Leafs biggest issue... Fan expectations set by the team

[rent free]

This team is very similar to 2013. Shit defence, good goalie, good offence, gonna lose to the bruins in the first round.

 

[Menzinger]

We were just saying 22 is the new prime. It's why we pay Eichel 10m a year. Now because it's gone the other way they are just kids still and how about all the vet insulation? Didn't you say that matters? The best players are no shows. 0 to 20 vs Bergeron man. In 2 games.

Again, we’re talking about 2 games here....

Nylander is the eldest and he’s still only 21. As sophomores they’re still adjusting to how things are in the NHL especially in the post season.

That doesn’t mean we have to be totally happy with how they’ve performed but we also shouldn’t overreact to it either.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

The realists aren't upset. No one expected the Leafs to be this bad, but anyone calling this team contenders is too emotionally involved. And that's the problem. Homers get emotionally attached to the team and end up with unrealistic expectations

The realist wanted to trade our rentals at the deadline but were called losers saying we want to take forever and turn into Edmonton.

All I know is I see our top goal scorer walking at the end of the season and one of the worst defenses in the playoffs. We would have made the playoffs had we traded JVR, Bozak, and Komarov. And even if we still get trounced by Boston like we are now, atleast we could use those pieces from our trades (a 1st and a prospect from JVR minimum) to help shore up the blueline for next season.

I said it before fans are too impatient and just want to get that quick sugar rush from a "playoff run". I didn't think it was a good idea, but I didn't even see this trouncing coming. Still hoping for the best obviously, but I would be lying if I said I liked the direction the team went in at the deadline.

 

[MapleLeafistan]

Y'all need to relax...Babs said pain was coming. Fortunate enough to have bypassed the regular season pain.

Playoff pain was inevitable.

Breath easy.

 

[diceman934]

Nylander has played about the same as Matthews and I highly doubt these first two games are going to be a major factor in any contract negotiation (for either player).

The young guys have played in only 8 NHL playoff games, but early to say they have bad habits here, no? Post season play takes a period of adjustment to get used to.

Nylander is non existent in any physical game...it is going to make a huge difference in his contract negotiations as I believe they are not going to offer any long term deal unless it under his current comparable values. He has been found wanting...that is a issue.

Post season play takes heart and willingness and it is not a teachable skill.

 

[Menzinger]

Nylander is non existent in any physical game...it is going to make a huge difference in his contract negotiations as I believe they are not going to offer any long term deal unless it under his current comparable values. He has been found wanting...that is a issue.

Post season play takes heart and willingness and it is not a teachable skill.

With just 8 games played how can we say we understand how these guys will fair for the rest of their career in these situations? Not to mention Nylander played well against Washington in the post season.

It just seems we’re letting these last two games have a disproportionate influence on how we’re viewing these guys. It’s understandable in a way because there the freshest in our memories but that also doesn’t mean they should be the biggest factors.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Again, we’re talking about 2 games here....

Nylander is the eldest and he’s still only 21. As sophomores they’re still adjusting to how things are in the NHL especially in the post season.

That doesn’t mean we have to be totally happy with how they’ve performed but we also shouldn’t overreact to it either.

true.
but Boston's youngin's aren't really shrinking violets right now. and i think that's the rub.
however i expect things will end up just fine.

 

[djdev]

while i 100% agree with the premise, maybe we should wait until we actually lose before we make this thread? our story hasnt even been written yet. who knows what can happen

 

[Menzinger]

true.
but Boston's youngin's aren't really shrinking violets right now. and i think that's the rub.
however i expect things will end up just fine.

Agreed, it is noticeable.

Though, a difference is a guy like Pasta can look to the main guys on the team like Bergeron/Marchand for support (on their first line) while Matthews/Nylander can turn to Komarov who barely has more NHL postseason experience than they do.

