Proposal: Leafs / Blue Jackets

[mammothCacti]

With you I think they both MINIMUM hit 65 points and thats if they have injury issues or 1 of the other 2 Cs get hurt. They are 50-55 with the jackets. 2 comoletely different systems and our Cs are not JT or Mathews (who again I would draft Mathews over McDavid im a huge fan of his.) We are a defensive team first and then counter attack. A big reason I thought panarin should have gotten selke attention. The amount ofntake aways he had added to the amount of points scored because of his plays like that whether a pass or shot it was rediculous.

Marner's main linemmates last year: Bozak, JVR. Points: 69.

Marner's points with Matthews last year: 2 points. 1st year: 1 point.

To understand our offense and where it comes from is to understand Babcock's philosophy: he SPECIFICALLY puts Matthews and Marner on different lines cause they create offense with anyone they play with.

You don't understand. Marner being on you team will elevate the others numbers. Kadri out goal scored your entire team, and alot of those came on the powerplay with Marner being the key pointman that's dishing the pass.

The value of Marner being on the team is that he changes the entire dynamic of a line and powerplay setup. Hes not brought down by a system, he creates the system.

And that's why he's so valuable.

 

[Viqsi]

Marner is easily more valuable than PLD

This is where I stopped reading.

Center. Winger. Learn the difference.

 

[Kelly]

This is where I stopped reading.

Center. Winger. Learn the difference.

Kadri more valuable than Panarin?

Only player I trade Marner for on the jackets is Jones, Marner is getting severely underrated here.

 

[Morbo]

The only player we have ever had that has been able to score regardless is Panarin. I have faith he could be a 50-55pt player here but Werenski can hit that number. If you said Nutivaara for Marner or Nylander sure. Id add on what was needed with say an abramov and a pick or something. But the 2 russians, Jones, Werenski, and PLD are untouchable unless huge upgrade.

is this serious...?

 

[93LEAFS]

This is where I stopped reading.

Center. Winger. Learn the difference.

I think I know the difference. Marner is more valuable. Or, are you going to tell me Patrick Kane and Panarin aren't valuable players?

Marner's 19-year-old production is significantly better than PLD's, and to an extent, a production difference is bigger than the positional value difference.

 

[Viqsi]

Kadri more valuable than Panarin?

Kadri isn't a #1C and at this rate never will be. PLD looks like one right now.

 

[mammothCacti]

I think I know the difference. Marner is more valuable. Or, are you going to tell me Patrick Kane and Panarin aren't valuable players?

Marner's 19-year-old production is significantly better than PLD's, and to an extent, a production difference is bigger than the positional value difference.

Player 1: Centerman, 2 30+ goal seasons, 27 years old on a 4.5 million dollar contract, plays a sounds shutdown role.

Player 2: Winger, 3 30+ goal seasons, 29 years old on a 10 million dollar contract, main offense driver.

Player 3: Winger, 2 30+ goal seasons, 26 years old on 6 million dollar contract, main offense driver.

Player 4: Centerman, 2 30+ goals seasons, 30 years old on 10 million dollar contract, plays shutdown role.

Who's the most valuable? Player 1 right?
Guess Kadri>Kane, Panarin, Toews.

Damn we should have 3 cups...

 

[93LEAFS]

Kadri isn't a #1C and at this rate never will be. PLD looks like one right now.

No he doesn't. He's a 2nd liner at best. Maybe he takes that next step forward into a legitimate number #1 center, but also realize, he wouldn't even be a center on the Leafs, and at best would be our 3rd best one.

 

[mikeyp24]

Marner's main linemmates last year: Bozak, JVR. Points: 69.

Marner's points with Matthews last year: 2 points. 1st year: 1 point.

To understand our offense and where it comes from is to understand Babcock's philosophy: he SPECIFICALLY puts Matthews and Marner on different lines cause they create offense with anyone they play with.

You don't understand. Marner being on you team will elevate the others numbers. Kadri out goal scored your entire team, and alot of those came on the powerplay with Marner being the key pointman that's dishing the pass.

The value of Marner being on the team is that he changes the entire dynamic of a line and powerplay setup. Hes not brought down by a system, he creates the system.

