Proposal: Leafs / Blue Jackets

[Kelly]

Ok you can be the guy to take Kessel over McDavid.

Kessel over Bozak is a lot better comparable, stastistically speaking.

 

[mikeyp24]

So why are we giving up a young star and our top prospect yet you aren't giving up yours?

Nylander is a star now? He is a good young player sure. And I said + prospect I dont know who you would want so I just said prospect. And again the 2 players you asked for are better then Marner.

 

[mikeyp24]

Also, am I wrong, or is it just not fair for people to be taking away points from our players when they are changing teams to devalue them?

Its not to devalue them its to say points arent all that matters to us because our system isnt designed around scoring. Being 2 way is a big deal for us your point totals not so much. Marner is something we could use but not at the over pay you are askong for.

 

[mikeyp24]

Kessel over Bozak is a lot better comparable, stastistically speaking.

Not remotely. Because you are trying to add emphasis on scoring as to where Ive been talking about literally everything but scoring.

 

[Kelly]

Not remotely. Because you are trying to add emphasis on scoring as to where Ive been talking about literally everything but scoring.

Cut the system crap out -- Panarin just put up career high numbers player on the Jackets, where he spent his other two seasons playing beside Patrick Kane. CBJ were 16th league wide in scoring, this is just some made up narrative you're using to emphasize your point.

PLD effectiveness on the ice thus far, is a lot closer to Bozak than McDavid.

Just for fun:

Career ppg:
Kessel: 0.81
Marner: 0.82

PLD: 0.59
Bozak: 0.61

 

[mammothCacti]

Its not to devalue them its to say points arent all that matters to us because our system isnt designed around scoring. Being 2 way is a big deal for us your point totals not so much. Marner is something we could use but not at the over pay you are askong for.

So............

Ok then we are fundamentally built different. Jones and Werenski would struggle in our run and gun system and they definitely wouldn't be as solid defensively without Bobrovsky behind them either. Being able to get points is a big deal for us so your 2 way play isn't as important. Werenski and Jones we could use but not at the overpayment you are asking for.

Good day sir and nice doing business with you.

 

[mikeyp24]

Cut the system crap out -- Panarin just put up career high numbers player on the Jackets, where he spent his other two seasons playing beside Patrick Kane. CBJ were 14th league wide in scoring, this is just some made up narrative you're using to emphasize your point.

PLD effectiveness on the ice thus far, is a lot closer to Bozak than McDavid.

Just for fun:

Career ppg:
Kessel: 0.81
Marner: 0.82

PLD: 0.59
Bozak: 0.61

Again ppg for the jackets dont mean much... look up Karlson for us then with vegas... and our style HELPED panarin because he is a beast on defense. He was top of the league at the break for take aways. He was the best part of our defend and counter along with Atkinson Z and Jones. I honestly thought he ahould have got selke consideration because of that. Honestly go look up his takeaway stats and watch the video of hisngame with 4 or 5 assists Inforgwt how many it was but they were all ptimary and 2 of them were from take away to counter attack. Notice how he did better here then with kane and before he came here people said he couldnt defend. Panarin is the prototype for the system.

And look at PLDs number after game 20 for a more accurate depiction of his numbers seeing as he was on the 4th line and LW. Im sure if Marner was playing 3rd pair defense his numbers would be off too.

 

[mikeyp24]

So............

Ok then we are fundamentally built different. Jones and Werenski would struggle in our run and gun system and they definitely wouldn't be as solid defensively without Bobrovsky behind them either. Being able to get points is a big deal for us so your 2 way play isn't as important. Werenski and Jones we could use but not at the overpayment you are asking for.

Good day sir and nice doing business with you.

That would actually be fundamentally wrong because Jones and Z often lead the odd man rushes on our team through the counter. Both scor3d more goals then any of your D and might have combined scored more then your whole D combined all the while Z played with 1 arm fornover half a season. And McDavid was quoted saying Jones was the fastest skater in the league. Jones and Z were alson3 of the best D in the league in 3 on 3 ot. So they actually fit your team maybe more then any other 2 dmen in the league.


Awkward...

