Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 3-0

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Throw More Waffles

Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
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Crosby is a top 5 player of all time. Nobody on this planet could have realistically assumed matthews would perform at that level.
He’s a perennial 40-50 goal scorer and that’s pretty amazing. The guy has delivered as advertised 100%
Then why is he the 2nd highest paid player in the league (arguably 1st highest paid player, when term is considered)?
 

ACC1224

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Muzzin himself isn't a depth guy, but adding him still gives us depth as our regular #6 before the deal becomes our depth guy.
Yep and another guy brought in would have pushed another guy back a spot.
 

ACC1224

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Like who?
It's pointless to list a bunch of players that will be nitpicked at for a bunch of different reasons.
Could it really have been that difficult to give up a late pick for a player that could push Holl back a spot?
 

17 Clark

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Mar 22, 2015
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Nashville is a good t
eam with best defense but they will not get past the Peg (same as last year). Winnipeg has so much more offense and a defense that can match up. That said Rinne is always the wild card. He can stand on his head if he is in beast mode and win 4 games on his own. You are never out of it when you have a goalie like Rinne.

Our Leafs generated 1 10 beller chance and Rinne saved it. The rest of chances were not that good. Our forwards were neutralized by their defense.

Ourthe harder pass to Marner up the middle. It was easily picked off and created the goal. Not much Fredd could do. But thing is who is instructing Muzzy to try this high risk play. When I watched him in LA he always made the safe pass to clear the zone. There is something wrong here and it is emblematic of what . Somebody is getting Muzzy to change Our media core is not doing enough to ask the detailed hockey questions post game. We ask powder puff questions and get back the Babs dribble. Someone should say is DJ recommending the high risk high reward cross ice pass in your own end? or the safe up the board clearance play? And who is correcting this mistake so it stops occurring.

2nd chance thank god they hit the post. Marner Kadri and Rielly on the PP take a Preds 2 on 3 and are made to look like high schoolers by the Preds 2 guys. A complete and total lack of effort by all 3 on the defensive side of the game. Quite frankly it should have been 2-0 except Johansen hit post on a wide open net from 10 feet. He is next to useless. And Freddy looked really bad how he played it too.

3rd chance while i don't like blaming any of our 3 AHL level defenders was another house league mistake by Oz. Sure Marleau screwed up but there are so many forward defensive mistakes but they can be covered up in most cases. This was one of those. Oz had his preds man in front of net. He chose to leave him and skate mindlessly into the corner for no good reason. Then cross ice pass to his open man for a tap in. Not much Freddy could do. Again where is the media questioning on the hockey side of things? Nothing. No one is held accountable by the media. I guess they all like their jobs paid for by the Leafs so it is a total conflict of interest situation going on here.

4th chance was empty netter but again a house league play by Rielly who made a very soft feed give away with very limited pressure to Preds.

That was more like a playoff game for sure but chances were 4 to 1 Preds. Boston has more offense too.

But I repeat from yesterday when you are going with Z, Marincin and Oz you have 3 AHLers who should not be playing in the NHL. Holl I think could be developed with more game time to a #7 but right now he is an AHLer too because he has not played enough this year. You simply can't win an NHL game with 3 AHLers on your back end. Clearly Dubas and Babs know it now but they were not smart enough to figure it out when we had a chance to correct it. Then again maybe they did and said well this is not going to be our year anyways so why give him some more assets to help us get through round 1. Maybe they don't think getting through round 1 is all that important. Maybe we have a huge dissconnect between the older guys who want a win this year and the younger Dubas who may be planning for a couple seasons out when Boston declines and Tampa has its cAP issues.
Kind of confused when Tampa has a cap issues or Boston declines we are going to have her own cap issues so I’m not sure of your point
 

Gary Nylund

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I'm confident that there would have been players other than McQuaid available.
Both would make a difference.

I don't consider Muzzin depth, he's a legit top 4 player. he needs to be better though.

There's always guys available, that doesn't mean it makes sense to complain about not getting them, especially when you don't know the price and especially when the pickups only play if unforeseen injuries happen.

Everyone needs to play better. That's the problem, our zillion dollars of talent isn't playing like it, not that we didn't pick up another bargain priced depth piece or two.
 
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Mess

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but, but defense isn't sexy enough for the majority of Leaf Nation. :sarcasm:

"Defense wins Championships and offense sells tickets". Toronto doesn't need to sell tickets to fill the Arena, but it drives revenue and earning potential of MLSE.

Everyone loves offensively talented players, but I'm a traditionalist that you need to build a strong support cast of workers around them, and have a Dcore that is the teams strength not its weakness.

