Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 5-2 To The Rags

[therealkoho]

ES we were better offensively. Jones was solid for us.
3 Goals were lucky bounces

Rangers are a better defensive team and slightly more disciplined in the neutral zone.

With that being said...

2 Power plays and one as a game breaker VS Leafs... pfffttt

Go figure. BS league.

If this was Boston or some other Southern USA team, Millers trip dive play wouldve been called and we wouldve had a tying PP as a chance....

Whats new???

Hey Arizona, Bettman, hows that new Arena going ?? Oh right...
Stop trying to beat NFL NBA Nascar, and hillbilly sports down there

Hope you guys lose more and more fans down there to duck hunting and the likes.

Next...

We got a good thing going.

Don't you be furgitten fishin' them thar lunkers now, ya hear.

 

[HogTown06]

As frustrating as last night's game was it's bound to happen once or twice a season.

Feel bad for Jones, he was not bad really, just had bad luck in a couple of crazy bounces.

 

[therealkoho]

JT .92 points per game as an Islander, .98 points per game as a Leaf. Throw away his best leaf year for some reason it’s .96 points. It’s a total myth he is worse here.

It's all about the contract nothing more, there aren't really a whole lot of PPG players in the league, but a majority of them are paid just below 10m. I just can't figure out how it's JTs fault that the Leafs offered a PPG player that kind of money and he said yeah let's get it done and signed, he didn't say "no way Jose, I'm going to need 13.4 because I need to be the highest paid player in the league!"

He just said "yeah for sure, this is a dream come true, of course I'll sign, I've always wanted to be a Leaf!"

Maybe what he should have said is, "I've given this a lot of thought and I figure I should sign for 7.5m for 5yrs, mainly because of the pandemic that's going to occur over the next few years and I want to be truly sensitive to the needs of the fanbase!"

 

[Sypher04]

Timmins has some of the best real and fake stats on the team and people want him out...

Sometimes the stats simply get it wrong. It’s plain as day watching Timmins play that he is not good defensively.

I don’t blame him for the loss tonight by any means, and he’s worthwhile depth to keep, but he’s a player who very clearly needs development time and isn’t going to get it here once we are healthy

 

[therealkoho]

apparently he did.

The bigger concern is the guys that let him skate unimpeded from red line.

What is more concerning is at least twice the Rags manufactured a 3 on 2 in a transition and of the 2 neither was a defenceman.

 

[notbias]

Sometimes the stats simply get it wrong. It’s plain as day watching Timmins play that he is not good defensively.

I don’t blame him for the loss tonight by any means, and he’s worthwhile depth to keep, but he’s a player who very clearly needs development time and isn’t going to get it here once we are healthy

Well, when he is on the ice we outchance and outscore the opposition... how can the stats be getting it wrong that we are outplaying the opposition with him on the ice?

Highest G%, xG%, Corsi, Fenwick, rel xG%.

Goal differential of 8 when he is on the ice (highest).

2nd in PPG.

 

[Sypher04]

Well, when he is on the ice we outchance and outscore the opposition... how can the stats be getting it wrong that we are outplaying the opposition with him on the ice?

It’s quite easy and even common for group stats (as in those on the ice) to misrepresent individual performance. Also, getting beaten, making a bad read or play doesn’t always result in a chance.

And also, even if his numbers are good relative to other D, a large part of that is the fact he’s given as little as possible by the way of any defensive responsibility.

 

[egd27]

It almost seems when they lose to a decent team with actual bad bounces going against them, the boards don't go ballistic. Go figure

 

[Sypher04]

Highest G%, xG%, Corsi, Fenwick, rel xG%.

Goal differential of 8 when he is on the ice (highest).

2nd in PPG.

The only one of those that’s an individual stat is PPG which I doubt anyone sees as the problem. His offense is largely fine and I’d expect it to be better than others as we don’t really have many offensive defensemen in our lineup and he’s heavily sheltered to boot.