 

[mammothCacti]

Again ppg for the jackets dont mean much... look up Karlson for us then with vegas... and our style HELPED panarin because he is a beast on defense. He was top of the league at the break for take aways. He was the best part of our defend and counter along with Atkinson Z and Jones. I honestly thought he ahould have got selke consideration because of that. Honestly go look up his takeaway stats and watch the video of hisngame with 4 or 5 assists Inforgwt how many it was but they were all ptimary and 2 of them were from take away to counter attack. Notice how he did better here then with kane and before he came here people said he couldnt defend. Panarin is the prototype for the system.

And look at PLDs number after game 20 for a more accurate depiction of his numbers seeing as he was on the 4th line and LW. Im sure if Marner was playing 3rd pair defense his numbers would be off too.

That would actually be fundamentally wrong because Jones and Z often lead the odd man rushes on our team through the counter. Both scor3d more goals then any of your D and might have combined scored more then your whole D combined all the while Z played with 1 arm fornover half a season. And McDavid was quoted saying Jones was the fastest skater in the league. Jones and Z were alson3 of the best D in the league in 3 on 3 ot. So they actually fit your team maybe more then any other 2 dmen in the league.


Awkward...

From NHL.com: takeaways: Marner: 85, Panarin: 70, Nylander: 68

So that proves that Marner and Nylander can both actually play in a takeaways and counterattack 2 way system that's like yours, as your argument was heavily takeaways based for Panarin. Just like you did for Jones and Werenski where you valued goals for defensemen, I could value points Rielly: 50+ and Gardiner: 50+ for defensemen. You set the precedent, not me.


Checkmate, I win, any argument you use I can use right back.

Awkward...

 

[mikeyp24]

From NHL.com: takeaways: Marner: 85, Panarin: 70, Nylander: 68

So that proves that Marner and Nylander can both actually play in a takeaways and counterattack 2 way system that's like yours, as your argument was heavily takeaways based for Panarin. Just like you did for Jones and Werenski where you valued goals for defensemen, I could value points Rielly: 50+ and Gardiner: 50+ for defensemen. You set the precedent, not me.


Checkmate, I win, any argument you use I can use right back.

Awkward...

See I didnt use points I used goals... ouch that sucks. And out of those takeaways how many lead to a break out or score? Thats the important part not just a take away. You can take it away deep in your own corner and that means nothing but to take it away near mid ice or blue line is what we need. And both werenski and jones were top 5 in goals for a d while Z was playing half the year with 1 arm or he might have hit 25. Total points mean nothing because they count secondary assists which are a joke.

Also never again said they couldnt play here I maintained Marner COULD do excellent here but he isnt on jones level and Marner wouldnt put up the numbers here he would there. I never saw anyone try to argue against their team being better scorers and that thwir own guy is better on their team then someone else's... its bizarre. CBJ fans didnt start the theead or ask for Marner. Every fan in here not a fan of either team ageees Jones is more valuable and half the leafs fans also agree. But yet you are still trying to say Marner is better while trying to convince me that he makes us better... so do you want to trade him or not? Because while cbj fans acknowledge if a deal could be made like the ones I suggested we do it but outside of that there is no trade which cbj is more then ok with yet you fight to say you wouldnt do it all while trying to convince everyone they should do it...

 

[Death or Glory]

I think Dubas and Pridham do.

I hope so but what about improving our defense too

 

[93LEAFS]

I love the argument Marner would put up only 50-55 points with Columbus. I'm pretty sure if he got 20 minutes a game in Columbus (like Panarin), compared to the 16 and a half he gets with Toronto he would hit close to 70 points, it would just be a less efficient 70.

 

[mammothCacti]

See I didnt use points I used goals... ouch that sucks. And out of those takeaways how many lead to a break out or score? Thats the important part not just a take away. You can take it away deep in your own corner and that means nothing but to take it away near mid ice or blue line is what we need. And both werenski and jones were top 5 in goals for a d while Z was playing half the year with 1 arm or he might have hit 25. Total points mean nothing because they count secondary assists which are a joke.

Also never again said they couldnt play here I maintained Marner COULD do excellent here but he isnt on jones level and Marner wouldnt put up the numbers here he would there. I never saw anyone try to argue against their team being better scorers and that thwir own guy is better on their team then someone else's... its bizarre. CBJ fans didnt start the theead or ask for Marner. Every fan in here not a fan of either team ageees Jones is more valuable and half the leafs fans also agree. But yet you are still trying to say Marner is better while trying to convince me that he makes us better... so do you want to trade him or not? Because while cbj fans acknowledge if a deal could be made like the ones I suggested we do it but outside of that there is no trade which cbj is more then ok with yet you fight to say you wouldnt do it all while trying to convince everyone they should do it...

