Post-Game Talk: LEAFS LOSE IN SHOOTOUT 3-2 | SAT, 30-SEP @ 7:00 PM | SPORTSNET | RICOH COLISEUM

[jrgtml67]

They may well keep him--but Leivo can simply walk into Lou's office and say "ive paid my due, and I want to play," requesting a trade. Would you wait again? We have so much talent--especially on the wing,look at camp there were 2,3 guys that 2 years ago make the team no problem at all.

If I was a player, and was patient, and waited, and waited...I would be asking to move. I feel bad for him in that sense. He deserves to play, but currently no room. He has waited long enough. At some point you assess you organization, your depth, and move forward, and I think it is time to do that with Josh. If he stays great, good sub in injury case (as you have said). If he goes we have cough, cough Kapanen, Grundstrom, Johnsson....those guys are no good though? My opinion is they are as good or better in some ways. Leivo's downfall is that half step- or full step in speed. The game is very fast, so its hard for him to use his hands and shot, when he cant get free and create (barring a long up pass). We have Kapanen, all the speed to burn, his hands a good but need to catch up a bit. Grundy is a beast and I guarantee Komarov 2.o with more offense.

Again no issue with leivo staying and being here in case. But I think he wants to move on if he cant play.

 

[BlueBaron]

Management needs to walk the walk after all they've said about making room for guys that earn it. Make a statement, ship JVR out and put Leivo in. I wouldn't even hate a slightly below market return, I think the benefits from the optics of practicing what they preach would more than make up for it.

So you cannot conceive that JVR earned a spot and is a better player? I know some people think his D is not good enough and others think your whole team needs to be strong two way players (which is not true of any team) but if you look at production among left wingers over the past few years guess what? JVR is one of the most productive LW in the league. He is also very consistent. If Leivo was better than JVR, JVR would be gone by now. Think about it.

 

[firstemperor]

Quick thoughts about the game:

Carrick was dominant against a very low level of competition but still great none the less. He's locked the bottom pairing RHD spot at this point.

Dermott was solid but in the last few game, he makes a brutal read- in this case, a brutal giveaway that led to a clean break. Leafs will stick him in the AHL for developmental reasons and continue the slow, over-grooming process

McBackup- best game of the pre-season so far. I thought he played mediocre against the Habs because he couldn't contain simple saves, tonight...he was on point all game long.

Fehr- has no offense to his game at all...despite scoring a dirty goal off his skate tonight.

-Leivo was the 1st star of the game all night for me. And apparently for the Sportsnet/Broadcast crew as well. He was playing against mostly plugs (and with mostly fringe NHL players/AHL'ers on our end as well) but he dominated, like he should. I actually thought his skating looked good for most of the game (especially when he kicks it into high gear....it's not a net negative). He is a beast on the boards, in puck battles, quick to provide solid puck support, and good in tight spaces. Very competitive player when engaged...something that this team desperately needs (see Oshie in playoffs last year).

Rychel- I don't think he's shown he's a NHL talent....I see him hitting waivers.

Nielsen- He looked incredibly slow all game. And he doesn't have the positioning to make up for it....like Hal Gill (nor the gap control/willingness to disrupt shooting/passing lanes with his length and stick)

It's preseason but as I said earlier, I wish Babcock would take the game a little more seriously and not play plugs like Ben Smith, Polak on the PP.

Takeaways:

-I'd like to see Leivo on the big club and one of JVR/Bozak moved. Maybe their value isn't at its peak (TDL) but Leivo is ready now, and was probably last year as well. Before anyone asks, no, I don't think Leivo will replace 30/30 but I'm expecting far better possession, 2-way play, and competitiveness that will make up the difference.

-Carrick is going to make the team.

-Honestly, I have no idea who is going to win the #4C role. If it was who is the best player and who I think has the most potential for growth- I'd say Aaltonen by a fair amount. But I don't think that will be the case...it's going to be Fehr or Moore.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Yeah I'll be the first to admit, I thought Carrick was having a bad camp after the first few preseason games, but he's been fire his last few. Definitely has done enough to retain his spot on the bottom pairing, even if I don't think he fits in long term with us.

 

[RadekBong]

So you cannot conceive that JVR earned a spot and is a better player? I know some people think his D is not good enough and others think your whole team needs to be strong two way players (which is not true of any team) but if you look at production among left wingers over the past few years guess what? JVR is one of the most productive LW in the league. He is also very consistent. If Leivo was better than JVR, JVR would be gone by now. Think about it.

I don't disagree, however that's not the line management has drawn. I agree he's a top point producer, and I agree he brings value to the team. However what he hasn't done is "buy in", and since day one this management team has preached a team mentality where everyone buys in, not a 3 lines buy in and shelter the last mentality. Therefore, as I said if they're gonna talk that talk then moving JVR seems like the natural step to "walking the walk".

 

[jrgtml67]

well said--not to mention JVR is a usual 25 goal scorer last year had a career year but ya I guess Leivo is better--not. It is such a joke here sometimes. Hyman is not a goal scorer duh--he is a puck retrieval guy, forechecker, really good on the PK and works hard every game never takes a game off. Martin is a police-man, sort of...look at our 4th lines prior to last year he hits, he pushes the envelope, and we dont have a grit guy besides him. Kadri and Komarov of pests big difference. Its about balance guys.

