Proposal: Leafs Ducks

[Sojourn]

Where did i say it was a bad thing? I said we played him wrong which was a bad thing.

You might want to read your posts in this thread regarding Fowler.

You’re pretty clearly saying it’s a bad thing.

 

[dracom]

Where did i say it was a bad thing? I said we played him wrong which was a bad thing.

ok i'll re-phase, when did a defensemen being a 2/3 become not helpful to a team? Why would a team want to get rid of 2/3 defensemen?

 

[Sojourn]

ok i'll re-phase, when did a defensemen being a 2/3 become not helpful to a team? Why would a team want to get rid of 2/3 defensemen?

When it’s Fowler, who is the whipping boy. All objectivity goes out the window.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

And your solution is to make it worse.

Is this the “two wrongs make a right” plan? Because, I have to say, that might work in math when you multiply or divide positive and negative numbers, but as far as asset management goes that’s just two wrongs.

My solution is based on the fact that what fowlers #s were last year, we can do better w/ other options.

Im curious as to what you think fowler brings that other dmen off trades/fa cant.

 

[Sojourn]

ok i'll re-phase, when did a defensemen being a 2/3 become not helpful to a team? Why would a team want to get rid of 2/3 defensemen?

The part that makes me really uncomfortable is we would suddenly be relying more on Lindholm and Manson. Lindholm is less the issue(but he hasn’t been great this season either), but Manson... he’s been kind of terrifying this season, and far more so than Fowler.

I don’t want to be relying even more in a defenseman who seems to leap between top pairing quality and borderline 7th defenseman quality.

 

[Sojourn]

My solution is based on the fact that what fowlers #s were last year, we can do better w/ other options.

Im curious as to what you think fowler brings that other dmen off trades/fa cant.

If last season was this current one, the entire team was garbage. There is a reason Carlyle was fired. Manson was worse, and Lindholm was disappointing too. Are you ready to move on from them? I’m guessing you’d say no, because you would dismiss it as one season, and you want to see how they do under a different coach.

Why aren’t you trying to throw Manson at opposing fans? He was, by far, our most inconsistent defenseman and far worse than Fowler when he was having bad nights.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

William Nylander + Nazem Kadri (after Nylander bonus is paid July 1)

Adam Henrique + Hampus Lindholm

the money works a little bit in the Leafs favour,

Lindholm gives Rielly a worthy partner

Here we go again.......

The theme or angle of our trade proposals should focus more on player subtraction and reduction of salary cap because that is the situation we face this summer.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

ok i'll re-phase, when did a defensemen being a 2/3 become not helpful to a team? Why would a team want to get rid of 2/3 defensemen?

Im more worried bout his contract, i dont expect us to contend next year pendin trades/fa signing. Maybe 8-12 in west.


ive said before i hope its a confidence/coaching thing ... cause this season he was awful(yes the team sucked, but he was the worst)... no reason why our highest paid dmen should be in that discussion.

I realize hes not goin to get moved, the team thinks too highly of him, and no team will offer what our gm thinks is fair.

Maybe continueing the trend of giving lindholm the dzone faceoff, pk, and harder matchups will help him...

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

If last season was this current one, the entire team was garbage. There is a reason Carlyle was fired. Manson was worse, and Lindholm was disappointing too. Are you ready to move on from them? I’m guessing you’d say no, because you would dismiss it as one season, and you want to see how they do under a different coach.

Why aren’t you trying to throw Manson at opposing fans? He was, by far, our most inconsistent defenseman and far worse than Fowler when he was having bad nights.

Id agree, but manson is basically our only RHD... if we had more rhd, id consider movin him to.

I wanted to sell high on manson last off season. Mansons saving grace is he has looked good w/ lindholm.

 

[Sojourn]

Id agree, but manson is basically our only RHD... if we had more rhd, id consider movin him to.

I wanted to sell high on manson last off season. Mansons saving grace is he has looked good w/ lindholm.

You need to remember that this isn’t fantasy hockey. These aren’t stocks that you buy low and sell high on. The goal here isn’t to amass the most resources. It’s to win hockey games. If you move Manson, you need to replace him. If you move Fowler, you need to replace him.

And by replace him, I don’t mean stick a young prospect into the role and hope he can tread water.

I don’t think Murray has done a particularly good job the last few years, but your strategy isn’t going to help the team win games. It’s just going to involve a lot of player movement, and then scrambling to actually build a blue line because we have run out of NHL top 4 defensemen.

We might be able to work around that if we had a legitimate #1 elite D talent who can play 30 minutes a game. We don’t. We don’t have anyone even close to that. So, we don’t have the depth to use guys like Lindholm, Manson, or Fowler less, and we don’t have any individual player who we can lean on heavily to help make up for that.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

You need to remember that this isn’t fantasy hockey. These aren’t stocks that you buy low and sell high on. The goal here isn’t to amass the most resources. It’s to win hockey games. If you move Manson, you need to replace him. If you move Fowler, you need to replace him.