Holy balls, I didn't say Marner was better than Jones or more valuable then Werenski. The young stud defensemen is more valuable. Im just saying you criminally underrated Marner and WAY overrated your players, especially the secondary ones.

You try to get our star players for pieces and devalue their offense.

We kicked your butts in the standing last year fyi, sorry it just doesn't work that way anymore. I'm done here, you know think what you think, it's pointless to argue against this.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Kadri isn't a #1C and at this rate never will be. PLD looks like one right now.

Time to pop the homer glasses off...

 

[Viqsi]

No he doesn't.

You haven't watched him at all, then. Good to know.

* * *​

except for that Kadri is clearly better than PLD

He has a better track record. He's also half a decade older.

* * *​

Time to pop the homer glasses off...

You're talking to the Leafs fans dismissing PLD, right?

I know what Kadri is. He's awesome. He's a badass. He's also not a #1C. Look at the games where PLD was actually playing C and it might start to make sense.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Can I offer you 2 dollars, so that you can trade me a million? If that is your standard for a trade, that is ridiculous. The only player on your team with more trade value than Marner at the moment is Seth Jones. Werenski is debatable.

Not sure about that. Maybe we are overating our guy and underrating their good, young top 4 defender .....?

 

[93LEAFS]

You haven't watched him at all, then. Good to know.

* * *
​

I could use that exact same argument back at you if you are going to say PLD has more value than Marner. PLD is a good player and could be a number 1 center. But, he doesn't currently have more value than Mitch Marner. A guy who had 61 points at the same age as Dubois, and just put up 69 points this year. Especially to a team like the Leafs, where Dubois wouldn't even be among their current top 3 centers, and is unlikely to ever be better than our current top 2 centers.

I mean, people want to talk about how PLD played with Panarin fine. People do realize once Marner started playing with Kadri post All-Star break he played at a 92 point pace right? Now, I don't think he would have done that over the entire year, but once he started getting solid minutes (17 and a half a game), he was among the league's best point getters from that point on.

 

[4thline]

Varied pissing matches aside-

Assuming (unlikely) that Dubas was willing to move Nylander for a package build around a top 4 RHD. What's the best the Jackets are offering around Savard? @Viqsi @mikeyp24 @majormajor

 

[Viqsi]

I could use that exact same argument back at you if you are going to say PLD has more value than Marner.

What I responded to was this:

Marner is easily more valuable than PLD

I'm not claiming "more value". My objection is to the characterization that he's of considerably less value than Marner.

 

[Viqsi]

Varied pissing matches aside-

Assuming (unlikely) that Dubas was willing to move Nylander for a package build around a top 4 RHD. What's the best the Jackets are offering around Savard? @Viqsi @mikeyp24 @majormajor

That depends a whole hell of a lot on what he's willing to sign for.

 

[4thline]

That depends a whole hell of a lot on what he's willing to sign for.

Choose your own adventure, high and low salary estimates

 

[Cotton]

Kadri isn't a #1C and at this rate never will be. PLD looks like one right now.

I think this is more an artifact of never having had a real 1C.

He averaged 16:38 per game, was ass on the dot, and had over 65% offensive zone starts.

If you are starting a franchise you take PLD because of age and potential, if you are taking a C purely off of who the better player is right now no GM in the league is taking him over Kadri.

 

[Dumais]

I would not trade for Nylander, and I'm not all that high on Savard. PLD, Wennberg (with a bounce back) would make Nylander redundant. And with Savard as a center piece including one of them or Jenner would be overpaying with a position we are weak at for more of the same.

 

[Viqsi]

I think this is more an artifact of never having had a real 1C.

This is like claiming that Toronto has never had a #1D in the cap era - it's an outrageous lie believed only by the naive at best.

 

[thebus88]

The CBJ will keep its top d man, Jones (a top-5 defenseman in the league) and its LEGIT TOP LINE center in Dubois (a recent LEGIT top-3 pick).

I wish all of the Maple Leaves fans luck in their Yahoo fantasy hockey leagues this upcoming year, although I'm sure they wont need it as all those points the Leaves players put up will surely lead you guys to "glory".