 

[notbias]

It’s quite easy and even common for group stats (as in those on the ice) to misrepresent individual performance. Also, getting beaten, making a bad read or play doesn’t always result in a chance.

And also, even if his numbers are good relative to other D, a large part of that is the fact he’s given as little as possible by the way of any defensive responsibility.

So now the argument is... well ya he is helping out the team, but his QoC is too low or he starts too much in the ozone?

Know where he is going to be playing? 3rd pairing and starting in the ozone.

We have a D who can transition the puck well on each line if he is in, otherwise the 3rd pairing won't.

His mistakes are just more obvious, but I am not sure he is making many more than most of our other D.

His offensive upside is big and he seems to make our team better when he is on the ice, not sure why there is so much hate.

The only one of those that’s an individual stat is PPG which isn’t really the problem. His offense is largely fine and I’d expect it to be better than others as we don’t really have many offensive defensemen in our lineup and he’s heavily sheltered to boot.

What individual stats do you want? No stat is individual.

Are the stats I posted proving that he is making people around him better or is he just coincidently getting the best version of the people he is playing with and everyone else is getting a slightly lower level of those players?

 

[Sypher04]

So now the argument is... well ya he is helping out the team, but his QoC is too low or he starts too much in the ozone?

Know where he is going to be playing? 3rd pairing and starting in the ozone.

We have a D who can transition the puck well on each line if he is in, otherwise the 3rd pairing won't.

His mistakes are just more obvious, but I am not sure he is making many more than most of our other D.

His offensive upside is big and he seems to make our team better when he is on the ice, not sure why there is so much hate.



What individual stats do you want? No stat is individual.

We’re having a discussion about his defensive play so yes, everything I brought up is highly relevant to that.

Don’t hate him actually, at all. But I think his upside is overstated and right now he is, 7th at best on our defensive depth chart, and I’d probably put him 8th. That’s pre us acquiring upgrades which will happen. Depth is good to have but I don’t see how he plays/develops once we are healthy and I’m not convinced he makes significant improvement from what he is today even if we do find him development room.

Third pairing worked perfectly fine without him.

 

[notbias]

We’re having a discussion about his defensive play so yes, everything I brought up is highly relevant to that.

Don’t hate him actually, at all. But I think his upside is overstated and right now he is, 7th at best on our defensive depth chart, and I’d probably put him 8th. That’s pre us acquiring upgrades which will happen. Depth is good to have but I don’t see how he plays/develops once we are healthy.

Well, the stats and coaching staff likely think he is at worst the #6, and he will likely play there, rightfully.

If we are discussing defensively, sure he is Rielly level.

It's like bringing up Benoit when we are discussing offensive D.

I am discussing the D overall, and he is in no way a #7/8 when everyone is healthy...

 

[Sypher04]

Well, the stats and coaching staff likely think he is at worst the #6, and he will likely play there, rightfully.

If we are discussing defensively, sure he is Rielly level.

It's like bringing up Benoit when we are discussing offensive D.

I am discussing the D overall, and he is in no way a #7/8 when everyone is healthy...

What do you mean at worst #6? He’s at best #6. He’s not ahead of any of Rielly, Brodie, McCabe, Gio or Liljegren. He’s in the same class as Benoit and Lagesson and arguably not the best of that bunch either. Then, consider that we probably add at least one D as the season progresses.

Fine, he’s 6-8 when everyone is healthy. Pre acquisition. Then he’s not playing. So we come full circle back to my issue. I think IF he figures it out defensively and become a regular, reliable NHL D it won’t be here most likely.

 

[notbias]

What do you mean at worst #6? He’s at best #6. He’s not ahead of any of Rielly, Brodie, McCabe, Gio or Liljegren. He’s in the same class as Benoit and Lagesson and arguably not the best of that bunch either. Then, consider that we probably add at least one D as the season progresses.

