Leafs biggest issue... Fan expectations set by the team

Throw More Waffles

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I think until the series is over, that's the time where you can draw conclusions and evaluations. People are just venting and overreacting at this very moment. This fanbase is very good at reacting to the moment.

I'm interested to see how they act on home ice, that might be their final test for the season and they got to show what they can do.
You think people are "overreacting" to those first two games? Really? Did you watch them?
 

Buds17

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Yeah it's definitely not over yet. It doesn't look good but ... it is not over. So many people seem to want autopsy results already, I'd rather wait until it's actually over and see is we did in fact lose first.

Can't see all of those series ending in sweeps, so something has to give there.

In two more games, we're either eliminated, on the brink with no losses left to spare, or it's a brand new series. Close or lopsided losses don't offer much difference, it's still a 2-0 deficit. Have to have a short memory about the games that have been played and focus on the ones coming up.
 
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diceman934

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The Sharks and Capitals are good examples of the wrong core mix that can't handle the playoffs, and you're right, you don't want to waste 15 years going into battle with a couple of duds. But two games on the road in year two of the rebuild is too early to decide.

Though having Marleau around as a playoff mentor does look sort of questionable when you think about his track record with San Jose.
Blame Marleau is a joke he is doing his part. Now if he was a heart surgeon then maybe we can blame him.

Marleau track record with The Sharks was great. He is not the problem and we are not in year two of the rebuild we are in year 4 it started when we fired Carlyle. We tanked two years in a row and this is now two years after tanking and drafting Mathews.
 

Nineteen67

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Six of the eight series are currently 2-0. In tough, but certainly not alone. I'd hoped to be knotted 1-1 going back to Toronto, but that didn't happen. Have to win both games at our rink just as Boston did theirs. Difficult, but not impossible, task.

There is a lot of difference in Colorado’s effort against Nashville versus the Leafs’ effort against Boston. Nathan McKinnon knows he has to play in beast mode, meaning - fighting for pucks, battling for position, fighting off checks, defending his zone- stuff that every successful playoff performer does. I’ve watched every series and the Leafs are by far the softest team of the 16.
 

diceman934

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Yeah it's definitely not over yet. It doesn't look good but ... it is not over. So many people seem to want autopsy results already, I'd rather wait until it's actually over and see is we did in fact lose first.
It is not over yet but players in two years in the playoffs have shown their tendencies and I have been less than impressed for sure. We have been exposed and unless we get buy in we are not going anywhere. Tired of the blaming of Badcock etc as he does not play the games. He has been like a broken record about playing the right way and his concerns have been shown to everyone.

Hockey is a game where paying the price by your whole team leads to success as no one needs to look any further than Vegas as they all bought in and they had a great season based on buyin and not skill as they are not even close to a top 10 skill team but hard work and playing for the team they are tops in the league.

Are we done yet not at all. Have a few players made their bed 100% certain they have. Let’s hope that we can have some push back and play for each other starting Monday.
 

The Hanging Jowl

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My expectations were as follows:

1. The team would be competitive, win or lose.

2. The coach would have his team ready to play and make good decisions to give his team the best chance of winning.

I was utterly disappointed in both regards in both games so far. Instead I got a shell shocked team and and a dear-caught-in-the-headlights coach and I blame it all entirely on the coach.
 

Gary Nylund

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It is not over yet but players in two years in the playoffs have shown their tendencies and I have been less than impressed for sure. We have been exposed and unless we get buy in we are not going anywhere. Tired of the blaming of Badcock etc as he does not play the games. He has been like a broken record about playing the right way and his concerns have been shown to everyone.

Hockey is a game where paying the price by your whole team leads to success as no one needs to look any further than Vegas as they all bought in and they had a great season based on buyin and not skill as they are not even close to a top 10 skill team but hard work and playing for the team they are tops in the league.

Are we done yet not at all. Have a few players made their bed 100% certain they have. Let’s hope that we can have some push back and play for each other starting Monday.

