Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 5-2 To The Rags

[Bellzy]

Jones was Samsonov level bad tonightespecially that 3rd goal, that was pathetic the Rangers player didn't even get a proper shot away.

Everybody gets 1 bad he's sed his 1

Did you watch the same game as everyone else?

 

[ICBM]

Timmins has nothing to do with Leaf problems. Fifth wheel. The reason for the loss was a bad transition game. Rags used speed, and their forecheck was effective. The Leafs got pinned in their own zone. Why? There were lots of hasty and lazy passes, despite the fact that the pressure wasn't that bad. Players started to panic. Coaching and personnel problems. Badly coached and mentally weak team.

 

[Rare Jewel]

People are acting like Timmins is playing like Klingberg... he is ahead of Benoit and Lagesson...

They're different. Lag and Benoit's qualities shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[notbias]

They're different. Lag and Bentoit's qualities shouldn't be overlooked.

What are their qualities and do we have more of those or D with offensive upside? There is a reason that Klingberg was signed and a reason Timmins will likely continue playing.

That's all I am saying... Lagesson and Benoit are not as good and they are redundant

 

[notDatsyuk]

A couple of relatively green fulltime players getting blamed for a loss, a loss that was ultimately the result of 3 very weird pinball goals. None of which were deflected by either of those players, whom btw, together have 127 NHL games to their credit. It is a sad state of affairs that two rookies have to carry the burden of being the difference between winning and losing!

Just as an observation but it seems that it's almost guaranteed that whenever Matthews returns from missing time(whether one game or a dozen) the Leafs will have a slipshod kind of game, almost like they're relieved to have him back and so for some weird reason lose the urgency to win and put it all on him.

John Tavares had 18:36 of ice time had 5 SOG, 4 hits, 1 blk and won a bunch of board battles and grazed a post and a crossbar, what a really horrible performance? Really???

In contrast to the captains performance, Will had 18:13 of ice time, had 1 assist(absolute beauty btw), 3 SOG, no hits, no blocks and no pucks dug out of anywhere.

I'm not sure anyone was being blamed for the loss other than Jones (ridiculous) and Keefe.

You're just looking at the wrong stats.

Tavares had three giveaways and no takeaways, was a -2 on the night (and got walked on the third goal), and only won 42.1% of his draws.

In contrast, Nylander had no giveaways and two takeaways, was a +1 on the night, and won 60% of his draws.

(I don't think either set of stats is more or less relevant, just pointing out that you can usually find some pointing either way. I thought both of them, along with most of the rest of the team, had a decent but not particularly good game.)

 

[Rare Jewel]

What are their qualities and do we have more of those or D with offensive upside? There is a reason that Klingberg was signed and a reason Timmins will likely continue playing.

That's all I am saying... Lagesson and Benoit are not as good and they are redundant

Yes, because blocking shots, breaking cycles, and closing people out around the net are redundant... seriously...

If Klingberg taught us anything, it's that clearly, it's not all about the offensive ability of the D. That may be the sexy mantra to follow, and yes, you need production from them, but they need to be competent in their own end.

Not that Timmins is awful, he's fine. He's got some favorable usage with his OZS and you can quite easily find replacements for that as well.

 

[rumman]

What’s the obsession with Peeke, just curious. He’s a healthy scratch on Columbus

Steady, solid, affordable. Three things the Leafs need on the D……..

 

[notbias]

Yes, because blocking shots, breaking cycles, and closing people out around the net are redundant... seriously...

If Klingberg taught us anything, it's that clearly, it's not all about the offensive ability of the D. That may be the sexy mantra to follow, and yes, you need production from them, but they need to be competent in their own end.

Not that Timmins is awful, he's fine. He's got some favorable usage with his OZS and you can quite easily find replacements for that as well.

They aren't redundant, but I'd rather a D with offensive upside and who drives play instead of one who will be stuck in their own end breaking it up.

We have Gio, Brodie, McCabe, and Liljegren with limited offensive ability. Should we add another and have only Rielly with offensive talent?

 

[rumman]

Benoit is sitting cause Liljegren is 10x better.

Lagesson will likely sit cause Gio is better, and then Gio can replace Benoit's "toughness".



Trade for a #7 D who can't crack Columbus?

Timmins has some of the best real and fake stats on the team and people want him out...

Yep, let's bring in more low-skilled, players who can't make a pass.

Gio’s a vet, so he deserves respect, but both Benoit and Lagesson are better bottom six options, keep Gio in the press box……..

 

[arso40]

Steady, solid, affordable. Three things the Leafs need on the D……..

Right

 

[notbias]

Steady, solid, affordable. Three things the Leafs need on the D……..

Been absolutely terrible though, so actually he is bad, gets scored on a lot, and overpaid.

He's only a name at this point.

Gio’s a vet, so he deserves respect, but both Benoit and Lagesson are better bottom six options, keep Gio in the press box……..

Gio is better than both.

 

[rumman]

He's ass. I don't see what he does better than Benoit.

Why settle for just Benoit when you can have another steady solid D man, affordable too……..

 

[arso40]

Gio’s a vet, so he deserves respect, but both Benoit and Lagesson are better bottom six options, keep Gio in the press box……..

Gio is still top 6 and better than both slow down

 

[DarkKnight]

Sometimes the stats simply get it wrong. It’s plain as day watching Timmins play that he is not good defensively.

