Seravalli: Leafs, Kings, Penguins, Devils, Hurricanes, Senators, all fits for Hellebyuck.

[wintersej]

Seller's market for Jets if they choose to move on. Helle is going to be worth a lot more than some random goalie your teams has and a 4th.

The Vezina winner will also be possibly out there which mutes it.

 

[Lateralous]

30 for a goalie isn't the same as 30 for a forward or D.

Goalies can and do play at a high level until 38, 39, 40.

Look at Brodeur, Roy, Hasek, Belfour, MAF Sawchuck, Bower, Thomas.

They have been doing it for decades.

30 for a goalie is different if you can get Hellebyuck you do it.

Wait, what? These guys were the exception to the rule. Also, Hellebuyck doesn't belong anywhere near this list.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Wait, what? These guys were the exception to the rule. Also, Hellebuyck doesn't belong anywhere near this list.

I'm not saying he's as good as them, just that they prove my point, that being that goalies play at a high level for longer than forwards and D.

30 for a goalie is different

 

[Forge]

30 for a goalie isn't the same as 30 for a forward or D.

Goalies can and do play at a high level until 38, 39, 40.

Look at Brodeur, Roy, Hasek, Belfour, MAF Sawchuck, Bower, Thomas.

They have been doing it for decades.

30 for a goalie is different if you can get Hellebyuck you do it.

Shots fired at Craig Anderson

 

[Flair Hay]

Nylander for Hellebyuck isn't going to happen, goalies don't bring back 40 goal scorers.

Now if it was Hellebyuck+ Ehlers

For Nylander + whatever it ended up being that a little different because you aren't creating a giant gaping hole on offense.

If Nylander is involved it's a blockbuster and it's not Nylander for Hellebyuck

I'm not so sure I agree with this.

Great goalies don't get moved often because there isn't very many of them. Their teams tend to hang on to them wherever possible.

Heck, the Jets have their own 40 goal guy in Scheifele that isn't worth as much as Hellebuyck on the market. 3 years older of course.

A consistent top 5 goalie is arguably a more valuable piece than a top 5 winger is it not? Maybe I'm way off, I haven't seen the WAR or GAR numbers to say one way or the other.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I'm not saying he's as good as them, just that they prove my point, that being that goalies play at a high level for longer than forwards and D.

30 for a goalie is different

I disagree.

All those goalies you mentioned were elite level goalies, with some of the highest save % and GAA of goalies, all time. And those goalies you mentioned, they are one of the fortunate ones who haven’t had significant injury issues during their playing careers.

You also fail to recognize that those goalies also were good goalies for majority of their tenures. They had an extraordinary peak which lasted not just 5 or so years, but 10+ years of consistent goaltending further showing why they’re some of the best goalies of the last 20 years.

Todays goalies can crap out suddenly and quickly. Murray, Holtby, Binnington, Schneider, Crawford (injuries), etc. Just because goalies can play longer doesn’t mean they’re actually going to be good.

 

[Akrapovince]

Do the Sens still have the assets to outbid some of these teams? I think we’re out and left as dumpster divers for goaltenders.

Lassi Thomson, Bernard-Docker, etc don’t compete with the likes of what others can offer up. I think we’d be hesitant to give up more picks.

Helle is a goalie that is always solid and WILL steal games. That’s game changing. I’d throw everything we could at him.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm not so sure I agree with this.

Great goalies don't get moved often because there isn't very many of them. Their teams tend to hang on to them wherever possible.

Heck, the Jets have their own 40 goal guy in Scheifele that isn't worth as much as Hellebuyck on the market. 3 years older of course.

A consistent top 5 goalie is arguably a more valuable piece than a top 5 winger is it not? Maybe I'm way off, I haven't seen the WAR or GAR numbers to say one way or the other.

All I have to do to prove my point is Look at 2 fairly recent examples that being MAF and Fredrik Andersen.

When Fredrik Andersen was traded to Toronto he was 25 and had shown he could be the #1 guy.

Fredrik Andersen got the 30th overall pick and a 2017 2nd.

MAF coming off a vezina, got traded to Chicago for a random minor leaguer, and originally reported as nothing.

Now obviously Hellebyuck would get more especially in MAF's case that was just disrespectful but it show that goalies don't have high trade value.

Other examples include Roy to Colorado

Hasek to Detroit

Louongo to Vancouver turned out to be BAD for Florida

Goalies don't have high trade value for some reason, it's odd but it's true.

