Proposal: Leafs & Canucks

[LordZapp]

Don't be silly. Of course we would.

The original proposal here was Rielly + Zaitsev for Tanev.. If you think that's fair you're clueless.

The current proposal is Dermott (Who we value very highly as he's certainly a top 4 D) + Zaitsev for an aging Tanev, who is basically the defense Lupul.

I was more than happy to offer a 1st + b prospect, or Kappy + 2nd~ for him.

I said nothing about the fairness. Just that I've never seen a proposal that leaf fans liked.

 

[bukwas]

Where?? There isn't one person in here that was ok with the OPs proposal. Don't make things up because I criticized the leafs.

Which one?
It started with Reilly and Dermott.

 

[MR4]

It's pointless to make these threads, Leafs fans don't understand what Tanev would do for them, GM's understand, but not the fans,

And I'm not sure their CURRENT GM understands either, he seems to think player personnel decisions are like collecting hockey cards...he's going to learn the hard way what Lamarello already knew, you don't overload one position with big money big ego players most of whom do not have versatile skill sets and are vying for the same ice time...all the while ignoring what has been the team's most glaring weakness:

"I know! let's get more of what we already have! That means none of our top paid players will be getting optimal ice time or situation deployment...It's like reverse psychology...do my hipster glasses look OK? Oh! Oh! Shanny! Can we get a Stamkos too! Please!? PLEASE!?"

The Leafs are going to be pointing fingers (Jeff Finger's) and tearing themselves apart from within by November, this will be highly entertaining (More so than the Canucks) I see no reason to help them.

Nobody seems to have figured out that simply due to personal, it will be very difficult for Tavares to get much over 65 pts. this year, and that those 65 will be at Mathews, Nylander, Kadri, Marleau and Marners expense, not added on top...oh, boy! I love me a good Leafs clusterf**k, and this year is going to be HISTORIC!

It's SO FUNNY to see a Team make ONE SINGLE SMART MOVE (Hiring a qualified GM who knows how to do the job) have that guy totally rebuild their team like a champ, then watch the team fire that GM when he tries to explain to them why the new toy they want is a bad idea...while all the while Shanahan figures Lou has done enough of the work to ensure the result, so he can him thinking HE will be the one to take all the credit...

...and he's right, he'll take the credit for being an idiot.

2018-19 Islanders UP....Leafs DOWN

And still, none of you will be able to figure out why...Why you needed Tanev and not Tavares...Why firing the guy who fixed your team is monumentally stupid. Can we just start the season already!?

I'm so EXCITED!!

I love HF, I really do. You can't find better jokes than the ones you find here

 

[Atomos2]

Untouchable lol

Untouchable

 

[Thorvat]

Not suprisingly this thread was brought back to life by leaf fans.

Give us Nylander or GTFO

 

[LeafGrief]

We've seen the Tanev movie before, it was called Joffrey Lupul back then and it was on our cap until this summer. Very good player who just couldn't stay healthy and eventually lost his edge and spiralled out of the lineup. Tanev is a good hockey player and I would be happy to have him on the Leafs. I'd be happy to trade a 1st plus for him, the game he plays would be a great fit.

But you're out of your tree if you think we're going to give up significant assets for a guy who misses that many games. I don't care if it's mumps, shotblockong, or flipping pancakes, a guy with that many injuries in that many years has a whole lot of question marks on him and the injuries do add up. We watched Lupul shrivel from a fantastic PPG power forward into a scared and weak perimeter winger before he got shipped off to Robidas Island. Once bitten, twice shy, were not going to pay elite prices for a glass man. A 1st plus and we'll talk. If we're trading Nylander (which we f***ing aren't) we'd go out and get Spurgeon or something, a significantly better player and doesn't have anywhere near the question marks.

 

[Thorvat]

We've seen the Tanev movie before, it was called Joffrey Lupul back then and it was on our cap until this summer. Very good player who just couldn't stay healthy and eventually lost his edge and spiralled out of the lineup. Tanev is a good hockey player and I would be happy to have him on the Leafs. I'd be happy to trade a 1st plus for him, the game he plays would be a great fit.

But you're out of your tree if you think we're going to give up significant assets for a guy who misses that many games. I don't care if it's mumps, shotblockong, or flipping pancakes, a guy with that many injuries in that many years has a whole lot of question marks on him and the injuries do add up. We watched Lupul shrivel from a fantastic PPG power forward into a scared and weak perimeter winger before he got shipped off to Robidas Island. Once bitten, twice shy, were not going to pay elite prices for a glass man. A 1st plus and we'll talk. If we're trading Nylander (which we ****ing aren't) we'd go out and get Spurgeon or something, a significantly better player and doesn't have anywhere near the question marks.