A team built on offense to outscore their mistakes and needs to put up 5/6 goals to win is Russian roulette strategy. Good strong defensive teams like Nashville know how to suppress offense and its easier to prevent a goal than score one. Nashville top 4 on D is among the envy of the league and I would love if the Leafs would focus more on their Dcore going forward.

Strong defense might not be sexy, but it sure helps you be more consistent and more competitive.
 

Throw More Waffles

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I don’t know lol
But nonetheless he is significantly less cap percentage than Crosby was after elc so no point in comparing the two.
In 2007, Crosby became the highest paid player in the nhl after a 120 point season.
In 2019, Matthews became the highest paid player in the nhl (once term is conisdered) after a 69 point season.

Dubas got hosed. It's an unacceptable contract that's now going to result in a dramatic overpayment to Marner as well. Dubas should be flat out fired.
 

Throw More Waffles

Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
Oct 9, 2015
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"Defense wins Championships and offense sells tickets". Toronto doesn't need to sell tickets to fill the Arena, but it drives revenue and earning potential of MLSE.

Everyone loves offensively talented players, but I'm a traditionalist that you need to build a strong support cast of workers around them, and have a Dcore that is the teams strength not its weakness.

A team built on offense to outscore their mistakes and needs to put up 5/6 goals to win is Russian roulette strategy. Good strong defensive teams like Nashville know how to suppress offense and its easier to prevent a goal than score one. Nashville top 4 on D is among the envy of the league and I would love if the Leafs would focus more on their Dcore going forward.
To be fair, it looks like Toronto is trying to follow the Pittsburgh method. A team that has won 2 of the last 3 cups.
 

JT AM da real deal

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We got our depth before the deadline. Jake Muzzin was added. McQuaid has been useless for the CBJ, do people really want Erik Gudbranson and his 4M cap hit next year?

What other D was available and out there that would have been a move that made sense. Don't forget the Leafs also want to make sure they have enough cap space THIS year to pay the ELC bonuses because we won't be able to afford them next year.
I get the CAP space argument. So this year is basically a throw away due to injuries/ bad CAP management. McQuaid has not been useless for Columbus. When they absolutely needed to win 2 games to combat a losing streak dumb *ss Torts threw McQuaid into line-up. Guess what occurred. Go watch those 2 games and learn rather than spouting inaccuracies. McQuaid made a bone breaking hit on one of bruins on the cycle, shuffled it up the boards and Jackets score when game on line and then finished them off with a bomb from point and scores. Then he was on ice almost non stop to protect the lead and ensure the win. and after game Torts all he can say is "wow". What a complete jack*ss.

We can all be Leaf fans but please stop making up garbage inaccurate posts. They are factually incorrect McQuaid has not been useless (in fact he may be chief reason why they are still in playoff race). Now i happen to have played and have 2 sons still playing minor pro now one with Leafs. Did you know that McQuaid is fearless? Did you know that it was McQuaid on the ice against US/Leafs in last 2 minutes in every playoff game Bruins were holding on against us in last seasons playoffs. That is exactly the type of leadership we need.

The bruins did not have the CAP space to keep him. They are signing Chara back. and they have 3 key guys up as RFA's so they like us are right up against the MAX CAP. They had no choice. Much like we have no choice with Gards. It is exact same type of situation.

Eric Gudbranson different type of player. Not what we needed.
 

Guided by Veseys

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In 2007, Crosby became the highest paid player in the nhl after a 120 point season.
In 2019, Matthews became the highest paid player in the nhl (once term is conisdered) after a 69 point season.

Dubas got hosed. It's an unacceptable contract that's now going to result in a dramatic overpayment to Marner as well. Dubas should be flat out fired.
Whatever ya think man. I wasn’t commenting on his contract. A poster made a comment where he felt like Matthews was expected to be comparable to Crosby. I’m not interested in the contract, not sure why you felt it relevant to discuss in response to my post, I was talking about skill level comparison and meeting draft expectations.
 

JT AM da real deal

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Kind of confused when Tampa has a cap issues or Boston declines we are going to have her own cap issues so I’m not sure of your point
Tampa has to get rid of 2 guys this summer to sign Point. Now maybe Point will come off his 12M ask but maybe not? I am 100% sure Tampa will do something before July 1st as somebody will offer Point and give up 4 1sts. It is a game of chicken in Tampa now as they decided to keep everyone for the Cup run this year and rightly so. If they win Cup they might let Point go and take the 4 1sts. But Tampa will not be the same team next year. They will be weaker. Then when Vasi asks for 10M the following year another 2 guys will go the following year. Again they will get weaker again.
Boston is a CAP team this summer too but they are getting much older too.
 