And by replace him, I don’t mean stick a young prospect into the role and hope he can tread water.

I don’t think Murray has done a particularly good job the last few years, but your strategy isn’t going to help the team win games. It’s just going to involve a lot of player movement, and then scrambling to actually build a blue line because we have run out of NHL top 4 defensemen.

Id agree with most of that. Losing theodore was big.... idk why we got rid of both vatanen and montour we no RHD in our system. All i know is BM has a lot of work to do... startin w/coachin... then fixin the defense.

 

[Sojourn]

Id agree with most of that. Losing theodore was big.... idk why we got rid of both vatanen and montour we no RHD in our system. All i know is BM has a lot of work to do... startin w/coachin... then fixin the defense.

That’s one of the reasons I’m frustrated with Murray lately. It definitely goes beyond this season. He’s slowly(and yet quickly) turned one of the deepest teams in the NHL, in terms of young D talent, into a team that seems to lack in those areas.

And I don’t think he has much to show for it.

I don’t have a ton of faith in him right now. Personally, I think it’s probably time to move on from him. He’s been slow to adjust, and seems too reactionary in his methods. He also comes across as stubborn in moving on from his own mistakes. I think he’s an old school hockey GM who is struggling to manage a team in the current NHL.

 

[dracom]

Im more worried bout his contract, i dont expect us to contend next year pendin trades/fa signing. Maybe 8-12 in west.


ive said before i hope its a confidence/coaching thing ... cause this season he was awful(yes the team sucked, but he was the worst)... no reason why our highest paid dmen should be in that discussion.

I realize hes not goin to get moved, the team thinks too highly of him, and no team will offer what our gm thinks is fair.

Maybe continueing the trend of giving lindholm the dzone faceoff, pk, and harder matchups will help him...

See, I think we can be a playoff team next season with the right coaching. With a quality coach and Gibson I don't see how we aren't at the very least contending for the 3rd place spot in our division since it still sucks. I know I've mentioned it before, but I don't think his contract will end up looking that bad over the next few years. Player contracts are going up; older guys on cheap deals now will see large pay raises, players are getting more coming out of their ELCs.

 

[405Exit]

You need to remember that this isn’t fantasy hockey. These aren’t stocks that you buy low and sell high on. The goal here isn’t to amass the most resources. It’s to win hockey games. If you move Manson, you need to replace him. If you move Fowler, you need to replace him.

And by replace him, I don’t mean stick a young prospect into the role and hope he can tread water.

I don’t think Murray has done a particularly good job the last few years, but your strategy isn’t going to help the team win games. It’s just going to involve a lot of player movement, and then scrambling to actually build a blue line because we have run out of NHL top 4 defensemen.

We might be able to work around that if we had a legitimate #1 elite D talent who can play 30 minutes a game. We don’t. We don’t have anyone even close to that. So, we don’t have the depth to use guys like Lindholm, Manson, or Fowler less, and we don’t have any individual player who we can lean on heavily to help make up for that.

You have to remember. Getz2Perry is trying to move a 2/3 Fowler for a broken Nylander this off season. Ducks take all the risk in that trade scenario hoping he bounces back 2 seasons ago. While TORonto takes the safe bet and knows what they are getting.

Take his reasonings with a grain of salt.

 

[405Exit]

Id agree with most of that. Losing theodore was big.... idk why we got rid of both vatanen and montour we no RHD in our system. All i know is BM has a lot of work to do... startin w/coachin... then fixin the defense.

Ducks need to be focusing on fixing the offense and not the defense. There’s a reason why Ducks are last in the league for Goals For and not Goals Allowed. Fix the defense all you want. It isn’t going to change anything if your top 6 can’t score.

Ducks couldn’t even break 200 goals this season. Ain’t that embarassing. 199 what a joke.

Defense isn’t the issue. And I don’t get why you don’t understand that when statistics are right In front of you.

Also Dman Hunter Drew shoots right. And he is also in our Ducks system. 51 pts in 61 games for Charlottetown Islanders this season QMJHL.

So that’s wrong as well regarding no RHD in our system.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Ducks need to be focusing on fixing the offense and not the defense. There’s a reason why Ducks are last in the league for Goals For and not Goals Allowed. Fix the defense all you want. It isn’t going to change anything if your top 6 can’t score.

Ducks couldn’t even break 200 goals this season. Ain’t that embarassing. 199 what a joke.

Defense isn’t the issue. And I don’t get why you don’t understand that when statistics are right In front of you.

Also Dman Hunter Drew shoots right. And he is also in our Ducks system. 51 pts in 61 games for Charlottetown Islanders this season QMJHL.