I agree, we're not done yet. I do think Babcock deserves some criticism at this point. I say this as someone who has defended him all year and I don't want to go overboard here either. However, when a team shows as poorly as we did in game 1, some of the blame rests with the coach IMO. I know he's not on the ice and so on but still, it's his job to prepare the team and they didn't look prepared. And Kadri lost his cool, if I'm the coach I have a long sit down with Kadri before the playoffs and make sure he 100% understands that he simply has to keep his cool no matter what. Anyhow, not blaming Babcock for the loss(es), just saying he doesn't get off scot-free as there's plenty of blame to go around and some of it lands on him.

I also thought we looked a lot better last year against WSH than we have so far. Those were tight games and we came pretty close to beating them, certainly a lot closer than we are now. JMHO.
 

Buds17

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There is a lot of difference in Colorado’s effort against Nashville versus the Leafs’ effort against Boston. Nathan McKinnon knows he has to play in beast mode, meaning - fighting for pucks, battling for position, fighting off checks, defending his zone- stuff that every successful playoff performer does. I’ve watched every series and the Leafs are by far the softest team of the 16.

Fair enough, but Colorado is still in that same boat - down 2-0 and heading back home. Can't say if they feel any better about things than "we" (fans/players/etc.) do.

Suppose it's fair to say that MacKinnon also has more NHL (regular season) games under his belt compared to the young players we're hoping to have that same impact. We're being soundly defeated so far, so not much is going right. Have to see if we have the ability and capability (to be tougher and better) to turn the tide.
 

Pookie

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Did you just say we should put Matt Martin in the lineup?

I'm saying the solution won't come from moving the deck chairs around.

Check this quote from Marner today on the loss of 43:

"Naz feels like a big brother to this team," Marner said. "He's a guy that plays the game with a lot of passion. He's a protector out there."
That's a little insight into their psyche. They've been dominated, pushed to the outside and playing what amounts to a feeble game.

They aren't that soft but they need to fell a little taller in their skates. Marner is acknowledging the impact of a "protector." Not talking a goon. Martin isn't that. He had 2 points in the series last year.

They need an emotional spark and something to ignite their confidence. If there are options other than Martin... sure. Got any?

I'd like to see Borgman, Leivo and Martin get some time in this series. The first 2 for development and assessment and the latter as a shot of confidence and a thank you for getting punched in the face all year.
 
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Menzinger

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Martin couldn’t even keep a roster spot in the regular season, the idea he’s now needed in the most important games of the year doesn’t seem to add up to me.
 

Pookie

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Martin couldn’t even keep a roster spot in the regular season, the idea he’s now needed in the most important games of the year doesn’t seem to add up to me.

How's the current "play dead" approach working?
 

socko

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While we're at it lets trade Russ Courtnall for John Kordic.

Martin has never been the answer to any question about winning hockey games.
 
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Menzinger

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How's the current "play dead" approach working?

The Leafs 4th line hasn’t been a problem this serie (other than Plek - and Martin isn’t a centre).

Martin can’t play special teams and he doesn’t play against the oppositions top lines.

You’d sit a guy like Kapanen over him?
 

Pookie

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The Leafs 4th line hasn’t been a problem this serie (other than Plek - and Martin isn’t a centre).

Martin can’t play special teams and he doesn’t play against the oppositions top lines.

You’d sit a guy like Kapanen over him?

Nope.

Sorry, just realized it was you I was replying to. We have the same discussion going on in 2 threads. I replied to this in the physicality thread. Let's save the refreshes and just focus on one.
 

Legion34

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Our fan base and media are rather foolish. The games didn’t go well. Ok. We forget that the team is 2 years removed from a last place finish, has set all time franchise records and. Our best players are 20,20,21,23.

They are learning and growing and doing an amazing job of it. No other team has done it like this successfully. We are giving the team a chance to win and not cutting themselves off by not selling off the ufas. We are matching up against a top team and it isn’t going well. Ok.

What we forget is...... Boston hasn’t won a series in how long? Their best players are experienced. They have won but also failed. A lot. They aren’t this super team that we won’t be able to beat. They have incredible momentum this year. Just like Ottawa last year. Look where they ended up..... this is the same team that got beat by Ottawa last year.

Look at Winnipeg. They are the exact same team this year as last. Huge difference. Their team got embarrassed and came back strong.

We have some holes to fill. We all new it. Lou has been conservative and traded extra picks we got from Polak to give the team some experience, but not mortgage the future. People are going to be calling for “trade willy for a shutdown d” and laughing at the oil for hall.