I think the younger guys will likely still be fine this series after going through this trial by fire (I don’t think they’ve been quite as poorly as some folks around here think, especially last game) but they’ve got to get past the shock of the first couple games.

 

[diceman934]

I find your first sentence interesting. We can't judge Marleau based on his "teams" failure (that he was captain of). And we can't judge the leafs "team" based on our players failures.
So we can't judge anything. I guess the leafs are the "best", regardless of facts, stats, and observations.

And Marleau HAS been invisible so far.

I mean, having a vet to mentor our youngsters is a good idea. But choosing a guy with a legacy of underperforming in the playoffs is questionable.

My I suggest glasses if you thought that Marleau has ever been invisible in any playoff series but sure as hell Nylander has been. My I also suggest you read my posts our teams disappointing play is on the players who have failed to show up. Not our coach unless you are the believe that you can teach bravery.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Lol Blame Babcock for what? He had them ready to go but you can not make them grow a set. People who wanted Johnnson in saw last night that he is the softest player by a lot. He attempted severally stick checks, Nylander has been missing in action same as Mathews except for 3rd period last night.

What a joke

A joke indeed. I'll let you know what I blame him for specifically:

- surely even his most loyal supporter must see his team came out unprepared in both games.

- playing komarov over (whomever you choose to name).

- not challenging the offside on Boston's first goal in game 1.

- not challenging goalie interference in game 1 on Boston's 4th goal.

- playing komarov on the second pp unit.

- starting komarov in the starting lineup in game 2.

- not pulling Andersen immediately when he picked up where he left off in game two with the first softie.

I stopped watching shortly thereafter but I assume there were other horrible mistakes. Basically, he's been way too slow to react. On everything.

 

[francis246]

This team is very similar to 2013. **** defence, good goalie, good offence, gonna lose to the bruins in the first round.

reimer at least gave us a chance to win that series

 

[rent free]

reimer at least gave us a chance to win that series

yup. thats the only difference

 

[Throw More Waffles]

My I suggest glasses if you thought that Marleau has ever been invisible in any playoff series but sure as hell Nylander has been. My I also suggest you read my posts our teams disappointing play is on the players who have failed to show up. Not our coach unless you are the believe that you can teach bravery.

Marleau is pointless, has 3 shots and is tied for lowest +/- on the team. You’re right. He’s been spectacular so far.

I agree that it’s not all on Babcock. I’m not a hater of his. But all those line changing mix ups and too men penalties are mostly on Babcock, no?

The entire team has been a disgrace. From the coach, to the young stars, to the vets, to the special teams, to the starting goalie, all the way to the backup. A top to bottom gong show. A meltdown the likes of which is borderline unprecedented.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Again, we’re talking about 2 games here....

Nylander is the eldest and he’s still only 21. As sophomores they’re still adjusting to how things are in the NHL especially in the post season.

That doesn’t mean we have to be totally happy with how they’ve performed but we also shouldn’t overreact to it either.

So Pastrnak is still a young 21 year old still adjusting to the post season. And he has 9 points in two games. Imagine once he learns to “adjust” to the playoffs?

I’m just sick of this shit.

Last year when our kids were doing well against the Caps, it was “it’s a young mans sport today.” Then when they shut the f***ing bed it’s “hey, they’re only 20”. You can’t have it both f***ing ways.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sorry Gary Babcock has not coach them to be afraid and that has been the biggest difference fear. Gutless play is on the players and not the coach. Far to many have been on Babcock for playing Hyman with Mathews and Nylander yet Hyman was the only one of the 3 to show up! Babs got ripped for starting Komo over Johnnson when he was the softest player on the ice by a wide margin he turn away from the puck several times skated to middle ice when he was to be on the boards and only attempted a few stick checks.

It is easy to blame the coach but it is usually that people do not want to admit that we have players lacking in a key area and it is not a coach able area. Either you are willing to play to win or you are not hopefully we play with some pride at home and we might just be able to get back in this series with last change. I look to see Martin dressed as even Levio with Johnnson back in the press box where he belongs.