And that's why he's so valuable.

Yeah the thing is again our PP is terrible unless they ditch Larson or give someone else that job. It was like 30% and top of the league for a huge time that even after we cooled off we were still 1st 2 years ago and they never changed it after teams picked up on it. We have guys who historically are normally good there but because the system is bad it never works and if you dont run it you will get sat.

I honestly understand he is a great talent but I take Panarin over him any day of the week and he can take on 5 skaters and then 1 could go around get back in the play a.d he would get past him a 2nd time and score beating 6 men and a goalie but even with him and Jones a top 5-7 PPQB in the league couldnt make it work. There are very few people in the league I would argue could keep up high point totals while being on this team because our system. And I love our system I am not bashing the 5v5. Im ok with my team winning 2-1 games I love defense. Marner would be an amazing add just not at the asking price.

Again all for say Bjorkstrand/Anderson+ 1st+ Carlson or other proaoects + Savard. Thats a U25 goal scoring winger in the league, a 1st, a young prospect of your choice minus maybe 1 or 2 guys and then a 2/3 RHD. Thats not a 4 quarters for a $1 either thats like a loony being changed into American money and then 1 coin to even it haha

 

[34]

Leafs are good, thanks.

Yeah, No way from T.O

 

[mikeyp24]

is this serious...?

I didnt put out a full offer I was spit balling names and putting it out there. I posted 1 in here or another thread saying something around Bjorkstand/Anderson+ 1st+ Savard+ basically any prospect minus 1 or 2.

 

[93LEAFS]

Yeah the thing is again our PP is terrible unless they ditch Larson or give someone else that job. It was like 30% and top of the league for a huge time that even after we cooled off we were still 1st 2 years ago and they never changed it after teams picked up on it. We have guys who historically are normally good there but because the system is bad it never works and if you dont run it you will get sat.

I honestly understand he is a great talent but I take Panarin over him any day of the week and he can take on 5 skaters and then 1 could go around get back in the play a.d he would get past him a 2nd time and score beating 6 men and a goalie but even with him and Jones a top 5-7 PPQB in the league couldnt make it work. There are very few people in the league I would argue could keep up high point totals while being on this team because our system. And I love our system I am not bashing the 5v5. Im ok with my team winning 2-1 games I love defense. Marner would be an amazing add just not at the asking price.

Again all for say Bjorkstrand/Anderson+ 1st+ Carlson or other proaoects + Savard. Thats a U25 goal scoring winger in the league, a 1st, a young prospect of your choice minus maybe 1 or 2 guys and then a 2/3 RHD. Thats not a 4 quarters for a $1 either thats like a loony being changed into American money and then 1 coin to even it haha

So, how about Gardiner, Liljegren and next years 1st for Seth Jones? Because, those are basically the deals you keep on putting on the table for Marner.

 

[mammothCacti]

Kadri isn't a #1C and at this rate never will be. PLD looks like one right now.

Kadri outscored all your centers and would have the most goals on your team in the last two seasons...

PLD might look like a 1C, Kadri produces like one.

Also you might argue that Kadri would never score those playing on your team... Yet he did with some time with Marner this year. If Panarin is the better player than Marner, Kadri would have no problem with him.

Our defense, agreed needs work. Don't try our offense.

 

[mikeyp24]

I think I know the difference. Marner is more valuable. Or, are you going to tell me Patrick Kane and Panarin aren't valuable players?

Marner's 19-year-old production is significantly better than PLD's, and to an extent, a production difference is bigger than the positional value difference.

He played 4th line wing for around 20ish games and 0 pp time. It wasnt until about game 20 he had hisnforst real shot. Then factor in the system where we play defense and counter meaning we tey amd score off of their mostakes and focus on playing defense at all times. So as a rookie who for only 3/4 to put up his totals while breaking all our rookie scoring records and playing a more important position Id agree PLD is higher value. Thwn look at his boars play where he 95% of the time wins the battle and has a great FO%. You are severely underrating PLD.

 

[mammothCacti]

I didnt put out a full offer I was spit balling names and putting it out there. I posted 1 in here or another thread saying something around Bjorkstand/Anderson+ 1st+ Savard+ basically any prospect minus 1 or 2.