So that’s wrong as well regarding no RHD in our system.

Drew isnt likely to be a nhl player next year. And at the time of both of those trades he was irrelvent.


If we didnt have gibson standin on his head we would be bottom of the league in goals against also.

Good offense can be helped by good defense... our pp needs a legit ppqb/rhd. Dmen help transition the puck to the forwards.

As for offense, coachin change will help. Kesler not being in the line up will be a +. Healthy kase will help. Terry steel jones and possibly comtois at some point gives us more offensive minded players to put into line up. Ritchie w/ another offseason. Plenty of things to fix the offense without doing anything crazy.

Silf and rakell have shown chemistry, as well as kase and ritchie.

 

[Fogelhund]

You have to remember. Getz2Perry is trying to move a 2/3 Fowler for a broken Nylander this off season. Ducks take all the risk in that trade scenario hoping he bounces back 2 seasons ago. While TORonto takes the safe bet and knows what they are getting.

Take his reasonings with a grain of salt.

Fowler to the Leafs makes no sense for the Leafs... our need is RD, and you can't afford to give one up right now. We aren't good trade partners.

 

[Ncit3]

Nylander isn't available.

Aka Nylander nearly has negative trade value.

 

[dracom]

You have to remember. Getz2Perry is trying to move a 2/3 Fowler for a broken Nylander this off season. Ducks take all the risk in that trade scenario hoping he bounces back 2 seasons ago. While TORonto takes the safe bet and knows what they are getting.

Take his reasonings with a grain of salt.

again with the irony. You still want to move our prospects and players for picks? or have you gone back to moving our 1st round pick for a couple of 2nds?

 

[405Exit]

Drew isnt likely to be a nhl player next year. And at the time of both of those trades he was irrelvent.


If we didnt have gibson standin on his head we would be bottom of the league in goals against also.

Good offense can be helped by good defense... our pp needs a legit ppqb/rhd. Dmen help transition the puck to the forwards.

As for offense, coachin change will help. Kesler not being in the line up will be a +. Healthy kase will help. Terry steel jones and possibly comtois at some point gives us more offensive minded players to put into line up. Ritchie w/ another offseason. Plenty of things to fix the offense without doing anything crazy.

Silf and rakell have shown chemistry, as well as kase and ritchie.

It’s all about the coach. You been saying that the entire season. What’s your excuse going to be if they repeat this process next season as well????? Bob Murray? You’re a melting pot of excuses rather than making players accountable.

Being last in the league isn’t a coaching problem. Being last in the league means your top 6 is utter trash. Like honestly wake up and see the light bulb. My stats don’t lie. Your excuses for being worst in the league with Goals For is a lie regarding coaching issues.

 

[405Exit]

again with the irony. You still want to move our prospects and players for picks? or have you gone back to moving our 1st round pick for a couple of 2nds?

I’ll move whatever I have to. Being last in the league in scoring isn’t a fricken coaching issue. That means your forward group is utter trash.

Blaming one particular part which obviously isn’t the defense. Like you all make out it to be isn’t the issue. Because it’s not last in the league in goals allowed.

Stats don’t lie. Ducks couldn’t even break 200 goals while the entire league did. In a very goal friendly season.

 

[405Exit]

Fowler to the Leafs makes no sense for the Leafs... our need is RD, and you can't afford to give one up right now. We aren't good trade partners.

Nylander isn’t going to fetch you A RHD like you’re expecting. He has negative value. With RHD at a premium you’re gonna have to significantly add. Regardless if you don’t trade with Anaheim.

 

[Morgs]

Aka Nylander nearly has negative trade value.

 

[Fogelhund]

Nylander isn’t going to fetch you A RHD like you’re expecting. He has negative value. With RHD at a premium you’re gonna have to significantly add. Regardless if you don’t trade with Anaheim.

Seriously bad hot take on Nylander. Negative value... lol That's like saying Manson was bad last year, he has no value anymore... it's just not bright.

Strangely, I didn't even mention Nylander, yet you go on some weird tangent.

How about we just close this off... Toronto needs RD, Anaheim doesn't have any they can give.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

It’s all about the coach. You been saying that the entire season. What’s your excuse going to be if they repeat this process next season as well????? Bob Murray? You’re a melting pot of excuses rather than making players accountable.

Being last in the league isn’t a coaching problem. Being last in the league means your top 6 is utter trash. Like honestly wake up and see the light bulb. My stats don’t lie. Your excuses for being worst in the league with Goals For is a lie regarding coaching issues.

The team played much better w/o a coach than they did with rc as coach. The stats are right in front of you.

I showed you how our offense will improve, not to mention we are in line to have a solid draft this year.

And offense improves a bit with fixing the defense, we need a top 4 rhd bad... that is our biggest hole