Eklund Rumor: Leafs eyeing: (ANA) Rakell, and (BUF) Staal

[CrosbyMalkin]

No reason why Zucker should be as valuable, hasn't shown the same offensive ceiling and makes 50% more on the cap.

You are attempting to use Kapanen's production after the trade, I was referring to his value when he was dealt. In his very best season he hadn't produced any more than Rakell did in his down years.

Either way the Kapanen trade is probably the closest comparable, and that would require a piece more valuable than a 1st coming from a contender.

Big difference in those comparisons. While they might have around the same numbers these past 2 1/2 years one was doing it in his first 2 1/2 years and the other was doing it fully developed. That best season of Kapanen's you are referring to was his 22 year old rookie season when he had 20 goals and 44 points with 41 of those points being 5v5 version. So he was not inflating his numbers from the PP. Even in a down year the next season being behind two top line RW's which pushed him down to the 3rd line he still was on pace for a 40+ point season again with only 3 of those points again coming from PP time.

So when we traded for Kapanen we factored in upside of being able to improve on his numbers in a top 6 position and improving in his 3rd year in the league starting his prime years at 24. With Rakell having several down years in a row and at 27 he is not the same situation. I agree though that they are equal value and said from the start that Rakell would bring a 1st and a B level prospect.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I think the main argument when talking with leaf fans is what do you consider a top prospect.... I’ve seen a lot of players take that label. Basically Sandin robertson liljegren amirov niemla have all taken that label.

abramov is more or less bracco 2.0

what does that really leave you with? Hirovinen or sda? Oh and hallander

from the beginning I have been saying 1st+Niemela+Engvall but I think Kerfoot may be the odd man out

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Big difference in those comparisons. While they might have around the same numbers these past 2 1/2 years one was doing it in his first 2 1/2 years and the other was doing it fully developed. That best season of Kapanen's you are referring to was his 22 year old rookie season when he had 20 goals and 44 points with 41 of those points being 5v5 version. So he was not inflating his numbers from the PP. Even in a down year the next season being behind two top line RW's which pushed him down to the 3rd line he still was on pace for a 40+ point season again with only 3 of those points again coming from PP time.

So when we traded for Kapanen we factored in upside of being able to improve on his numbers in a top 6 position and improving in his 3rd year in the league starting his prime years at 24. With Rakell having several down years in a row and at 27 he is not the same situation. I agree though that they are equal value and said from the start that Rakell would bring a 1st and a B level prospect.

A 1st + B level prospect can turn out to be a lot less than Kapanen returned, if that pick ends up being much later. If we are assuming that it's a playoff bound team that's acquiring Rakell and further improving their team in the process, that first very well could be 10-15 picks later than the one from the Kapanen deal. Amirov is more of an equivalent as the main piece.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

A 1st + B level prospect can turn out to be a lot less than Kapanen returned, if that pick ends up being much later. If we are assuming that it's a playoff bound team that's acquiring Rakell and further improving their team in the process, that first very well could be 10-15 picks later than the one from the Kapanen deal. Amirov is more of an equivalent as the main piece.

Ya I think people forget kapanen was traded for 15th overall not a 1st , from a team that currently sits comfortable in a playoff spot and poised for a decent run

 

[Deadly Dogma]

A 1st + B level prospect can turn out to be a lot less than Kapanen returned, if that pick ends up being much later. If we are assuming that it's a playoff bound team that's acquiring Rakell and further improving their team in the process, that first very well could be 10-15 picks later than the one from the Kapanen deal. Amirov is more of an equivalent as the main piece.

I have a hard time seeing our 1st AND 1 of Roberston, Sandin, Lilj and Amirov in a deal.
I think for a straight Rakell@50% our 1st is a must and Niemela plus Kerfoot.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

No reason why Zucker should be as valuable, hasn't shown the same offensive ceiling and makes 50% more on the cap.