 

[dixie]

Ullmark is available to any of the teams that have 2 first round picks!Chicago,San Jose,Arizona,Detroit,St. louis, could all use a goalie!

 

[Big Muddy]

This is the per usual Leafs get everyone off season thing while other teams are still playing in the Stanley Cup.

 

[AcerComputer]

Goalies rarely get traded for more than a late 1st. Usually a disappointing return. Rather keep our assets and improve the middle 6. Samsonov is young and had a great season he shutout the Panthers in his last game before getting hurt.

 

[kylbaz]

Fwiw, I doubt he's traded before the draft. It'd probably be an offseason trade, so extensions can be discussed.

I wonder if there is someone the Jets really like in the draft they'll try and use him for it

 

[AssaultPK]

Does it make sense for Toronto? Ilya Samsonov was terrific. If you can lock him in on a 3-5 year deal in the 3.75-4.5 range, does that not make more sense than paying a 31+ year old (by the time the extension kicks in) probably 9M+? - On top of giving up the 1st round pick AND a 40 goal scorer.

And not like Samsonov is some random. He's always had potential to be a really good goalie. And he's finding his stride in Toronto working with Sanford.

Leafs are going to be linked to every big name this summer, but I don't think this is an avenue Toronto should go down.

What do you do with Woll

 

[Guffman]

“Goaltenders don’t get traded for…”

When has a 3-time Vezina finalist in their last 6 years of play been traded?

Use your brains, people.

Hellebuyck is the missing piece for a lot of teams. Get bidding.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Goalies rarely get traded for more than a late 1st. Usually a disappointing return. Rather keep our assets and improve the middle 6. Samsonov is young and had a great season he shutout the Panthers in his last game before getting hurt.

But Hellebyuck is better, if you can upgrade you do it.

“Goaltenders don’t get traded for…”

When has a 3-time Vezina finalist in their last 6 years of play been traded?

Use your brains, people.

Hellebuyck is the missing piece for a lot of teams. Get bidding.

Hasek comes to mind immediately, yes he was traded to Detroit

 

[Sol]

I really wouldn’t want him. Always gave me strong mental midget vibes. Hard pass.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Actually I think you are selling the Sabres assets short.

Perhaps you haven't heard of Devon Levi. Also perhaps you haven't considered the Sabres are currently not even a playoff team / haven't entered their window (ie not a great timeline fit for a 30yo goaltender)

Levi is just a kid with like 2 weeks of NHL experience, if the Sabres are aiming to make the playoffs next season (and they should considering how good they are offensively), putting all their goalie hopes on his shoulders is asking a lot, IMO.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Adin Hill is about to win a Stanley Cup potentially

you don't need an all-star level goalie to win.

I mean even if he wins it you kind of do.

If you go back to 1980 today there are 3 examples of non legitimate #1 goalies winning cups and 2 of those are Chris Osgood.

Chris Osgood in 98, Chris Osgood in 2008, and anti Niemi in 2010, and even he's borderline because he had some great years in SJ.

You could argue Cam Ward but he won playoff MVP so he was a legitimate #1

You could argue Binnington but he carried the Blues.

Chris Osgood is basically the guy.

Don't believe me take a look.

80-83 Smith, 84, Grant Fhur, 85 Grant Fhur, 86 Roy, 87 Fhur, 88 Fhur,89 Veron, 90 Fhur, 91 Brassoo, 92 Brassoo, 93 Roy, 94 Ritcher, 95 Brodeur, 96 Roy 97 Veron, 98 Osgood, 99 Belfour, 2000 Brodeur, 2001, Roy, 2002 Hasek, 2003 Brodeur, 2004 Bulin, 2006 Ward, 2007, Giguere, 2008 Osgood, 2009, Fluery, 2010 Niemi, 2011 Thomas, 2012 Quick, 2013 Crawford, 2014, Quick, 2015, Crawford, 2016 Murray, 2017 Murray/MAF, 2018 Holtby, 2019 Binnington, 2020 Vaselskiy, 2021 Vaselskiy, 2022 Kuempeur.

That is every goalie that's won a cup since 1980.

How many goalies do you see that support your argument.

I see 2, arguably 3, but 2.

1 Chris Osgood

2 Matt Murray and even Matt Murray is arguable because he was incredible in those years.

You could argue Niemi but again he wasn't a 1 season wonder.