Look at the NYR team years ago they had Drury, Gomez, Theoren Fleury so on and so forth and they finished dead last. You can have all the skill you want but if you dont have the right guys in the right place it wont work. Buffalo--look at them no way they shouldve been bottom 5-6 last year but they were. Lots of factors, coaching, chemistry, and so forth.

I guess our coach, and management must be dumb. Two year into "pain," we make the playoffs almost beating the Caps. This year we have added Marleau iron man, fewest goals was 20, but I can see probably 30 if that line finds chemistry. Auston and Nylander look untouchable...and I have no doubt Marner gets going. The our scouts get us Zaits, Rosen, Borgman, Aaltonenn--but oh forgive me or management is clueless.

Give it a rest with the Hyman, and Martin talk seriously. Hey guess what if they dont do what they should be Babcock will fix it. Thing is they are doing what they should be. So stop.

 

[Wendelstache]

Was Ricoh tonight and this is my overall impression of some key player.

Forwards
Kappanen best player on the ice .. his PK was fun to watch.
Leivo had some chances, does not look very fluid, seems to be fighting the puck every time he has it around him.
Grunstrom and Alltonen had down games

DMan
Lilj - Looked steady and was under control, had flashes with his puck movements skills but didn't stand out as much as I hoped.
Polak - had decent movement for first game back .. was steady
Dermott - had a down game, did not look good until the tying goal.
Delarovere - meh
Carrick - steady game ... good bottom paring type of game.
Nielsen - did not look anywhere close to being an NHLer

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[DarkKnight]

Really seems like Nielsen's stock has fallen considerably. Last year, always mentioned in same breath as Dermott, now it's not really close. His mobility is something not easily resolved. Nice to see Carrick rounding into shape, looks like we will need him, initially at least.

 

[BertCorbeau]

well said--not to mention JVR is a usual 25 goal scorer last year had a career year but ya I guess Leivo is better--not. It is such a joke here sometimes. Hyman is not a goal scorer duh--he is a puck retrieval guy, forechecker, really good on the PK and works hard every game never takes a game off. Martin is a police-man, sort of...look at our 4th lines prior to last year he hits, he pushes the envelope, and we dont have a grit guy besides him. Kadri and Komarov of pests big difference. Its about balance guys.

Look at the NYR team years ago they had Drury, Gomez, Theoren Fleury so on and so forth and they finished dead last. You can have all the skill you want but if you dont have the right guys in the right place it wont work. Buffalo--look at them no way they shouldve been bottom 5-6 last year but they were. Lots of factors, coaching, chemistry, and so forth.

I guess our coach, and management must be dumb. Two year into "pain," we make the playoffs almost beating the Caps. This year we have added Marleau iron man, fewest goals was 20, but I can see probably 30 if that line finds chemistry. Auston and Nylander look untouchable...and I have no doubt Marner gets going. The our scouts get us Zaits, Rosen, Borgman, Aaltonenn--but oh forgive me or management is clueless.

Give it a rest with the Hyman, and Martin talk seriously. Hey guess what if they dont do what they should be Babcock will fix it. Thing is they are doing what they should be. So stop.

I'm advocating moving JVR as well but this isn't true technically in terms of goal scoring. Points - yes - by one but he had a 30G/31A season in 13/14 (in 80 games). In the last five years he has scored 27-30 goals in the full seasons he's played, and paced 28 and 30 goals in the two seasons that weren't full (the lockout and his injury last year)

 

[crump]

I wish Babcock would have mixed the lines up during preseason a little when there are no points on the line. Having two squads is a nice time to try Leivo with Bozak and Marner..give JVR a kick in the pants a little, or show Komarov the 4th line option and have Marleau with Brown, Kadri.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Two things I'm accepting in the Babcock era but I'm not a fan of: Hyman stuck to Matthews' wing and Leivo in the press box. It's inevitable. It won't change

Yup. Not going to concern myself with it anymore
Well until guys walk at the end of the year for nothing, and guys like Leivo are gone

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I had high hopes on Neilsen. Didn't watch too closely tonight, but it seems like he hasn't taken a step forward; Which is disapointing .All reports coming into camp was how he put in a ton of work in the offseason and was eagerly ready to show it.

Sometimes guys like him need a reality check and hoping this is it. I am sure he will be given an assignment by management. I still look forward to how he progresses, effective skating can be taught

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Leivo was the definite stand out in last night's game (geez, has he always been that speedy? I don't remember him that way). The The only caveat is he's a little like my kid is on the ice: lots of flash and pizazz and no finish.

 

[Mess]

I'd seriously think of offering Wings Leivo for their 3rd string goalie (that needs waivers) Jared Coreau to use as out backup goalie this year and for the future.

Leivo was the best player in last nights game for the Leafs but look destined for the pressbox again.

Leafs might put in a waiver claim, but someone else might scoop him up first with a higher priority selection.