You are attempting to use Kapanen's production after the trade, I was referring to his value when he was dealt. In his very best season he hadn't produced any more than Rakell did in his down years.

Either way the Kapanen trade is probably the closest comparable, and that would require a piece more valuable than a 1st coming from a contender.

I think Zucker and Rakell are almost the perfect comparison. In fact Zucker was closer by a full season to his 30+ goal and 60+ point season when he was traded. Both have been 40+ points since.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I think Zucker and Rakell are almost the perfect comparison. In fact Zucker was closer by a full season to his 30+ goal and 60+ point season when he was traded. Both have been 40+ points since.

Rakell is playing some of the best hockey of his career right now, that is why teams are calling. Zucker was still having a down year and carried a much larger contract that was being shopped for some time.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I think the main argument when talking with leaf fans is what do you consider a top prospect.... I’ve seen a lot of players take that label. Basically Sandin robertson liljegren amirov niemla have all taken that label.

abramov is more or less bracco 2.0

what does that really leave you with? Hirovinen or sda? Oh and hallander

I view Sandin/Robertson/Liljegren and Amirov as A prospects.
I dont view them as B prospects or long shots.
I dunno on Niemela and Hirovinen they look great and right now I wouldnt even consider moving them, after the WJC they are hyped up. might as well be considered A prospects value wise even if they are b prospects. If a team comes knocking on leafs door value will be just as high I would think atleast.
I view guys like Zegras A++
so viewing the guys I said as A's isn't crazy. they all look like they should and could have good NHL careers. how successful is another question.
Hallander is prob closer to a b prospect. he looks great but more of a long shot I think.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I view Sandin/Robertson/Liljegren and Amirov as A prospects.
I dont view them as B prospects or long shots.
I dunno on Niemela and Hirovinen they look great and right now I wouldnt even consider moving them, after the WJC they are hyped up. might as well be considered A prospects value wise even if they are b prospects. If a team comes knocking on leafs door value will be just as high I would think atleast.
I view guys like Zegras A++
so viewing the guys I said as A's isn't crazy. they all look like they should and could have good NHL careers. how successful is another question.
Hallander is prob closer to a b prospect. he looks great but more of a long shot I think.

I guess for me I had robertson/Sandin significantly above liljegren and amirov. I think robertson and Sandin can become top line players, where I see liljegren topping off as a 2nd pairing guy, and amirov a middle 6.

hallander niemla and hiro are good prospects, but don’t really excite me enough to want to move Rakell... if bm doesn’t like the market he can move Rakell at draft for a defined pick, were in a position where we don’t have to move him if the value isn’t there and I hope bm keeps that in mind

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I guess for me I had robertson/Sandin significantly above liljegren and amirov. I think robertson and Sandin can become top line players, where I see liljegren topping off as a 2nd pairing guy, and amirov a middle 6.

hallander niemla and hiro are good prospects, but don’t really excite me enough to want to move Rakell... if bm doesn’t like the market he can move Rakell at draft for a defined pick

I dont wanna be biased as a Leafs fan. Ill just throw them around the same. if I say that about Robertson Ill be called a typical leafs fan lmao
He for sure has potential to be that I think him and Amirov are the 2 best. Sandin and then Liljegren.
I think Liljegren will be the better overall Dman though

 

[axlrose87]

I guess for me I had robertson/Sandin significantly above liljegren and amirov. I think robertson and Sandin can become top line players, where I see liljegren topping off as a 2nd pairing guy, and amirov a middle 6.

hallander niemla and hiro are good prospects, but don’t really excite me enough to want to move Rakell... if bm doesn’t like the market he can move Rakell at draft for a defined pick, were in a position where we don’t have to move him if the value isn’t there and I hope bm keeps that in mind

I agree that Anaheim does not have to make a move. Rakell will hold considerably less value if they let the trade deadline pass them by, however.
An acquiring team wants him this year and next. If it is a move only for next year, the price will drop accordingly.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I dont wanna be biased as a Leafs fan. Ill just throw them around the same. if I say that about Robertson Ill be called a typical leafs fan lmao
He for sure has potential to be that I think him and Amirov are the 2 best. Sandin and then Liljegren.
I think Liljegren will be the better overall Dman though

I’ll say out of those 4 amirov is the 1 I know the least of, ducks generally don’t do Russians so I never pay attention to Russian players. So your judgement on him is prob much more defined.