I've been defending his line-up decisions all year. I'm just saying that we played so poorly, there's enough blame to go around and some falls on the coach. Mostly it's on the players but I don't see how Babcock escapes with zero blame either.

OK you expect to see Martin and Leivo next game. But what if they don't play, will you then be criticizing his line-up decisions?

There's also another question - if the team if gutless as you say and Martin should be playing, shouldn't the coach know this and play Martin in game 1? Or why wasn't Martin in the lineup in game 2? If you think that he should have been in instead of Johnsson then maybe you should be criticizing him for that, maybe just a little bit?

 

[Menzinger]

So Pastrnak is still a young 21 year old still adjusting to the post season. And he has 9 points in two games. Imagine once he learns to “adjust” to the playoffs?

I’m just sick of this ****.

Last year when our kids were doing well against the Caps, it was “it’s a young mans sport today.” Then when they shut the ****ing bed it’s “hey, they’re only 20”. You can’t have it both ****ing ways.

Pasta plays alongside Bergeron and Marchand, two playoff warriors who help shelter his role on the line. He’s playing well, but he’s not exactly doing the heavy lifting on his own.

I’m not saying you necessarily have to be happy with how the Leafs young guys have faired so far, but getting this upset at sophomores seems unnecessary. Especially just two games into the series.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Pasta plays alongside Bergeron and Marchand, two playoff warriors who help shelter his role on the line. He’s playing well, but he’s not exactly doing the heavy lifting on his own.

I’m not saying you necessarily have to be happy with how the Leafs young guys have faired so far, but getting this upset at sophomores seems unnecessary. Especially just two games into the series.

Laine seems to be doing pretty wel...

The consensus from everyone in the nhl (including leaf fans before 4 days ago) is that the nhl is now a young mans league.

Of course, now that JUST our young guys are playing like idiots (unlike all the other teams young guys), it’s all “can’t blame the young guys”. It’s a f***ing joke.

 

[Menzinger]

Laine seems to be doing pretty wel...

The consensus from everyone in the nhl (including leaf fans before 4 days ago) is that the nhl is now a young mans league.

Of course, now that JUST our young guys are playing like idiots (unlike all the other teams young guys), it’s all “can’t blame the young guys”. It’s a ****ing joke.

And Laine is playing against a team that barely made the playoffs and is missing their #1 D man in Suter and isn’t lining up against guys like Bergeron.

Id agree that it’s a “young mans league now”, but the wider the point is 2 games into a series isn’t enough time to throw the blame on the Leafs younger guys now. Not to mention, Matthews/Nylander/Marner collectively looked much better in game 2, especially at even strength (though admittedly things looked rough during the first game).

If the Leafs can avoid giving up 4bgoals on like 6bshits next game I think things will be fine.

 

[SavedByRoy]

I think a few of you need to "ease up on the Pejorative Slur throttle", to quote Tropic Thunder.

The hot take current culture is in full effect here: the whole rebuild was a failure due to 2 games, not trading JVR or any other summer UFAs for picks was the stupidest move in GM history, etc.

Do you guys remember when MA Fleury got absolutely wrecked by Philly in the first round a few years ago (2012) with several pulls and a .83 save percentage for the series? Everyone was calling him Goals Against Fleury and thought he was the worst playoff performer ever.

Where is he lately, and how has he played in the playoffs other years? Yeah, very good.

Bad two games. If they lose the series, it's a bump in the road, not the sign to dump everyone and start all over with nothing. But the Leafs could even come back in this series. They are playing terribly, but Boston has had all the puck luck and breaks.

Nothing changes the fact that the Leafs are a good young team with a lot of bright years in the near future.

 

[666]

The realist wanted to trade our rentals at the deadline but were called losers saying we want to take forever and turn into Edmonton.

