Leafs biggest issue... Fan expectations set by the team

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by Pookie, Apr 15, 2018.

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  1. diceman934

    diceman934 Help is on the way.

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    Sorry Gary Babcock has not coach them to be afraid and that has been the biggest difference fear. Gutless play is on the players and not the coach. Far to many have been on Babcock for playing Hyman with Mathews and Nylander yet Hyman was the only one of the 3 to show up! Babs got ripped for starting Komo over Johnnson when he was the softest player on the ice by a wide margin he turn away from the puck several times skated to middle ice when he was to be on the boards and only attempted a few stick checks.

    It is easy to blame the coach but it is usually that people do not want to admit that we have players lacking in a key area and it is not a coach able area. Either you are willing to play to win or you are not hopefully we play with some pride at home and we might just be able to get back in this series with last change. I look to see Martin dressed as even Levio with Johnnson back in the press box where he belongs.
     
  2. Throw More Waffles

    Throw More Waffles Registered User

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    I thought similarly last week. Even if we get swept by the Bruins, we still have a very young talented core who will continue to grow. I didn't think we were quite there yet, and that we'd likely lose to Boston.

    What I didn't expect in a million years... in a MILLION years... was for our young core to turn into these gutless, heartless, cowardly, spineless utter disgraces.

    So now I'm conflicted. In just two games, I've turned from the happiest I've ever been as a leaf fan, to outright questioning the character of our young core and wondering if the rebuild was a failure.

    Last year (when we were playing the ****ing Presidents Trophy winner and we had 7 rookies in key roles), I would have forgiven such a performance. But a regression this big in year two? Unacceptable.

    As I said in another thread... The Sharks 10 years ago were an example of a team that had elite talent that performed well in the regular season, but disappeared in the playoffs. I'm not saying (yet) that's what Matthews and Nylander are. I'm just saying that many of us are getting that first inkling of worry that these guys just weren't meant for the playoffs.

    Unreasonable optimism from fans like you will not change what they really are. But I guess we'll have to wait and see. If Matthews and Co. remain so pathetically invisible in the next two games, we're going to have to accept we probably have a Sharks situation and the rebuild was a failure.

    But hopefully that's not what happens.
     
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  3. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    There’s no “blame” going on. The Leafs might just not be ready to be a contender and Marleau doesn’t have the track record.
     
  4. diceman934

    diceman934 Help is on the way.

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    Marleau was not the Sharks so his teams record is not his. He also has been among a small few who have competed so blaming him is funny.

    Blame is shared among many starting with the disappearing Nylander, he has not been competitive at all. Mathews payed the same way for 5 periods but did play more physical in the 3rd. Players are to blame as they have failed to show that they are willing to pay the price to win.

    It is frustrating to watch a few players pull the chute when going for the puck to avoid a check at all cost and then people still blaming the coach for this. Then these same people blame him for not dressing softer players. Johnnson should not dress another game in this series he is among the softest player in the league and I would bet management thinks the same thing and will package him up to get a hockey player, it is a shame as he has skill and can skate but is as soft as anyone I have ever seen play. Boo is all that it takes and he skated away to avoid a hit.
     
  5. Throw More Waffles

    Throw More Waffles Registered User

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    I find your first sentence interesting. We can't judge Marleau based on his "teams" failure (that he was captain of). And we can't judge the leafs "team" based on our players failures.
    So we can't judge anything. I guess the leafs are the "best", regardless of facts, stats, and observations.

    And Marleau HAS been invisible so far.

    I mean, having a vet to mentor our youngsters is a good idea. But choosing a guy with a legacy of underperforming in the playoffs is questionable.
     
  6. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    The issue I see with the Leafs is they seem like a collection of individuals who are not clicking as a cohesive unit. Contrast that with Boston. Their guys seem to all be playing at a certain uniformity in effort, pace, physicality, driving to the net and back checking. We all talk about the veteran Bruins but they have at least 9 guys in their early 20s who are all excelling in their roles. Leaf players are all doing their own random things as individuals.
     
  7. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    I don’t know why Leaf fans need to come defend Marleau’s playoff history. What Diceman said about Marleau is what every Sharks apologist said about Marleau and Thornton every spring for a decade and a half.