The rest are eiter guys in the Hall Of Fame, are locks for the hall of Fame or, they at least have a shot.

Adin Hill winning would change nothing.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

There is definitely a deal to be made with Toronto. They have a goalie replacement (Samsonov) another pending UFA star player (Nylander) and a 2023 1st rd. pick.

There is a deal here that makes sense.

That is an absolutely obscene asking price. Goalies never fetch that much. Most I’d do is Samsonov, Robertson and a 1st.

 

[PainForShane]

Levi is just a kid with like 2 weeks of NHL experience, if the Sabres are aiming to make the playoffs next season (and they should considering how good they are offensively), putting all their goalie hopes on his shoulders is asking a lot, IMO.

What you're saying is true, but imo it's not the point.

As a neutral, imo Sabres have a legit chance to create a modern day dynasty -- they have excellent prospects at every position and players like Tage Thompson and Dahlin will soon be elite if they aren't already.

If you're building a cup team, in this cap world imo you need value somewhere, elite production from young, relatively cheap players (like Levi for instance) is one way to do it.

Anyway like you said, it's too early to tell w Levi. But, give the guy a chance for the next 1-2 years, if he doesn't work out, sure trade for a goalie if needed. Until then he's probably the best goalie prospect in the entire league, why would you give up on him before even giving him a chance.

Put another way, imo the worst thing you could do is give up legitimate assets (like Quinn or something) while blocking an elite prospect realistically ever having a chance to be your starter. You're making your team worse in multiple areas why would anyone do that.

But yeah, I don't know whether the goal is playoffs next year... but certainly the goal / hope is to start a cup window in the next 3 or 4. By that time Levi will have enough experience that everyone will know his upside by then, if he ends up not good enough THAT is when you trade for / overpay a mid-career goalie like Hellebuyck. Certainly not at this point in time when you have a potential elite goalie who's about to take significant reps for the first time ever and you haven't even entered your cup window anyway

 

[eojsmada]

Could see the Hurricanes in that mix, only because they have the Cap space to take him. Everyone else, especially the Leafs (unless they trade one of their "core" away), is a hard no. Even then, I don't think the Hurricanes have the assets to make it work for Winnipeg, since it begins with a good prospect goalie, and at least a 1st rounder (considering it will be a late 1st) and at least 1 roster player. Teams other than Carolina will have to include a Cap dump to make it work which means the asset value of the other pieces would be higher.

Also Winnipeg has stated (via Eliotte Fredman) that they are not going to rebuild but will move some current roster players to be competitive as quickly as possible. Winnipeg also has the easiest salary cap to be able to re-sign him.

 

[Guffman]

Hasek comes to mind immediately, yes he was traded to Detroit

Yes, you have to reach back over 20 years for an example. These opportunities to acquire elite goaltenders is extremely rare.

Get bidding, contenders, if you’re serious about a Stanley Cup.

 

[KeziaTML]

I'd rather just run with Samsonov and Woll and target Helle, if he makes it to FA

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'd rather just run with Samsonov and Woll and target Helle, if he makes it to FA

That makes no sense, he's available now, so get him now, the opportunity exists now, it may not in a year

 

[seanlinden]

Here's the problem with trading for / investing in goalies:

1. You can get potentially the same performance from a guy making $2m, as you can from a guy making $10m. Case in point, look no further than the Hill vs Bob matchup in the finals.... that's $8m the Knights can spend putting a better team infront of Hill.

Now, if you're a good team, you can't necessarily rely on a guy like Hill to put on that kind of show, but the reality is, it seems every year, something like that happens and puts every other team at a disadvantage. Hoping for lightning in a bottle is a somewhat well-reasoned approach.

2. Goaltending can be very fickle. John Gibson looked like a perennial Vezina candidate at age 24-25... yet he's been crap for the last 4 years, in what one would normally expect to be his prime. Matt Murray won 2 cups with the Pens and looked like a perennial all star at age 22... now bouncing around at age 29.

3. Because goaltending is so important... guys tend to get paid very much based on what they've shown, not neccessarily what they can be expected to show over the duration of the contract. It can somewhat limit their trade value.


With Hellebuyck, you obviously have to love the consistency he's brought on a usually somewhat mediocre jets team. At $6m, he's a great value.

However, to re-sign him, you're probably looking at reasonably significant raise, knowing full well you're going to run into a team that's getting the same, or similar play, out of their $2-3m goalie.