I love Robertson’s game, really wish the ducks woulda taken him with our late 1st or early 2nd. I watched a ton of Sandin cause I was convinced that’s who we would choose that year.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I agree that Anaheim does not have to make a move. Rakell will hold considerably less value if they let the trade deadline pass them by.
An acquiring team wants him this year and next. If it is a move only for next year, the price will drop accordingly.

In some ways but you also open up more trading partners. If the difference is a mid lvl prospect, we got plenty of those.... at least if we wait til draft we can target a player we really like in the draft and use Rakell to get us to that pick.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Rakell is playing some of the best hockey of his career right now, that is why teams are calling. Zucker was still having a down year and carried a much larger contract that was being shopped for some time.

Some of his best hockey? 6 goals and 19 points in 29 games is not any better than 14 goals and 29 points in 45 games when the Pens made that deal. Plus Zucker was picked up for much more than his point production. Zucker was attractive to the Pens for his speed and his 200' two way game just as much as his scoring. Also you might be right about the cheaper cap but don't forget we traded for Zucker with 3 1/2 years under contract and the team getting Rakell get 1 1/2 years before he is a UFA.

So Zucker was a year closer to his 30+ goal and 60+ point season and both had been 40+ point players the year before the trade. Zucker had 3 1/2 years of control and Rakell has 1 1/2 at a cheaper rate. As I said they are very comparable when talking about trade value. 1st round pick and a B prospect is fair value for Rakell. Sorry you don't live in reality.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Some of his best hockey? 6 goals and 19 points in 29 games is not any better than 14 goals and 29 points in 45 games when the Pens made that deal. Plus Zucker was picked up for much more than his point production. Zucker was attractive to the Pens for his speed and his 200' two way game just as much as his scoring. Also you might be right about the cheaper cap but don't forget we traded for Zucker with 3 1/2 years under contract and the team getting Rakell get 1 1/2 years before he is a UFA.

So Zucker was a year closer to his 30+ goal and 60+ point season and both had been 40+ point players the year before the trade. Zucker had 3 1/2 years of control and Rakell has 1 1/2 at a cheaper rate. As I said they are very comparable when talking about trade value. 1st round pick and a B prospect is fair value for Rakell. Sorry you don't live in reality.

Wasn’t zucker heavily critiqued for his 2 way game in Minnesota?

 

[axlrose87]

In some ways but you also open up more trading partners. If the difference is a mid lvl prospect, we got plenty of those.... at least if we wait til draft we can target a player we really like in the draft and use Rakell to get us to that pick.

Yes, but at that point, you are also competing with free agents that can be signed without giving up assets.
The time to trade him is now. He is a depreciating asset afterwards.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Some of his best hockey? 6 goals and 19 points in 29 games is not any better than 14 goals and 29 points in 45 games when the Pens made that deal. Plus Zucker was picked up for much more than his point production. Zucker was attractive to the Pens for his speed and his 200' two way game just as much as his scoring. Also you might be right about the cheaper cap but don't forget we traded for Zucker with 3 1/2 years under contract and the team getting Rakell get 1 1/2 years before he is a UFA.

So Zucker was a year closer to his 30+ goal and 60+ point season and both had been 40+ point players the year before the trade. Zucker had 3 1/2 years of control and Rakell has 1 1/2 at a cheaper rate. As I said they are very comparable when talking about trade value. 1st round pick and a B prospect is fair value for Rakell. Sorry you don't live in reality.