Our future core of

Johnson. Matthews. Marner
Grundstrom Nylander. Kapanen
Hyman. Gauthier. Brown.
Bracco.


Rielly. Lilly
Dermott

Sparks
Is incredible. We have so many prospects that I can’t even list them. The world isn’t ending, win or lose. And the series isn’t over yet
 

Jeypic

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When the franchise record is set with extra points for losing or winning a SO... you have to find the salt shaker and take a grain of it with you.

Series isn't over. '92-93 team lost the first 2 in Detroit I believe.

But look at the roster right now. Take off the UFAs... that's basically what we have going forward. You think the rebuild is over? There is a lot of development work left to do
the ufa’s are a part of our team that help us contend. Of course their is a lot of development work to do. But if you think that these years we have all of our star players on elc’s And guys like jvr still, are years that we shouldn’t be trying to compete in the playoffs you are going to end up waiting your whole life.
 

Nineteen67

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Fair enough, but Colorado is still in that same boat - down 2-0 and heading back home. Can't say if they feel any better about things than "we" (fans/players/etc.) do.

Suppose it's fair to say that MacKinnon also has more NHL (regular season) games under his belt compared to the young players we're hoping to have that same impact. We're being soundly defeated so far, so not much is going right. Have to see if we have the ability and capability (to be tougher and better) to turn the tide.

Not in the same boat at all. Not even in the same sea, for that matter.
They’ve all be playing hockey all their lives - compete should be in their DNA not timidity.

Let’s see if the Leafs can come out and punch Boston in the mouth or will they roll over and die.
 
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kindalaidback

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Our fan base and media are rather foolish. The games didn’t go well. Ok. We forget that the team is 2 years removed from a last place finish, has set all time franchise records and. Our best players are 20,20,21,23.

They are learning and growing and doing an amazing job of it. No other team has done it like this successfully. We are giving the team a chance to win and not cutting themselves off by not selling off the ufas. We are matching up against a top team and it isn’t going well. Ok.

What we forget is...... Boston hasn’t won a series in how long? Their best players are experienced. They have won but also failed. A lot. They aren’t this super team that we won’t be able to beat. They have incredible momentum this year. Just like Ottawa last year. Look where they ended up..... this is the same team that got beat by Ottawa last year.

Look at Winnipeg. They are the exact same team this year as last. Huge difference. Their team got embarrassed and came back strong.

We have some holes to fill. We all new it. Lou has been conservative and traded extra picks we got from Polak to give the team some experience, but not mortgage the future. People are going to be calling for “trade willy for a shutdown d” and laughing at the oil for hall.

Our future core of

Johnson. Matthews. Marner
Grundstrom Nylander. Kapanen
Hyman. Gauthier. Brown.
Bracco.


Rielly. Lilly
Dermott

Sparks
Is incredible. We have so many prospects that I can’t even list them. The world isn’t ending, win or lose. And the series isn’t over yet
First, what happened to Kadri? Second, I know this fanbase is obsessed with Gauthier, but I do not believe he is an NHL player and definitely not a third line center. Aaltonen should be ahead of him.
 

Legion34

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First, what happened to Kadri? Second, I know this fanbase is obsessed with Gauthier, but I do not believe he is an NHL player and definitely not a third line center. Aaltonen should be ahead of him.

Kadri is 27. I’m talking about the u25 core. Look at the future it’s pretty good.
I don’t know if Gauthier will work out. I couldn’t think of a 3rd c. But the point is pretty clear.

Most teams have tons of failures.... this is trial by fire. Let’s go and see what happens. Either way, win or lose... the window is just cracking open for the team
 

Peiskos

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Jan 4, 2018
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Fan expectations were right where they should be, an expectation that we would be a competitive team in the playoffs and if we lost games they wouldn't be by back to back blowouts. Especially for a season in which we set a record in franchise wins and points...and that's really what makes this so mind boggling, how a performance like this could even happen after such a record breaking regular season.
 

diceman934

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My expectations were as follows:

1. The team would be competitive, win or lose.

2. The coach would have his team ready to play and make good decisions to give his team the best chance of winning.

I was utterly disappointed in both regards in both games so far. Instead I got a shell shocked team and and a dear-caught-in-the-headlights coach and I blame it all entirely on the coach.

