Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 3-0

[Guided by Veseys]

Yes, you're correct. Matthews is most certainly no Crosby. Which is why I brought up a follow up point, which is that Matthews is PAID like Crosby. Matthews is the highest paid player in the league (once term is considered). He's dramatically overpaid.

Claiming "I don't care about contracts" in a salary cap league is asinine.

I care about contracts but I wasn’t discussing contracts when responding to the other poster. You just decided to quote me and start talking about contracts for some reason. I thought the contract was pretty brutal, no breaks were given. I do think Marner will be signed no problem although I’m sure many people would talk endlessly about how we are doomed, I’ll wait until that actually happens though.aa for Dubas, he’s a rookie GM, He’s not at the top of chain of command here, everything he has been doing is cleared first by the president and mlse board of directors. It’s nice to have a fall guy but Dubas alone isn’t the guy pulling the strings.

 

[justafan22]

I care about contracts but I wasn’t discussing contracts when responding to the other poster. You just decided to quote me and start talking about contracts for some reason. I thought the contract was pretty brutal, no breaks were given. I do think Marner will be signed no problem although I’m sure many people would talk endlessly about how we are doomed, I’ll wait until that actually happens though.aa for Dubas, he’s a rookie GM, He’s not at the top of chain of command here, everything he has been doing is cleared first by the president and mlse board of directors. It’s nice to have a fall guy but Dubas alone isn’t the guy pulling the strings.

Every GM has a boss FFS

 

[Notsince67]

Both of these possibilities speak to an ego that's grown out of control.



Maybe, it's hard to say anything for sure with the action taking place behind the curtains so to speak. If Dubas isn't standing up to Babcock then sure, he needs to do it. If however he has stood up to him and Babcock is ignoring him, that's when it would be time for Shanahan to step in and tell Babcock to play ball if he wants to stay on the team.

It's hard to achieve anything when the key players aren't on the same page. I'm also starting to think there might not be enough room in this big city of ours for Babcock's ego, I've pretty much had it with him and his superior attitude.

Yet the first sign of trouble this year seemed to begin by Dubas insisting on keeping Sparks.
Additional political capital was lost by the mishandling of the Nylander/Matthews/Marner contracts.
Dubas may be a lame duck who has lost the confidence of his coach

 

[RadekBong]

McQuaid is mediocre at best. He wouldn't be making a difference right now.

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

Yet the first sign of trouble this year seemed to begin by Dubas insisting on keeping Sparks.
Additional political capital was lost by the mishandling of the Nylander/Matthews/Marner contracts.
Dubas may be a lame duck who has lost the confidence of his coach

This is all panicking and BS. The leafs have a long term plan that involves having stars on their team who have reached their primes as Crosby Ovi Marchand Chara Etc retire.

This year isn’t the only year that matters. They have rough waters ahead because of the Marleau and Zeitsev contracts but the storm is clearing. The Kessel payments will expire, the cap will go up, Marleau and Z will be gone and we will still have Matthews, Tavares, Marner and Nylander to build a team around.

Dubas is playing the long game. This looks like the hardest year in decades to creep through the eastern conference, and everyone’s knows it.

Management ain’t panicking and fans shouldn’t either.

 

[Notsince67]

Completely ridiculous. Matthews having the game he's having and you only give him 5:26 in the 3rd period and 18:19 in the game despite trailing for 55 minutes.

Don't expect you to be biased here so look at this:

Maybe it wasn't Matthews line that should have played more

 

[IPS]

Don't expect you to be biased here so look at this:
View attachment 202303
Maybe it wasn't Matthews line that should have played more

So you didn't watch the game and see that Matthews was very clearly our best forward.

Interesting.

 

[Kurtz]

Then why is he the 2nd highest paid player in the league (arguably 1st highest paid player, when term is considered)?

He's the 2nd highest player in the league because salaries go up every year and he's the most recent superstar to sign a contract.

This off-season, Karlsson, Panarin, Point and Rantanen will sign new deals that will be for similar money to Austin. In the upcoming years, if the cap keeps rising, you'll see players inferior to Austin signing for more than him.

 

[Notsince67]

This is all panicking and BS. The leafs have a long term plan that involves having stars on their team who have reached their primes as Crosby Ovi Marchand Chara Etc retire.

This year isn’t the only year that matters. They have rough waters ahead because of the Marleau and Zeitsev contracts but the storm is clearing. The Kessel payments will expire, the cap will go up, Marleau and Z will be gone and we will still have Matthews, Tavares, Marner and Nylander to build a team around.

