looks like a player to me, hes faster than everyone and shoots it in the net every day", hey coach what about leivo "yeah... he needs to take somebody's spot and then proceeds to shrug". He hasn't shown the finish and you know it zeke. Don't you dare say that he hasn't had the opportunity to show finish either... The kid simply cannot earn his chances let alone capitalize on the ones he gets.

 

[Mikeyg]

Magically?

As if to imply that he has EARNED the right to play in the top 6? Are you going nuts now too?

 

[dimi78]

On pace means something when you do it every year, again you are trying too hard. This is not a rookie we are talking about like Leivo.

You do not know what other teams think of JVR and you are kidding yourself if you think there are no GMs out there that think he would improve their team. We can even afford to retain on him so your arguments are just spiralling into lala land.

Look at the top 15 scoring LW for the last 5 years and then tell me he is not a #1 LW.

Dude, you have no clue what you are talking about. Just pack this one in, you're embarrassing yourself.

When JVR walks for nothing at season end you'll get it.

 

[Eb]

The only stat you cited there that is worth anything in this small sample is that he was 2nd in shots. which is a very good thing.

This is too good. OP trying to negate Leivo's shot totals ha.

 

[BlueBaron]

When JVR walks for nothing at season end you'll get it.

[sigh] If we have a deep playoff run I will get that management gave the kids every chance to succeed and make a deep run instead of making our team worse to maximize assets which we are not exactly short on.


The problem with using psychic predictions as arguments is that they make you look foolish. They are just empty meaningless statements that seem desperate.

We may trade JVR for a D, we may extend him, we could even win the Cup and let him walk. We are a top 8 favorite to win the cup you know. If we win the cup or make it to the finals will anyone but you be complaining we kept JVR? Probably not many.

You are persistent, I will give you that, but clearly too entrenched in your position to have an objective discussion about this.