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zeke

The Dube Abides
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I'll say it - I was happy with this game.

Leafs played well, and played playoffs hockey, and deserved to win.

I love the way Auston is playing right now.


Still don't think Freddy's head is straight - don't know what he was doing on that shorthanded chances by Ryjo. Just gave him a wide open net for no reason.
 
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rumman

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"Defense wins Championships and offense sells tickets". Toronto doesn't need to sell tickets to fill the Arena, but it drives revenue and earning potential of MLSE.

Everyone loves offensively talented players, but I'm a traditionalist that you need to build a strong support cast of workers around them, and have a Dcore that is the teams strength not its weakness.

A team built on offense to outscore their mistakes and needs to put up 5/6 goals to win is Russian roulette strategy. Good strong defensive teams like Nashville know how to suppress offense and its easier to prevent a goal than score one. Nashville top 4 on D is among the envy of the league and I would love if the Leafs would focus more on their Dcore going forward.

Strong defense might not be sexy, but it sure helps you be more consistent and more competitive.
I'm in agreement with you, but most here aren't, they'd rather see flash and dash then watch a solid team grind out win after win. NHL isn't pond hockey.
 

rumman

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To be fair, it looks like Toronto is trying to follow the Pittsburgh method. A team that has won 2 of the last 3 cups.
Crosby, Malkin, Hornquist, 3 top nine forwards that are anything but butter soft, I don't see the comparison unless your only referring to the D.
 
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Throw More Waffles

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Whatever ya think man. I wasn’t commenting on his contract. A poster made a comment where he felt like Matthews was expected to be comparable to Crosby. I’m not interested in the contract, not sure why you felt it relevant to discuss in response to my post, I was talking about skill level comparison and meeting draft expectations.
Based on his CONTRACT, he should be comparable to Crosby. He's the highest paid player in the league when term is considered. That's the specific argument being made.
 
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Mess

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I'm in agreement with you, but most here aren't, they'd rather see flash and dash then watch a solid team grind out win after win. NHL isn't pond hockey.

Patty Burns, Felix "the Cat" Potvin and Dougie leading the charge was the last time I truly believed Leafs had a Cup team in 93 and 94 because they could play defense and had players like Osboure - Zezel and Billy Berg as role playing players surrounding the skill players, and grinding out wins.

Nashville seems like a team built similarly to Leafs of the 1993 & 1994 stylistically.

I agree I don't think a lot of millennial Leaf fans would like a Leafs team built like that because they tend to want to run the workers out of town, and want offense first players throughout the roster and size and grit not an issue to impact compete levels. Goals and more goals is not a Defense wins championships position.
 
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Al14

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Unfortunately there isn't enough time to play a different style so as good as they've done points-wise, I consider this a lost season at this point.
It's never too early to start making changes and moving towards making next season a much better success, especially if this season is truly lost!

If Babcock is the problem from getting maximum effort from the team, especially the high paid core, then, make the change now, even if it means only appointing an interim coach.

As it stands right now, our Leafs are in a position to finish with LESS POINTS than last season. And, that's with another season of maturation of the young guns, as well as adding Tavares and Muzzin! Unbelievable!
 

Guided by Veseys

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Based on his CONTRACT, he should be comparable to Crosby. He's the highest paid player in the league when term is considered. That's the specific argument being made.
Yes that is the argument that you are making. I haven’t made a statement judging the contract as good or bad, it wasn’t the point of my original post about Crosby. Nobody thought Matthews was going to be close to Crosby, contract is independent of that fact. Matthews has delivered as per his draft hype, that is also independent of contract. What I am discussing is independent of contract. You think it is a terrible contract, so do lots of other people, fans, media, executives alike.
 

Throw More Waffles

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Yes that is the argument that you are making. I haven’t made a statement judging the contract as good or bad, it wasn’t the point of my original post about Crosby. Nobody thought Matthews was going to be close to Crosby, contract is independent of that fact. Matthews has delivered as per his draft hype, that is also independent of contract. What I am discussing is independent of contract. You think it is a terrible contract, so do lots of people.
Yes, you're correct. Matthews is most certainly no Crosby. Which is why I brought up a follow up point, which is that Matthews is PAID like Crosby. Matthews is the highest paid player in the league (once term is considered). He's dramatically overpaid.

Claiming "I don't care about contracts" in a salary cap league is asinine.
 
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