Lol Blame Babcock for what? He had them ready to go but you can not make them grow a set. People who wanted Johnnson in saw last night that he is the softest player by a lot. He attempted severally stick checks, Nylander has been missing in action same as Mathews except for 3rd period last night.

What a joke
 

diceman934

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Jul 31, 2010
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Our fan base and media are rather foolish. The games didn’t go well. Ok. We forget that the team is 2 years removed from a last place finish, has set all time franchise records and. Our best players are 20,20,21,23.

They are learning and growing and doing an amazing job of it. No other team has done it like this successfully. We are giving the team a chance to win and not cutting themselves off by not selling off the ufas. We are matching up against a top team and it isn’t going well. Ok.

What we forget is...... Boston hasn’t won a series in how long? Their best players are experienced. They have won but also failed. A lot. They aren’t this super team that we won’t be able to beat. They have incredible momentum this year. Just like Ottawa last year. Look where they ended up..... this is the same team that got beat by Ottawa last year.

Look at Winnipeg. They are the exact same team this year as last. Huge difference. Their team got embarrassed and came back strong.

We have some holes to fill. We all new it. Lou has been conservative and traded extra picks we got from Polak to give the team some experience, but not mortgage the future. People are going to be calling for “trade willy for a shutdown d” and laughing at the oil for hall.

Our future core of

Johnson. Matthews. Marner
Grundstrom Nylander. Kapanen
Hyman. Gauthier. Brown.
Bracco.


Rielly. Lilly
Dermott

Sparks
Is incredible. We have so many prospects that I can’t even list them. The world isn’t ending, win or lose. And the series isn’t over yet
Johnnson will not be around long based on no ability to be a hockey player far to soft. Sparks will not be here next year an AHL goalie. The goat is as good as gone he will be in Europe soon enough.

Nylander has proven thus far that we will not sign him for term unless it is less then 5m per as he is magic at disappearing when the going gets tough. He has effectively saved us a lot of money this summer as he has shown that he is afaid to even give a check never mined take a check. He has the rest of these playoffs to figure it out or he is looking at a short term deal.
 

Daisy Jane

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No. the Leafs biggest issue is not the Fan expectations set by the team.
the Leafs biggest issue is that they are not performing well collectively as a team. the end. They are capable of playing much better than this, and quite frankly, it doesnt bother me at all that we're 2-0 down - it bothers me that we're 2-0 down playing the way they played.

I expect them to play well.
I expect them to play like a team that had the 2nd best powerplay in the league. It's fine that PP% goes down but i think you can count on one hand how many goals they've had in 8 playoff games.
I expect their goalie to stop a puck.
I expect their defense to actually defend.
I expect their coach to make good coaching decisions
I expect the forwards to help with the defense, and drive to the net, not miss wide and be perimeter players

at the end of the day, I would argue that's what most people expect.

blaming it on Lou not trading the players you wanted them to trade is a cop-out. blaming the fanbase for wanting the team to win, is a copout. the team isn't playing well, and to me it doesn't matter if he team is under 25, or a bunch of 30yr old vets, if they get swept, they learn from it. (from Shanahan to the guys who make the team next year, of what happened, why did it happen, how do you prevent it from happening again).

then, we go into the summer making necessary changes. (starting with Lou's replacement (imo). and other things (ie: addressing the 3rd + 4th centre position, making some wholesale changes on the blue line, etc). However. I have the hope that this doesn't have to be in the next week, because the Leafs will get their heads out of their collective behinds, and win this series.


but if people want to bemoan that the Leafs didn't sell at the deadline. pick another tune. No they shouldn't have. (I'd argue what they should have done, was gone harder over McDonagh (who would be helping a lot right now), or another defenseman. If you want to argue they should have sold in the summer, that's what I said. (or early early in the season, then you adjust and then see what you had come TDL). This team is capable of doing really good things. They have to remember that. And if they fall flat on their face, it doesn't change the fact they are capable of doing really good things. They'll just have to prove that next year, after some necessary soul searching (from everyone), and changes to the team.
 

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