Dubas is playing the long game. This looks like the hardest year in decades to creep through the eastern conference, and everyone’s knows it.

Management ain’t panicking and fans shouldn’t either.

I'm not panicking. I take solace that there isn't a singular person that can screw this team up permanently. Dubas likely does not have the power to fire Babcock unilaterally and Babcock will ultimately be held accountable for his contribution to an early round exit if it happens. Shanahan owns the plan and any big changes to it will require his personal action in the form of strategic changes. If management does not perform because it is unwilling to work together, it will change driven by a detailed adjudication of all decisions.

 

[Notsince67]

So you didn't watch the game and see that Matthews was very clearly our best forward.

Interesting.

I saw the game and I thought Matthews was fantastic. Unfortunately, minutes are given to lines and I wasn't convinced that as a line they were the best performing. Fact is that Marner had more scoring chances than Matthews. Whether that was a better utilization of his line mates and defensive corps or just better playing is irrelevant.

 

[IPS]

I saw the game and I thought Matthews was fantastic. Unfortunately, minutes are given to lines and I wasn't convinced that as a line they were the best performing. Fact is that Marner had more scoring chances than Matthews. Whether that was a better utilization of his line mates and defensive corps or just better playing is irrelevant.

Do you watch other teams around the league by any chance?

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

I'm not panicking. I take solace that there isn't a singular person that can screw this team up permanently. Dubas likely does not have the power to fire Babcock unilaterally and Babcock will ultimately be held accountable for his contribution to an early round exit if it happens. Shanahan owns the plan and any big changes to it will require his personal action in the form of strategic changes. If management does not perform because it is unwilling to work together, it will change driven by a detailed adjudication of all decisions.

Okay that’s fair then. Can’t argue with this.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Don't expect you to be biased here so look at this:
View attachment 202303
Maybe it wasn't Matthews line that should have played more

Where do you get those graphs?

 

[Notsince67]

Where do you get those graphs?

This one I got from MoneyPuck.com

 

[diceman934]

Dam I miss Lou... far to much talk in the media since he is gone. Our GM and his assine comments. Starting right at camp. Him and Babcock have not been on the same page. Then Babcock coming out in the Media throwing backhand comments to Dubas about the Muzzin trade and our lack of Depth and size.

Where the hell is Shamny. You screwed up by sending Babcock with his tail tucked to talk to the Mathews taking away his power. Losing Lou as a result forcing Dubas into a roll that he is proven that he is not ready for.

We have become a poop show again. Players talking smack. Saying we quit. We show no emotion etc. None of this happens with Lou in charge.

 

[X66]

Dam I miss Lou... far to much talk in the media since he is gone. Our GM and his assine comments. Starting right at camp. Him and Babcock have not been on the same page. Then Babcock coming out in the Media throwing backhand comments to Dubas about the Muzzin trade and our lack of Depth and size.

Where the hell is Shamny. You screwed up by sending Babcock with his tail tucked to talk to the Mathews taking away his power. Losing Lou as a result forcing Dubas into a roll that he is proven that he is not ready for.

We have become a poop show again. Players talking smack. Saying we quit. We show no emotion etc. None of this happens with Lou in charge.

Huge over reaction!

What has Dubas shown he's not ready for the job?

He got Tavares
He got Muzzin without giving up a roster player or Sandin/Liljegren
He got Sandin, which is looking like a big steal

That's a damn good first year.

Dubas is not the reason Dermott and Gardiner got hurt, and he's not the reason Andersen hasn't been himself lately.

I'll tell you one thing, if a roster has two franchise centers, two top line wingers, a norris contender, and a vezina contender, there should be zero excuses for the coach not being able to get things done.

You want Lou back to give Zaitsev and Marleau extensions?

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

Do you watch other teams around the league by any chance?

I like the highlights, personally!!!!!!

 

[diceman934]

Huge over reaction!

What has Dubas shown he's not ready for the job?

He got Tavares
He got Muzzin without giving up a roster player or Sandin/Liljegren
He got Sandin, which is looking like a big steal

That's a damn good first year.

Dubas is not the reason Dermott and Gardiner got hurt, and he's not the reason Andersen hasn't been himself lately.

I'll tell you one thing, if a roster has two franchise centers, two top line wingers, a norris contender, and a vezina contender, there should be zero excuses for the coach not being able to get things done.

You want Lou back to give Zaitsev and Marleau extensions?