I don’t blame him for the loss tonight by any means, and he’s worthwhile depth to keep, but he’s a player who very clearly needs development time and isn’t going to get it here once we are healthy

Exactly. You just watch him and it is noticeable. I mean I've noticed Lagesson has tapered off a bit too. Is it okay to notice these things? We aren't winning anything with that guy in our Top 6. Reminds me of all the Holl fans last year, look at what a disaster he was come crunch time and he's actually better. Timmins is my 8 or 9 D when healthy, on a D core everyone doesn't think is good enough, so what exactly are we pumping here?

Also nobody is clamouring for Benoit when the dust settles, to me he's depth, but we will be adding D men. He's a serviceable stay at home that clears a crease. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Rare Jewel]

They aren't redundant, but I'd rather a D with offensive upside and who drives play instead of one who will be stuck in their own end breaking it up.

We have Gio, Brodie, McCabe, and Liljegren with limited offensive ability. Should we add another and have only Rielly with offensive talent?

You're underrating Timmy's offensive ability because there is more there, in my opinion, but nonetheless.

But driving play isn't always a luxury afforded to you, You will play against good players, particularly in the playoffs.

Also, I would say that having someone on your bottom pair that best works best with a 60/40 OZS split is taking away some of the offensive opportunities from Rielly, for example. So, to answer your question, yes. They need more offense, and preferably in the top 4, rather than bottom.

 

[DarkKnight]

You're underrating Timmy's offensive ability because there is more there, in my opinion, but nonetheless.

But driving play isn't always a luxury afforded to you, you will play against good players, particularly in the playoffs.

Also, I would say that having someone on your bottom pair that best works best with a 60/40 OZS split is taking away some of the offensive opportunities from Rielly, for example. So, to answer your question, yes. They need more offense, and preferably in the top 4, rather than bottom.

One more point, the second PP gets less time in the playoffs, your ride your horses, many teams for the full 2, so whatever he's bringing now becomes even less relevant in the playoffs. Also, the Leafs can easily run 5 forwards, and a Reilly on two if needed, we have talent to spare for a PP.

I don't hate Timmins at all, just what I see and if it changes, I'll admit it. Just like Kampf, guy was the stinkiest of ass to start the year, he's been good since, perfect fourth line center and playoff tested as well.

 

[rumman]

Gio is still top 6 and better than both slow down

I don’t want to disrespect the guy, but every dog has his day, Gio is perfect press-box fodder that can play in a pinch to cap a great career, he’s nothing more at this point……..

 

[GoonieFace]

I don’t want to disrespect the guy, but every dog has his day, Gio is perfect press-box fodder that can play in a pinch to cap a great career, he’s nothing more at this point……..

Gio is perfect for a bottom pairing role where he’s not overused. He’s still better than Benoit/Timmins and Laegersson in that spot.

The question is when he comes back, will that dummy Keefe realize it, or play him too much

 

[Rare Jewel]

One more point, the second PP gets less time in the playoffs, your ride your horses, many teams for the full 2, so whatever he's bringing now becomes even less relevant in the playoffs. Also, the Leafs can easily run 5 forwards, and a Reilly on two if needed, we have talent to spare for a PP.

I don't hate Timmins at all, just what I see and if it changes, I'll admit it. Just like Kampf, guy was the stinkiest of ass to start the year, he's been good since, perfect fourth line center and playoff tested as well.

I don't dislike him either, and he is providing points, to his credit. But the detraction of Lagesson or Benoit as ho-hum because they don't really is the issue.

 

[DarkKnight]

I don't dislike him either, and he is providing points, to his credit. But the detraction of Lagesson or Benoit as ho-hum because they don't really is the issue.

I know, they've both done admirable work while we've been decimated. So I'm not sure why we have to tear them down to pump another guy, but that poster in particularly can't break out of dualities. Two weeks ago it was insane to put a serviceable vet Jones in to spell a dreadful Sam, man what a mistake that was

 

[Jojalu]

He's credited with no giveaways and two takeaways, one of which led to Matty's second goal.

He also has 11 points in his last 6, and 14 in his last 9, which is 127 point pace.

Odd take

 

[ACC1224]

Exactly. You just watch him and it is noticeable. I mean I've noticed Lagesson has tapered off a bit too. Is it okay to notice these things? We aren't winning anything with that guy in our Top 6. Reminds me of all the Holl fans last year, look at what a disaster he was come crunch time and he's actually better. Timmins is my 8 or 9 D when healthy, on a D core everyone doesn't think is good enough, so what exactly are we pumping here?

Also nobody is clamouring for Benoit when the dust settles, to me he's depth, but we will be adding D men. He's a serviceable stay at home that clears a crease. Nothing more, nothing less.

Holl always seemed to have the misfortune of standing beside the net looking bewildered as they were fishing the puck back out after a goal. For all of Timmins faults it seems that they rarely give up a goal when he’s on the ice but they do score a few.

 

[therealkoho]

What’s the obsession with Peeke, just curious. He’s a healthy scratch on Columbus

His name was mentioned by somebody at one time or another

Speaking of BJs, did anyone else see James Tanners' Willie Nylander +++++ trade proposal for Laine(50% retention) + Werensky recently? Brilliant GMing by our Editor in Leaf

 

[therealkoho]

Exactly, when everyone knows it’s Sammy’s fault

No no no no no no NO!

YOU CAN LAY THIS DIRECTLY AT THE FEET

OF JOHN TAVARES (and the mystery of his non existent middle name!)

 

[DarkKnight]

Holl always seemed to have the misfortune of standing beside the net looking bewildered as they were fishing the puck back out after a goal. For all of Timmins faults it seems that they rarely give up a goal when he’s on the ice but they do score a few.

Fair. And he has been better of late. I just don't have confidence in him anymore, see how it goes.