Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 4-3 in Washington

[stealth1]

Some people aren't happy unless they're miserable.

I know it's only 8 games but for a team that's supposed to be one of the best in the league, .500 hockey isn't good enough.

 

[ShaneFalco]

and conversely in others minds there always has to be somebody to blame

Well when you see a team struggling with the same issues for years, there usually is. Assitants removed, new players added, depth added....so it's the coach or team construction. I know which one I'd fix first

 

[rumman]

if or when Babcock's replace, who does Leaf Nation blame for the team's poor play? Asking for a friend.

 

[djdev]

They don't necessarily have to play great defense but some sense of defense would be good. Maybe not shy away from contact would help too. The biggest problem with the Leafs is playing pond hockey. The fans and MLSE might like it as it's exciting to watch but against teams like Washington it doesn't work much.

i dont disagree, i just feel like the system being implemented clearly isnt working with the group we have. for me babs is still a great coach, but his ideal team is something similar to what we had his first year, which was his most successful imo. hard working grinders that played better than they had a right to. the system being implemented now is a miss with what type of team we have. its possible we need a coach to remove the training wheels and try to win with "pond hockey" i.e a more creative, top heavy style where our highest paid players play more. it just feels like a bad fit style wise imo. but thats just me lol.

 

[Gary Nylund]

if or when Babcock's replace, who does Leaf Nation blame for the team's poor play? Asking for a friend.

Saying how we should respond to an imaginary future is even more pointless then trying to predict that future.

 

[djdev]

Well when you see a team struggling with the same issues for years, there usually is. Assitants removed, new players added, depth added....so it's the coach or team construction. I know which one I'd fix first

"years" is a big stretch, this calendar year i will give you. but cmon, no need to exaggerate to try and argue your side.

 

[razkaz]

if or when Babcock's replace, who does Leaf Nation blame for the team's poor play? Asking for a friend.

Let's do it an find out!

 

[Mess]

When did Babcock use his time-out?

Leafs never used their time-out just used TV timeouts and goal stoppages.

Here is the game script to end the game.

16:15 Shot missed by Auston Matthews
16:50 Shot on goal by Morgan Rielly saved by Ilya Samsonov
16:51 Radko Gudas credited with hit on Auston Matthews in defensive zone
17:19 Nick Jensen credited with hit on Mitchell Marner in defensive zone
17:27 Even Strength Goal Scored by John Tavares assisted by Jake Muzzin and Kasperi Kapanen 3-4
17:27 Lars Eller won faceoff in neutral zone
18:31 John Tavares shot blocked by Lars Eller
18:48 Shot missed by Morgan Rielly
18:57 Tyson Barrie shot blocked by Tom Wilson
19:26 Giveaway by Lars Eller in defensive zone
19:38 Takeaway by T.J. Oshie in defensive zone
19:59 Tyson Barrie shot blocked by Radko Gudas
20:00 End of 3rd period
20:00 End of Game

So Matthews just had a shift and came off the ice with 3 minutes left and Tavares line came out and scored with 2:33 left and then continued on, as Leafs hemmed the Caps in their own Zone, and then when they pulled the goalie on the fly in the last minute again, Matthews was back out there replacing the goalie for the last minute of play.

Timeout never came into play as Leafs scored which is a natural timeout, and Matthews had a shift then skipped one resting for about 1 minute, and then came back out again for the final minute.

It was just game script and timing of shifts, but Matthews got 2 X separate shifts in the last 4 minutes of the game regardless. Matthews ended up with the most shifts 25 and the most TOI/g of all Leaf forwards with 20:20 on the night.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

so far Tavares is at 5.78 shots/60 (15th on the team) and 0.67 ixg/60 (10th). Last year he was at 11 shots/60 (2nd) and 1.44 ixg/60 (1st). so it's not a case of him getting his looks and not finishing for whatever reason. he's badly struggling to generate offense anywhere near last year, and last year he outperformed his expected performance

 

[Trapper]

if or when Babcock's replace, who does Leaf Nation blame for the team's poor play? Asking for a friend.

Then we can go back to the usual suspects before looking at the GM.

 

[Eddo22]

It's amazing how a dirty team like Washington only gets one penalty in a game.

 

[djdev]

It's amazing how a dirty team like Washington only gets one penalty in a game.

washington didnt play dirty last night, but sure, gotta blame something.

 

[ShaneFalco]

"years" is a big stretch, this calendar year i will give you. but cmon, no need to make stuff up to try and argue your side.

Not "starting on time", getting hemmed in own zone, stretch pass, predictable systems and line matchups, being out-worked for long stretches/games - these are ongoing and reocurring issues. Te biggest thing though is have they progressed, especially defensively under babcock? No. And are they playing to their potential? With this line-up, I'd say no

 

[hoglund]

i get the leafs havent looked great the last 5 or so games, but holy crap...some of these reactions. we are 8 games into the season and in genuine peril of half our fanbase here having strokes or committing harikari. why even watch if you get this worked up? doesnt seem like very much fun to me. if i dont like the game(like 3rd period vs tb) i turn it off and do something else. sport is supposed to be fun

You're right and this is the toughest part of the schedule for the whole year, 4 back to backs in October. Give them a break.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Something has to be done. The stars got over paid and now think they can coast the rest of their contract. Dubas stripped the team of any balls and we are very soft now. Babcock hasn't been able to fix any of our problems.