Dubas “ I can and I will” , “we are only looking at long term contracts”. Etc none of his sound bites needed to be said.

Anyone could have gotten JT. Our skilled players and his home town was what happened.

Muzzin trade appears to be at best just ok as of right now and we paid big for him when we needed a right shot D man.

My biggest issue is the sound bites and the need to get in a pissing match with his coach.
We added Petan at the deadline I like the add but why no depth D man with some size. Or even a forward with size.

People blame Lou for Zaitsev and Mathews contract but when he left we had a huge amount of cap space available to use. He got rid of Dion without retaining, he saved us money on the Marner contract with only paying some of the bonuses. He signed Rielly and Kadri at very good value. Traded for Freddy. I still say that Marleau deal was only a two year deal with him going to Lou’s island for the last season.

Babcock has a lot of blame no doubt and Shanny needs to pull his head out of his butt and stop the circus now.

I say Babcock is gone after the season even if we win a round. That does not change the fact that our roster is not near good enough currently.

Players have been given a licence to say what ever they want. This would never have happened with Lou.

I have lost a lot of respect for Babcock with his comments to the media. And knew that Dubas was in over his head this year with his attitude during media scrums during camp and not on the same page with his coach. Telling to me was Lou not at the press conference announcing Dubas. Just an FYI I wanted us to hire an experience GM. Toronto is not the place for a rookie GM to cut his teeth. His handling of the two contracts has been bad but expected.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

If you think matthews has been the best player night in and night out, you don't like hockey...you like matthews

Sorry but I don't just look at the score sheet to judge how someone is playing.

 

[Notsince67]

Sorry but I don't just look at the score sheet to judge how someone is playing.

Fantastic. Based on scoring chances, Marner had a more successful game than Matthews last game. You can't have it both ways

 

[rumman]

Patty Burns, Felix "the Cat" Potvin and Dougie leading the charge was the last time I truly believed Leafs had a Cup team in 93 and 94 because they could play defense and had players like Osboure - Zezel and Billy Berg as role playing players surrounding the skill players, and grinding out wins.

Nashville seems like a team built similarly to Leafs of the 1993 & 1994 stylistically.

I agree I don't think a lot of millennial Leaf fans would like a Leafs team built like that because they tend to want to run the workers out of town, and want offense first players throughout the roster and size and grit not an issue to impact compete levels. Goals and more goals is not a Defense wins championships position.

completely agree, but those team were not boring to watch it was a hybrid between old time hockey with speed and skill and a whole lot of HEART and Passion for the sweater the players wore. Maybe the new NHL has passed me by?

 

[Lightsol]

Tampa has to get rid of 2 guys this summer to sign Point. Now maybe Point will come off his 12M ask but maybe not? I am 100% sure Tampa will do something before July 1st as somebody will offer Point and give up 4 1sts. It is a game of chicken in Tampa now as they decided to keep everyone for the Cup run this year and rightly so. If they win Cup they might let Point go and take the 4 1sts. But Tampa will not be the same team next year. They will be weaker. Then when Vasi asks for 10M the following year another 2 guys will go the following year. Again they will get weaker again.
Boston is a CAP team this summer too but they are getting much older too.

If anyone is willing to offer Point 12 million, if I'm Tampa, I take the firsts and laugh all the way to the bank. Point has been Kucharov's center for the past couple of years, so you can ask with a straight face: How good is he by himself? Is he good enough to carry a line, or are Kucharov and Johnson (both of whom have been successful in the past) carrying him?

But I bet they get Point signed for less than we get Marner.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Yes, you're correct. Matthews is most certainly no Crosby. Which is why I brought up a follow up point, which is that Matthews is PAID like Crosby. Matthews is the highest paid player in the league (once term is considered). He's dramatically overpaid.

Claiming "I don't care about contracts" in a salary cap league is asinine.

Matthews contract isn't that crazy when you look at the percentage on the cap. Has he earned it since signing is another question. The disappearing act is a big red flag. The superstars need to step up when the team is struggling, not the guys making peanuts compared to them.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Fantastic. Based on scoring chances, Marner had a more successful game than Matthews last game. You can't have it both ways

I said I wasn't referring to the score sheet and you immediately go back to the score sheet and look at shots.

I'm talking about playing mad and physical. Auston finally is playing with a burr under his saddle

Mitch has been less then his usual self for a bit now, some games Willy has been the better player. Auston and JT have been our best players for the past while now hands down.

 

[Tlo1]

Do we even have a plan on the PP or do they just wing it?