He started the year with only one goal on his first 50+ shots, an unsustainably low shooting percentage. You claim to live in reality, but it seems like you are living on hockeydb. In reality, teams employ these guys called pro scouts, to evaluate players beyond just looking at their stats. It has been reported that teams are calling are on Rakell and the price is said to be high - largely due to the fact that he is playing fantastic hockey this season. Watch even one game of this player you are attempting to evaluate and you will plainly see it for yourself.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Yes, but at that point, you are also competing with free agents that can be signed without giving up assets.
The time to trade him is now. He is a depreciating asset afterwards.

Ya but most free agents arnt going to sign for 1.9-3.8 mil. I’m not really fully in the camp of trading Rakell i don’t mind discussing it , but I also don’t mind keeping him and resigning him.... he’s been our best player by a long shot this year.... he had an “off” year last year but had an injured wrist. He plays well with skilled player I like to imagine we’ll have a little more skill next year

 

[axlrose87]

Ya but most free agents arnt going to sign for 1.9-3.8 mil. I’m not really fully in the camp of trading Rakell i don’t mind discussing it , but I also don’t mind keeping him and resigning him.... he’s been our best player by a long shot this year.... he had an “off” year last year but had an injured wrist. He plays well with skilled player I like to imagine we’ll have a little more skill next year

Oh I agree that he will still have some value in the offseason. It will just be considerably less. Two post season runs vs one.

 

[57special]

Wasn’t zucker heavily critiqued for his 2 way game in Minnesota?

no

 

[CatchyTune]

I think the main argument when talking with leaf fans is what do you consider a top prospect.... I’ve seen a lot of players take that label. Basically Sandin robertson liljegren amirov niemla have all taken that label.

abramov is more or less bracco 2.0

what does that really leave you with? Hirovinen or sda? Oh and hallander

Abramov-Bracco is a really bad comp. he is 19 in the Q, not a small AHLer

 

[Djp]

what would be the ask from each team?

I don't know a lot about Rakell. Does he command a 1st?

buffalo is a clear seller..with retention they are asking a 2nd

Rakell has 1+ yrs left so anaheimcan retain the amount left in the season making him free for acquiring team. His price woukd be 1st+ with that retention.

Toronto coukd trade a top prospect instead of a high pick

be ause of Rakell salary next year they need to send out Kerfoot in that deal or another.

nobody wants him. If they take him back it costs even more from Toronto.

buffalo isn’t taking Kerfoot back. They want cap flexibility the next couple years.

next year buffalo has $20m in space but have 11/4/0 with RFAs ( Dahlin, Reinhart, Mitts included) signed. 2 G= $5M, resign Mccabd $3M 1 yr. that makes them 11/5/2. Promote 4 young players 2F/2D on under $1M contracts leaves them with about $8M for a UFA or resigning Hall. They can’t take back a $3M+ dump.

 

[BLONG7]

It would seem the leafs need some cap space, and maybe a goalie?

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

He started the year with only one goal on his first 50+ shots, an unsustainably low shooting percentage. You claim to live in reality, but it seems like you are living on hockeydb. In reality, teams employ these guys called pro scouts, to evaluate players beyond just looking at their stats. It has been reported that teams are calling are on Rakell and the price is said to be high - largely due to the fact that he is playing fantastic hockey this season. Watch even one game of this player you are attempting to evaluate and you will plainly see it for yourself.

Will see what the return is. Then I will say I told you so. No need to debate it any further.

 

[lwvs84]

With 2022 being a better draft, instead of a late first and a prospect that's a long shot to be a top 6 player, taking lower value next year (just a 1st with no prospect or lower ranked prospect) might be a better option. Ducks have plenty of depth players coming up, it's the higher end players they are lacking. A late first and a team's 4th or 5th best prospect is likely only going to get them more of what they have. By next year, they can negotiate an extension with Rakell, and if they don't like the terms they can let other teams negotiate prior to the trade to increase his value. Just because they trade him in the off-season/next year doesn't mean he has to be a rental for the other team.