All I know is I see our top goal scorer walking at the end of the season and one of the worst defenses in the playoffs. We would have made the playoffs had we traded JVR, Bozak, and Komarov. And even if we still get trounced by Boston like we are now, atleast we could use those pieces from our trades (a 1st and a prospect from JVR minimum) to help shore up the blueline for next season.

I said it before fans are too impatient and just want to get that quick sugar rush from a "playoff run". I didn't think it was a good idea, but I didn't even see this trouncing coming. Still hoping for the best obviously, but I would be lying if I said I liked the direction the team went in at the deadline.

I appreciate the idea of selling UFA's at the deadline but it's only realistic if the ONLY objective is a cup. This is a business and while the long term gains are obvious dumping UFA's, it's certainly not in the businesses interests short term.

 

[Tak7]

A joke indeed. I'll let you know what I blame him for specifically:

- surely even his most loyal supporter must see his team came out unprepared in both games.

- playing komarov over (whomever you choose to name).

- not challenging the offside on Boston's first goal in game 1.

- not challenging goalie interference in game 1 on Boston's 4th goal.

- playing komarov on the second pp unit.

- starting komarov in the starting lineup in game 2.

- not pulling Andersen immediately when he picked up where he left off in game two with the first softie.

I stopped watching shortly thereafter but I assume there were other horrible mistakes. Basically, he's been way too slow to react. On everything.

This team has a horrible habit of not starting on time.

If you look at many of their losses this season, it's because they get down early and can't recover.

For a hyper-critical market like Toronto, I'm genuinely surprised that more hasn't been made of Babcock's failure to get his team ready to play on a number of nights.

 

[Fogelhund]

I swear, the degree to which Leafs Nation can be completely bi-polar in any swing of two games is mind numbing, to the point of my IQ dropping reading some of this stuff.

The tag line of this thread is of course correct. Expectations were too much, of a team that overall is very young, and not yet complete. We've got some great youth on the offensive side, a good goalie, and a few good defensive pieces. But our Defense is not ready to be contenders in the playoffs, and maybe even some of our forwards won't be playoff guys. But mostly, we need patience, maturity as a team, and to add to our defense. The right side D is still weak, that was known going into the season, was obvious at times during the season, and continues to be obvious. Our priority has to be, continuing to built, with focus on the Right side of our D. Patience people, and maybe some Xanax.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If the expectations were not to win a cup or at least make a serious run at it, then we wouldn't have any UFA's left on our roster. Especially given they wouldn't be the reason we get that far in the first place.

It's clear that this team was a long shot to win the cup essentially since Tampa and Boston took over the division. But as soon as they decided to keep those own rentals and bring in Plekanec, management was giving a clear indication that a first round loss, especially one that is bad, is absolutely unacceptable. They wanted to see progress, but it seems like all they got was regression so far (at least in terms of playoff performance, which as nice as it is to put up 100+ points in the regular season and set a record there, is the important part).

And everyone around the team deserves some shade of doubt and ridicule, if not from fans/media, then from themselves. Because then this becomes the norm and we are essentially the Sharks of the 2000's, or the Caps of the 2010's.

 

[moon111]

Mitch Marner, Auston Matthews, and William Nylander combined for 193 points.
Granted, it was the `80s, but still, Wayne Gretzky had 196 points alone in `82-83.
And so what? Not only did the Islanders beat them in the playoffs, they swept them.
The fans AND the players get a taste of success from being offensive players.
They mumble and grumble about checking, defense, playing your player hard,
etc. Who needs it? See we win better without it!!! Offense you stupid coach!
Everyone fails. The Leafs are failing. Winners will learn from it, losers won't.
Perhaps after all of this, it won't just be Babcock 'forcing his ways' on the team.
Players will want to cover their point instead of just waiting for an outlet pass.
They'll tie up their man in front of the net instead of stand there puck watching.
You can study the history to avoid repeating it. Unfortunately the Leafs and many
of the fans have to learn the hard way.