Tanevs value is at an all time low.

We aren't trading him for the low value he would likely get on the trade market. We are better off keeping him. If he can stay healthy throughout the coming season he will have more value at the the trade deadline. We could also keep him and re-sign him if he gels well on a a pairing with Huhges.

Benning isn't selling low on Tanev.

 

[LeafGrief]

Tanevs value is at an all time low.

We aren't trading him for the low value he would likely get on the trade market. We are better off keeping him. If he can stay healthy throughout the coming season he will have more value at the the trade deadline. We could also keep him and re-sign him if he gels well on a a pairing with Huhges.

Benning isn't selling low on Tanev.

Seems like you're trying to convince yourself more than trying to argue anything with me. It's cool if Benning isn't selling low, it's mighty obvious that Dubas isn't buying high either, we could get a better player than Tanev if we were. I don't particularly think that a 1st plus or even some of the 1st+2nd+prospect packages that occasionally get thrown around are "selling low" either. I do think that "Nylander or GTFO" is about as useful to the dialogue as "Tanev sux wouldn't take him for free".

 

[sting101]

Great, so he will lose him for nothing as a UFA in two years? Tanev is very good defensively and he blocks a lot of shots but he is average at moving the puck up the ice and is made of glass. The guy is absolutely no good to you guys if he is not playing. There are much better and less risky options for the Leafs to look at then a broken down Chris Tanev.

Every draft year there are about 15 players that would be considered impact players.

Chris Tanev is an impact player. It's hard for some to digest because he wasn't drafted at 18 when he was 5'10 and 155lbs and is such a late bloomer but he is.

Getting a late 1st for an impact player that is in his prime years and on a good contract is awful return. Teams still trade 1st rounders for good rentals going into a playoff. Tanev would not be a rental and furthermore plays RD which in the NHL is like getting a impact starting Left handed pitcher in baseball.

I'm trying to be diplomatic here because i am a Vancouver fan and see the value in adding futures that align with when we should be a contending team again (which is the only reason to deal him at all) but what fans of other teams desiring Tanev have to understand is what would motivate us to surrender our absolutely best by a country mile defender and transitional puck mover. And i get it ....his injuries and lack of sexy offensive numbers would completely discourage me too if i was a casual fan of the Canucks. He's not gonna help your PP and he's got a muffin shot and is fairly timid offensively. But why should we sell low on a guy that is about to help Juolevi or Hughes transition to the NHL with stability rather than a tire fire partner.

What Chris Tanev does do is almost never and i mean never get burned, He has an almost robotic like ability to block poke mirror and positionally neutralize forwards.......it's absolutely uncannny and vastly superior in quality and consistency to anyone on our defense which yes i understand we have some bad defenders. The other part of his game that needs to be mentioned is that i dont think i've ever seen a better Canuck defenseman after the strip, takeaway or even when he just goes back under pressure for a puck at turning 180 degrees and delivering a crisp tape to tape outlet pass the other way. It's done so quickly he ends entire forechecks in micro seconds which is why his advanced stats on a horrific team with bad partners bad players and defensive zone starts against top lines still has him amongst the best in the league. You really have to watch him play to appreciate it and it's why the guys that did see it with Rielly in the World Championships his teammates included have shown such a desire and appreciation of what he is as a player.

Travis Hamonic's deal was a pretty good blueprint and i'm sure the NYI never expected a 11th pick out of the deal but something closer to 13-21 and a couple mid 2nd's. A 25th pick straight accross would spell the end of Bennings tenure in Van hopefully so maybe i should want that deal. Unlike Hamonic Tanev hasn't asked to be traded and it's no secret that the team with the best player typically wins the trade which is why it has to be structured as purely futures presenting a good chance at an impact player or with a young impact player coming back for it to make sense. I mean GM's do stupid shit all the time and you can hope for that from Benning because he does it a lot but in the reality of player values any respectable fan with a brain would and should be pissed off with anything less.

 

[Thorvat]

Seems like you're trying to convince yourself more than trying to argue anything with me. It's cool if Benning isn't selling low, it's mighty obvious that Dubas isn't buying high either, we could get a better player than Tanev if we were. I don't particularly think that a 1st plus or even some of the 1st+2nd+prospect packages that occasionally get thrown around are "selling low" either. I do think that "Nylander or GTFO" is about as useful to the dialogue as "Tanev sux wouldn't take him for free".