    He does his thing, does his part, yet his team goes nowhere.
     
  8. KeonHorton

    KeonHorton Registered User

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    There a few folks around here that will chastise anyone suggesting that we tanked.
     
  9. KeonHorton

    KeonHorton Registered User

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    I have been thinking about this same point. Looks like other teams have been drafting and developing well. This is by no means the exclusive domain of the Leafs.
     
  10. Krazy

    Krazy Registered User

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    But that’s the point. They have Guys excelling in secondary roles. Behind hungry vet leaders who have been through the ups and downs before. That’s a totally different ballgame than what we have. We have tried to insulate with leaders in secondary roles ultimately our guys need their reps. That’s it.
     
  11. KeonHorton

    KeonHorton Registered User

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    Boston has 10 players on their roster that are 25 years of age or younger. I think we make too much of the idea that other teams don't have young players and a (sizable) number of good young prospects in their system. About the only way that this could actually occur is for the other teams to stop drafting for a few years. I think we are being a little willfully naive when it comes to this.
     
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  12. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    I think it also underscores the fact that we can’t make those Boyle and Plekanec type deals any more. If anything save them for a big addition or just use the picks. Those 2 extra seconds could be 2x more Travis Dermott’s or Sebastian Aho’s. We can’t bleed assets out and take away from the youth movement which needs to be constant.
     
  13. The Big D

    The Big D Registered User

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    Or posters who continually rag on the only core guy who plays that playoff kinda game
     
  14. Prince N

    Prince N Registered User

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    Yup..and have his shadow and get the in the face one of the big 3. Hit them, face wash them, bergeron kiss them. That will flip the script
     
  15. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    That's a bit harsh based on two bad games on the road, but they are coming across a bit like the young Quebec Nordiques back in 1993.
     
  16. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    Yep. I will “rag on” those who play that kind of game.

    Marchand. Ulf Samuelson. Claude Lemieux. All of them.

    I’ve got a Brad Smith jersey.... assuming you know who he is.... you think I am against the tough stuff?

    No sir. I’m against the cheap shot artists.
     
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  17. HellasLEAF

    HellasLEAF Auston 20:16

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    I'm sorry but I cannot take you seriously with an opening statement like that. I did not read the rest of your comment.
     
  18. HellasLEAF

    HellasLEAF Auston 20:16

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    Agreed!
     
  19. frog

    frog Registered User

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    I remember when Gretzky, Messier, Coffey and Kurri carried the team only to get swept by the islanders...Yeah they won the cup the next year, so please chill the **** out. If Gretzky and the 80s oilers can get swept in their early 20s so can marner, nylander and mathews. This isnt some shameful, embarrassing act of cowardice. Its called learning how to win in the playoffs
     
  20. Menzinger

    Menzinger Registered User

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    Nylander has played about the same as Matthews and I highly doubt these first two games are going to be a major factor in any contract negotiation (for either player).

    The young guys have played in only 8 NHL playoff games, but early to say they have bad habits here, no? Post season play takes a period of adjustment to get used to.
     
  21. thewave

    thewave Your safe space is 1 click away cowards!

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    These PO will play a big factor in monies. How could they not, we needed them to show up. We trusted them. They both have done nothing.
     
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  22. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    That was in the finals against one of the all time great teams in hockey, not no showing the first two games in April before anyone's even grown a playoff 5 o'clock shadow.
     
  23. Menzinger

    Menzinger Registered User

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    Theyre also just sophomores under the age of 22.

    If these were a bunch of guys in the middle of their primes it would be one thing, but it’s not the case.
     
  24. thewave

    thewave Your safe space is 1 click away cowards!

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    We were just saying 22 is the new prime. It's why we pay Eichel 10m a year. Now because it's gone the other way they are just kids still and how about all the vet insulation? Didn't you say that matters? The best players are no shows. 0 to 20 vs Bergeron man. In 2 games.
     
  25. Buds17

    Buds17 Registered User

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    Definitely. I just mean that they are also down 2-0. Their games and scores have been more competitive, yet they still were on the losing end for both games. The Avs, Leafs (and Devils, Ducks, Wild and Kings) have to win four straight or four of the next five.
     
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