 

[Warden of the North]

They may well keep him--but Leivo can simply walk into Lou's office and say "ive paid my due, and I want to play," requesting a trade. Would you wait again? We have so much talent--especially on the wing,look at camp there were 2,3 guys that 2 years ago make the team no problem at all.

If I was a player, and was patient, and waited, and waited...I would be asking to move. I feel bad for him in that sense. He deserves to play, but currently no room. He has waited long enough. At some point you assess you organization, your depth, and move forward, and I think it is time to do that with Josh. If he stays great, good sub in injury case (as you have said). If he goes we have cough, cough Kapanen, Grundstrom, Johnsson....those guys are no good though? My opinion is they are as good or better in some ways. Leivo's downfall is that half step- or full step in speed. The game is very fast, so its hard for him to use his hands and shot, when he cant get free and create (barring a long up pass). We have Kapanen, all the speed to burn, his hands a good but need to catch up a bit. Grundy is a beast and I guarantee Komarov 2.o with more offense.

Again no issue with leivo staying and being here in case. But I think he wants to move on if he cant play.

What do you think Lou's response would be? Josh Leivo is not in any position to be demanding anything from Lou. Hes not simply walking into Lou's office and saying it, thats for sure.

 

[Gallagbi]

What do you think Lou's response would be? Josh Leivo is not in any position to be demanding anything from Lou. Hes not simply walking into Lou's office and saying it, thats for sure.

Probably the same as it was for Holland.

 

[egd27]

Oh poor Peter Holland never got a chance from our mean management,,,,,,and he is where now?
https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/...nd-waivers-michael-mccarron-jakub-jerabek-ahl

Oh poor Frank Corrado never got a chance from our mean management,,,,,,and he is where now?
https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hockey/news/penguins-frank-corrado-hits-waiver-wire/

Now poor Josh Leivo isn't getting a chance from our mean management......how can they be so stubborn?

 

[DarkKnight]

Oh poor Peter Holland never got a chance from our mean management,,,,,,and he is where now?
Oh poor Frank Corrado never got a chance from our mean management,,,,,,and he is where now?
Now poor Josh Leivo isn't getting a chance from our mean management......how can they be so stubborn?

Seriously, comparing Corrado to Leivo? Wow.

 

[egd27]

Seriously, comparing Corrado to Leivo? Wow.

Comparing situations and HF outcry of how badly our coach and management evaluate talent.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We have 3 veteran players who's contracts are up after this season and the question is, who will take those spots in the lineup? It seems logical to assume that Leivo is part of the answer to that question so trading him for some minimal return seems to be out of the question.

He's the 13th forward for now, as soon as there's an injury or a trade, he's in the lineup. I'm not hoping for anyone to get injured (though it's inevitable at some point) but I am hoping for a trade (JVR, cough cough).

 

[Trapper]

So you cannot conceive that JVR earned a spot and is a better player? I know some people think his D is not good enough and others think your whole team needs to be strong two way players (which is not true of any team) but if you look at production among left wingers over the past few years guess what? JVR is one of the most productive LW in the league. He is also very consistent. If Leivo was better than JVR, JVR would be gone by now. Think about it.

The trouble for Leivo is:
1. Say Leivo and Kappy are deemed good enough to make the team. Kappy gets to play this year by virtue of being waiver exempt. Leivo doesn't.

2. In response to JVR being the better player. Obviously yes. His offense is superior. However it's hard to know what Leivo's 82 game season offense is when he's benched for 60 games. It leads me to ask the question. Should an early 20's something player be a 13th/14th forward or is that better for Moore/Fehr? Marincin 7th/8th D or Dermott?

3. I'd rather trade a player a year too early than a year too late. The whole purpose to draft, develop, replenish is to move the Leivos in when NHL ready and move the soon to be UFAs out (if not in the long term plan, too expensive, or they are support players that you have groomed backfill for). You acquire more stock for this players or specific piece to keep the pipeline rolling.

Again what is Leivo on this team other than a guy who has made the NHL (IMO) and is a healthy scratch every night. Should we keep him if the coach doesn't think he's a better option than 20 guys? Once your waiver status runs out, you need a place or a new place. Extra forward isn't the place for Leivo. It is for Fehr.

 

[zeke]

Fehr stinks.

leivo is good.

this isn't rocket science.

 

[egd27]

We have 3 veteran players who's contracts are up after this season and the question is, who will take those spots in the lineup? It seems logical to assume that Leivo is part of the answer to that question so trading him for some minimal return seems to be out of the question.

He's the 13th forward for now, as soon as there's an injury or a trade, he's in the lineup. I'm not hoping for anyone to get injured (though it's inevitable at some point) but I am hoping for a trade (JVR, cough cough).

It really is just that simple.

They thought enough of him to protect him in the Ex Draft, and by all appearances, will be kept with the big club. If he's really as good as so many think, he will get his chance......just not right now apparently.

He won't be the first player that got caught up in the numbers game.

 

[Mess]

Another shootout game another shootout loss.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Lets hope Leafs OT/SO record this year moves to at least 50% winning %.