Well if the "dialogue" continues to be leafs fans trying to say Tanev has no value. Whats the point in having a dialogue? I personally wouldn't be happy with a return of a late first plus a prospect unless the prospect is liljegren. I just don't see the point.

 

[LeafGrief]

Well if the "dialogue" continues to be leafs fans trying to say Tanev has no value. Whats the point in having a dialogue? I personally wouldn't be happy with a return of a late first plus a prospect unless the prospect is liljegren. I just don't see the point.

Well, there are plenty of Leafs fans who think Tanev has value. If you're reading RCS's posts and taking that as the "Leafs fans overwhelming opinion" then you're really just arguing with the wind. If you think that Tanev has enough value that he's going to get Nylander or Liljegren plus a first then you're asking for people to tell you why he's not worth those things.

There's plenty of good dialogue in the thread and your posts where you talk about why it makes sense to keep Tanev are constructive and add to it.

 

[CP4]

canucksarmy.com/2016/06/02/chris-tanev-praised-by-world-championship-teammates-for-gold-medal-performance/

I know this is canucks army but it still rings true. Worth a read for those who are not sold on Tanev.

 

[Thorvat]

Well, there are plenty of Leafs fans who think Tanev has value. If you're reading RCS's posts and taking that as the "Leafs fans overwhelming opinion" then you're really just arguing with the wind. If you think that Tanev has enough value that he's going to get Nylander or Liljegren plus a first then you're asking for people to tell you why he's not worth those things.

There's plenty of good dialogue in the thread and your posts where you talk about why it makes sense to keep Tanev are constructive and add to it.

Hey, everyones entitled to their own opinion.

My opinion based on statements made by Canuck management is that they aren't trading him unless they get a special offer. Although maybe fair value, Not sure a package of a late first, late second and a b prospect constitutes a special offer. I think if a good prospect like Liljegren is off the table then why would they bother. We would be extremely week on right side D if we trade Tanev.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

Every draft year there are about 15 players that would be considered impact players.

Chris Tanev is an impact player. It's hard for some to digest because he wasn't drafted at 18 when he was 5'10 and 155lbs and is such a late bloomer but he is.

Getting a late 1st for an impact player that is in his prime years and on a good contract is awful return. Teams still trade 1st rounders for good rentals going into a playoff. Tanev would not be a rental and furthermore plays RD which in the NHL is like getting a impact starting Left handed pitcher in baseball.

I'm trying to be diplomatic here because i am a Vancouver fan and see the value in adding futures that align with when we should be a contending team again (which is the only reason to deal him at all) but what fans of other teams desiring Tanev have to understand is what would motivate us to surrender our absolutely best by a country mile defender and transitional puck mover. And i get it ....his injuries and lack of sexy offensive numbers would completely discourage me too if i was a casual fan of the Canucks. He's not gonna help your PP and he's got a muffin shot and is fairly timid offensively. But why should we sell low on a guy that is about to help Juolevi or Hughes transition to the NHL with stability rather than a tire fire partner.

What Chris Tanev does do is almost never and i mean never get burned, He has an almost robotic like ability to block poke mirror and positionally neutralize forwards.......it's absolutely uncannny and vastly superior in quality and consistency to anyone on our defense which yes i understand we have some bad defenders. The other part of his game that needs to be mentioned is that i dont think i've ever seen a better Canuck defenseman after the strip, takeaway or even when he just goes back under pressure for a puck at turning 180 degrees and delivering a crisp tape to tape outlet pass the other way. It's done so quickly he ends entire forechecks in micro seconds which is why his advanced stats on a horrific team with bad partners bad players and defensive zone starts against top lines still has him amongst the best in the league. You really have to watch him play to appreciate it and it's why the guys that did see it with Rielly in the World Championships his teammates included have shown such a desire and appreciation of what he is as a player.

Travis Hamonic's deal was a pretty good blueprint and i'm sure the NYI never expected a 11th pick out of the deal but something closer to 13-21 and a couple mid 2nd's. A 25th pick straight accross would spell the end of Bennings tenure in Van hopefully so maybe i should want that deal. Unlike Hamonic Tanev hasn't asked to be traded and it's no secret that the team with the best player typically wins the trade which is why it has to be structured as purely futures presenting a good chance at an impact player or with a young impact player coming back for it to make sense. I mean GM's do stupid **** all the time and you can hope for that from Benning because he does it a lot but in the reality of player values any respectable fan with a brain would and should be pissed off with anything less.

Thanked for a well thought out post. Well done.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Who are "the Leafs"? You? Other fans?