Okay, so: Hyman/Brown + 1st + Gardiner/Zaitsev + any prospect we have for Werenski?

 

[93LEAFS]

He played 4th line wing for around 20ish games and 0 pp time. It wasnt until about game 20 he had hisnforst real shot. Then factor in the system where we play defense and counter meaning we tey amd score off of their mostakes and focus on playing defense at all times. So as a rookie who for only 3/4 to put up his totals while breaking all our rookie scoring records and playing a more important position Id agree PLD is higher value. Thwn look at his boars play where he 95% of the time wins the battle and has a great FO%. You are severely underrating PLD.

He also played with a star player during that time frame. He spent 56% of his time with Panarin at 5v5.

I also think you are overstating how defensively they played. You are acting like they are trapping to the levels of the 95 Devils.

Very few people would take PLD over Marner, unless they are absolutely desperate for a center.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Kadri isn't a #1C and at this rate never will be. PLD looks like one right now.

except for that Kadri is clearly better than PLD

 

[mikeyp24]

So, how about Gardiner, Liljegren and next years 1st for Seth Jones? Because, those are basically the deals you keep on putting on the table for Marner.

Not really because Jones is out of Marners league. Jones is just about what Mathews is. Either barely under or equal. Marner is closer to Z only again juuuust under. Gardiner isnt a #2 like savard has been previously and Savard is shut down so conparing points will prove nothing there. Your proapect is greag makes sense. The first makes sense. So we would need a young roster guy like I said Anderson of Bjorkstand so that would be Nylander. So Nylander, Lily, and a first while I wouldnt take it is at least fair.

 

[mikeyp24]

Kadri outscored all your centers and would have the most goals on your team in the last two seasons...

PLD might look like a 1C, Kadri produces like one.

Also you might argue that Kadri would never score those playing on your team... Yet he did with some time with Marner this year. If Panarin is the better player than Marner, Kadri would have no problem with him.

Our defense, agreed needs work. Don't try our offense.

He puts up Jenner numbers at best here. 20 and 20 likely. Again we score as a team and play defense forst then capitalize on mistakes for counter offense. Arguing scoring is never a good arguement against us because our system. But you take guys off our team and put them insystems like yours or vegas... look out. Wild bill for us at one point wemt 40 games without a goal and scored 40 this year. Goes to show you what talent we have here. But we play as a unit not as a solo for youself team. And thats why we have been so great for 2 years just sucks we ran into the champs back to back years.

 

[mikeyp24]

Okay, so: Hyman/Brown + 1st + Gardiner/Zaitsev + any prospect we have for Werenski?

It would likely be Nylander+Lily no pick needed. Again wouldnt do it but its fair.

 

[mikeyp24]

He also played with a star player during that time frame. He spent 56% of his time with Panarin at 5v5.

I also think you are overstating how defensively they played. You are acting like they are trapping to the levels of the 95 Devils.

Very few people would take PLD over Marner, unless they are absolutely desperate for a center.

Say you are starting a team from scratch amd you have to pick one or the other and you are playing for Torts you Take PLD 100 out of 100.

 

[Kelly]

Say you are starting a team from scratch amd you have to pick one or the other and you are playing for Torts you Take PLD 100 out of 100.

I take the better forward, Mitch Marner.

 

[mammothCacti]

It would likely be Nylander+Lily no pick needed. Again wouldnt do it but its fair.

So why are we giving up a young star and our top prospect yet you aren't giving up yours?

 

[mammothCacti]

He puts up Jenner numbers at best here. 20 and 20 likely. Again we score as a team and play defense forst then capitalize on mistakes for counter offense. Arguing scoring is never a good arguement against us because our system. But you take guys off our team and put them insystems like yours or vegas... look out. Wild bill for us at one point wemt 40 games without a goal and scored 40 this year. Goes to show you what talent we have here. But we play as a unit not as a solo for youself team. And thats why we have been so great for 2 years just sucks we ran into the champs back to back years.

Also, am I wrong, or is it just not fair for people to be taking away points from our players when they are changing teams to devalue them?

 

[mikeyp24]

I take the better forward, Mitch Marner.

Ok you can be the guy to take Kessel over McDavid.