Fine, he’s 6-8 when everyone is healthy. Pre acquisition. Then he’s not playing. So we come full circle back to my issue. I think IF he figures it out defensively and become a regular, reliable NHL D it won’t be here most likely.

I think his defensive issues are overblown, and he must be providing INSANE value offensively if his defensive issues are how people are describing, because everything shows that he is doing great overall.

I mean he is the clear #6 and you can argue if he can move higher.

 

[ACC1224]

How was Timmins at fault for last nights loss?

 

[Sypher04]

How was Timmins at fault for last nights loss?

I certainly didn’t say he was. In fact, I specifically stated he wasn’t. Not sure about other people.

 

[ACC1224]

I certainly didn’t say he was. In fact, I specifically stated he wasn’t. Not sure about other people.

Ok? I never said you did but many others have.

 

[Sypher04]

Ok? I never said you did but many others have.

I know you didn’t name me - sorry I could have been clearer on that.

I’m just speaking for myself as I have been one of the people speaking more negatively about him and people just passing by may associate me with that which I don’t believe.

 

[GoonieFace]

I get an ulcer watching Timmons play hockey.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

If you close your eyes while watching the game Timmins could be a no. 6. But if you watched the game last night with eyes wide open, you'll see a defenceman who is clueless on defensive positioning, takes the wrong reads on rushes, is always on the wrong side of the puck on board battles, easily is outmuscled, and gave away the puck several times, even if those giveaways didn't lead to chances on goal. He's a great passer though. It's slanderous to even compare him to Gardiner. Timmins will get better at defence, but can a SC contender with questions on defence afford to have him on the ice given his defensive deficiencies?

 

[ACC1224]

If you close your eyes while watching the game Timmins could be a no. 6. But if you watched the game last night with eyes wide open, you'll see a defenceman who is clueless on defensive positioning, takes the wrong reads on rushes, is always on the wrong side of the puck on board battles, easily is outmuscled, and gave away the puck several times, even if those giveaways didn't lead to chances on goal. He's a great passer though. It's slanderous to even compare him to Gardiner. Timmins will get better at defence, but can a SC contender with questions on defence afford to have him on the ice given his defensive deficiencies?

Yet the Team gives up 5, he's one of the only plus players and has zero giveaways....weird.

Event Summary

www.nhl.com

 

[TIGERCOOL]

It isn't that Benoit is a great NHL defenceman, it's that Timmins isn't an NHL defenceman. And here's the kicker, in the playoffs nobody cares about PP2 guy, they ride the top unit anyways, it's irrelevant.

I was no huge Gardiner fan... But I see parallels in how Timmins value is misperceived (pre-injury). He still shows really well in advanced metrics and his impact is overall positive. My hope is that the Gardiner-esque gaffs that come along with it are just growing pains and not an indicator of poor processing. He should at least be given the chance to prove that's the case as talented player with a little over a full season of actual NHL games played in the last 3 years. Lots of hockey to play before the trade deadline to know what we have in him.

 

[notbias]

People are acting like Timmins is playing like Klingberg... he is ahead of Benoit and Lagesson...

 

[DarkKnight]

I was no huge Gardiner fan... But I see parallels in how Timmins value is misperceived (pre-injury). He still shows really well in advanced metrics and his impact is overall positive. My hope is that the Gardiner-esque gaffs that come along with it are just growing pains and not an indicator of poor processing. He should at least be given the chance to prove that's the case as talented player with a little over a full season of actual NHL games played in the last 3 years. Lots of hockey to play before the trade deadline to know what we have in him.

I think it's embarrassing to even compare him to Gardiner actually.

I'm just watching, I don't see him being anything but a liability when it matters. And are his metrics artificial given his sheltering and zone usage? Still lots of time I suppose.

 

[Racer88]

How was Timmins at fault for last nights loss?

Exactly, when everyone knows it’s Sammy’s fault