The 1st problem here is buying into the notion that you or any other Leaf fan represent "the Leafs" and can speak on behalf of the Leafs. The 2nd problem would be accepting the idea that you or any other fan can speak accurately and definitely to what is "fair value" like there is no problem with bias, etc.

I'm wondering if this summer isn't a case of deja-vu. Its possible that if anything is done to address the blueline, it will be by adding another older vet like Hainsey.

I was speaking about all of Leaf fans who speculated on the value of Tanev. Yes, we all have different biases an example of that is being a fan. A fan by definition, is a bias towards one thing, in our case the hockey team we support. However, on this board we speculate, not only Leaf fans, but fans of all teams. It would be a lot quieter place here if only those who actually represent the teams or who actually know definitely what the fair value of a player, any player is.
Secondly, even among Leaf fans, there is a wide variety of views of what fair value is. When we include fans of the Canucks and other NHL teams that gap widens farther. The bias doesn't change though.

This is part of what makes hockey's future fun to be on. While it is true some posters have let their emotions get the better of them. Overall it is a great place to chat and argue and speculate on a players value. Your Sanctimonious post doesn't change that for me.
I think Tanev is a good player.

 

[Cotton]

I don't think I've ever seen a proposal that leafs fans said yes to. Oilers could offer McDavid for Nylander and they would still say no.

As a group no, never, do Lightning fans okay interwebs trade proposals as a group - each fan getting a vote before you make the response official?

Individually, yes, I did just a few minutes ago. But the one making the proposal has to know something about player evaluations too, otherwise you get people asking for Nylander + for Chris “Lupul” Tanev.

 

[terrible dee]

As a Canucks follower.....can, we just stop this broken record?

These Tanev threads are pointless

 

[Yamazaki]

 

[Flamesjustwin]

Not suprisingly this thread was brought back to life by leaf fans.

Give us Nylander or GTFO

Sure, when you add Pettersson to make it fair.

 

[Thorvat]

Sure, when you add Pettersson to make it fair.

But Kypreos said we are!

Leafs aren't trading Nylander

and Canucks aren't trading Tanev unless someone over pays.

Honestly would rather have Tanev in a playoff run. Nylander was invisible in the playoffs.

 

[member 157595]

Great, so he will lose him for nothing as a UFA in two years? Tanev is very good defensively and he blocks a lot of shots but he is average at moving the puck up the ice and is made of glass. The guy is absolutely no good to you guys if he is not playing.

We don't need him to be a puck mover. He'd play with Rielly, who is good at that aspect of the game. We need him for gap control and consistently solid play in his own end, and Tanev is good at that. Frequently, injured, yes...but good.

There are much better and less risky options for the Leafs to look at then a broken down Chris Tanev.

There are? Name them. Name the even potentially available defensemen that:
- are good defensively
- are right-handed
- are not rentals
- are reasonably affordable, both in monetary and asset cost
- are strong defensively and would pair well with our best defenseman (Rielly)

Like, I can't think of many.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

We'll keep our scrub, leafs can keep their elite talent

Is that fair?

 

[member 157595]

But Kypreos said we are!

Leafs aren't trading Nylander

and Canucks aren't trading Tanev unless someone over pays.

I can understand that. Benning has a lot riding on a Tanev trade.

That said, I don't know how Nylander came up in this conversation. He's not even remotely on the table for Chris freaking Tanev.

Honestly would rather have Tanev in a playoff run. Nylander was invisible in the playoffs.

So you're suggesting that it makes sense that Chris Tanev is more valuable to the Toronto Maple Leafs than William Nylander based on a 7-game playoff loss against a superior Bruins team?

Would you move Elias Pettersson for Chris Tanev?

 

[member 157595]

We'll keep our scrub, leafs can keep their elite talent

Is that fair?

For the millionth time, he's not a damn scrub. He's great. But he's definitely not worth guys like Trouba or Nylander, and if Vancouver decides to keep him I understand.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

We don't need him to be a puck mover. He'd play with Rielly, who is good at that aspect of the game. We need him for gap control and consistently solid play in his own end, and Tanev is good at that. Frequently, injured, yes...but good.



There are? Name them. Name the even potentially available defensemen that:
- are good defensively
- are right-handed
- are not rentals
- are reasonably affordable, both in monetary and asset cost
- are strong defensively and would pair well with our best defenseman (Rielly)

Like, I can't think of many.

None of that remotely matters if the guy is not in your lineup because he is constantly hurt. The Leafs are better off to spend more and get a player that actually can help them.