First thing, give us another 5 games and see what happens. If we are still bad, Babs needs to go. If Keefe can't get them to play like a top team, then Dubas needs to trade one of the core to send a message.

If this season ends the same as always, Dubas better prove he can learn better than Babs and fix the team's issues and give them some pushback.

I remember the game in the playoffs against the Caps a few years back.. Getting pushed around like we did last night and Kadri throws a massive hit and gets the guys back in it.

Tavares got man handled all night last night. Who is going to give push back? Muzzin can throw hits, but he knows if he does none of his team mates has his back if someone tries to fight him over it.

Just a mess. They better figure it out.

 

[djdev]

You're right and this is the toughest part of the schedule for the whole year, 4 back to backs in October. Give them a break.

good luck asking that of this fanbase haha.

 

[Mess]

It's amazing how a dirty team like Washington only gets one penalty in a game.

Washington really set the tone with 12 hits in the first period, some which left a mark like the one on JT and it softened up the Leafs as Washington dominated in the 2nd period and ran up 4 straight goals.

Playing the Leafs physical knowing there will be no push back, is what more and more teams will do as its a well known weakness of the Leafs player personnel.

Caps outhit our Leafs 31-9 in the game and when you have players like Tom Wilson and Radko Gudas in the lineup you know they will play physical all night. Teams know its how you slow down and control a skilled team built on speed, through physical play.

 

[djdev]

Not "starting on time", getting hemmed in own zone, stretch pass, predictable systems and line matchups, being out-worked for long stretches/games - these are ongoing and reocurring issues. Te biggest thing though is have they progressed, especially defensively under babcock? No. And are they playing to their potential? With this line-up, I'd say no

again, over the past calendar year they have clearly underperformed, and im not even saying a coaching change isnt whats required or wouldnt be beneficial. wasnt really what i was arguing in my previous post.

 

[Suntouchable13]

You're right and this is the toughest part of the schedule for the whole year, 4 back to backs in October. Give them a break.

Our stars + coach are all very well paid, so show us you can win when it's not so easy. They haven't yet. This is the NHL, it's not always going to be easy. Grind out a win when you're tired, show us you're mentally tough.

 

[crump]

Need an SOB on the right # 6 D and a Marchment type (although I don' think he's ready) on the 4th, but someone who can play AND hit AND punish the other team. Matthews tried last night, but it was just with his shot...at least 3 Caps were licking their wounds on the bench after that one shift.

Muzzin and Timoshov were the only guys laying hits it seemed last night. We don't need goons just the skilled guys to lay a bone cruncher once in a while. Go out with the intenion of setting the tone with a hit on your shift. They were pathetic last night.

 

[inthe6ix]

They don't necessarily have to play great defense but some sense of defense would be good. Maybe not shy away from contact would help too. The biggest problem with the Leafs is playing pond hockey. The fans and MLSE might like it as it's exciting to watch but against teams like Washington it doesn't work much.

The Caps, Bolts, us - we all play the same style of speed and skill hockey. If anything, that doesn't work against heavier teams like Boston and St. Louis, which is why we are bounced in the 1st round annually.

Let's see how it goes on Sat and Tues against the B's. We will need to play them the same way we did last Monday against the Blues, even though we lost.

 

[hoglund]

Our stars + coach are all very well paid, so show us you can win when it's not so easy. They haven't yet. This is the NHL, it's not always going to be easy. Grind out a win when you're tired, show us you're mentally tough.

As a fan you need to take your own advice and realize that being a Leaf's fan isn't always going to be easy, stay strong, things will improve. Go Leafs!

 

[djdev]

Washington really set the tone with 12 hits in the first period, some which left a mark like the one on JT and it softened up the Leafs as Washington dominated in the 2nd period and ran up 4 straight goals.

Playing the Leafs physical knowing there will be no push back, is what more and more teams will do as its a well known weakness of the Leafs player personnel.

Caps outhit our Leafs 31-9 in the game and when you have players like Tom Wilson and Radko Gudas in the lineup you know they will play physical all night. Teams know its how you slow down and control a skilled team built on speed, through physical play.

not all hits are created equal, in the first period the caps were being badly out possessed and outplayed and the hits were reactionary. in the second it was more off the forecheck and the leafs on occasion clearly have issues with a heavy forecheck. so for me its impossible to just look at hits on a stats page and get an accurate view of what actually happened.

 

[hoglund]

if or when Babcock's replace, who does Leaf Nation blame for the team's poor play? Asking for a friend.

The players, the coaches are always the scapegoats, but face it, it's the players.

 

[shaner82]

They don't necessarily have to play great defense but some sense of defense would be good. Maybe not shy away from contact would help too. The biggest problem with the Leafs is playing pond hockey. The fans and MLSE might like it as it's exciting to watch but against teams like Washington it doesn't work much.

The Leafs proved this theory wrong last year against Boston. The Leafs outhit Boston and almost beat them. If not for Kadri being stupid, the Leafs probably do win that series.

They can beat Washington with the type of players they have. They can beat anyone. Matthews, Marner and Nylander are not physical players, that's just the way it is. They never will be so people need to stop expecting it. But they create scoring chances that result in goals. Goals win games and they can score goals without throwing hits. Not everyone needs to be Gary Roberts. There's room in the league for the non physical types. The two greatest players in the history of the game weren't physical players at all. They used their stick to get in the lanes, not their bodies. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out which 2 players I'm talking about