Sportsnet: Leafs are Shopping Phaneuf - MOD WARNING #394

[DD03]

When Kane got his 6.3M contract he had already won a stanley cup, and made the conference finals the season before. Since then he has won another Stanley cup, and Conn Smythe. If Chicago chooses to give Patrick Kane his 64 million I would say he has deserved it, no? Paying a player whose earned his contract and contributed to his teams sustainable success is something fans can get behind. Paying a player for yearly collapses is not something a smart organization does.

Boston won without him.

Obviously completely different context, but it's clear they needed a bit more then goal scoring from the same spot Kessel was at for 5 million.

 

[TMLegend]

If Phaneuf was traded and not replaced with someone as good or better, this team would have no chance at the playoffs. 3-4 defensemen? You clearly don't have a clue.

They don't as it is... I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.

 

[TootooTrain]

They don't as it is... I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.

Other than the last 10 games, yes they did have a chance. They had a chance all season long.

Without him or a viable replacement, we're pretty much a lock to miss out.

 

[diceman934]

Good job leaving out the years Dion played an offensive role like Letang does. When I say on par throughout their careers I mean at the same age. I clearly said on par their entire career and acknowledged letangs injury's holding him back from passing Dion, you can manipulate that as you wish.

I posted the last 4 years.....and they are clearing not on par like you claimed......you called out another poster and when I posted real facts, you now claim I have somehow Manipulate the stats.....Dion is not in the same hemisphere offensively as Letang as clearing shown by the last 4 years.

 

[Schennanigans]

They don't as it is... I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.

They'd be much worse than they are right now. And they already made the playoffs with him and were in the playoffs for most of the season this year. I wouldn't classify that as no chance.

 

[Durrr]

When Kane got his 6.3M contract he had already won a stanley cup, and made the conference finals the season before. Since then he has won another Stanley cup, and Conn Smythe. If Chicago chooses to give Patrick Kane his 64 million I would say he has deserved it, no? Paying a player whose earned his contract and contributed to his teams sustainable success is something fans can get behind. Paying a player for yearly collapses is not something a smart organization does.

Perfect so we agree. Do you not think that if the players were swapped the outcome would be similar, if not exactly the same? Kane gets to play with Toews, Sharp, Hossa, Kieth and Seabrook, and Kessel gets to play with Tyler Bozak, Joey Crabb (lol), Dion, Carl Gunnerson etc. If Kessel is on the Hawks, I'd say everything that happened to Kane has a excellent chance of happening to him.

Look, I'm not saying I'd have Kessel as the center piece to my team or that I'd move 2 firsts to get him without having anything resembling a core in place. All I'm saying, is it's not Kessel's fault he got dealt a ****** hand. We don't have a core to win, so how can any of our players be winners.

 

[Trapper]

I'm not taking it personal, I'm just trying to have a real discussion about a player on the leafs and people are throwing around untrue facts so I answer in kind.

Dion doesn't need a new role, he needs support in the role he has. Real support, not 3rd liners and AHL players. I don't think Letang is worth anything close to 7, but like Toronto, he is their guy and they paid him what the market would pay him.

Ok good.
So we both agree that Letang is overpayed.
Another poster here said pair Phaneuf with McDonough and see what happens. Ok then if we are keeping him (and at 7), he needs to be top pair and our first priority should be getting him that partner. Then Gunnar can drop to #3.

 

[diceman934]

So true. Our whole team is full of 3-4 defensemen except for Dion. Rielly was getting up there and so was Gardiner near the end of the year, but Dion is the only top pairing defenseman we have.

Well Dion then must be a 3/4 D man at best then, as he got out played by his partner this year!

 

[TMLegend]

Other than the last 10 games, yes they did have a chance. They had a chance all season long.[/B[

Every advanced stat would suggest otherwise, and their play on the ice would definitely confirm it.

Without him or a viable replacement, we're pretty much a lock to miss out.

And that wouldn't be such a bad thing. Especially if they could finish bottom 5, instead of toiling in mediocrity forever.

 

[Durrr]

I posted the last 4 years.....and they are clearing not on par like you claimed......you called out another poster and when I posted real facts, you now claim I have somehow Manipulate the stats.....Dion is not in the same hemisphere offensively as Letang as clearing shown by the last 4 years.

You fully did manipulate the stats and just ignore it in this post. Year by year (at the same age), Dion and Letang were/are on par offensively. If you want to ignore this by posting stats from the last 4 years (when it's clear that Dion has not been used as an offensive player), it really doesn't make you any less wrong.

If you want me to go further, Letang's PPG CAREER ratio is 0.54ppg, while Dion's is.....OH LOOK 0.54ppg (with a higher GPG). Different Hemisphere LOL, do the math if you want.

 

[DD03]

Well Dion then must be a 3/4 D man at best then, as he got out played by his partner this year!

Not really. Dion was a top d man during the beginning of the season. It was basically after the Olympics he fell apart, and by that time we didn't even have a partner for him because our team was in shambles.

The worst thing to do is change up defense tandems. I think you make them and keep to them all season. Chemistry with defenseman is super under-rated on this board. The plays they can make, the communication needed and everything else.

Obviously it changes for PP and PK but the point still stands. I think Grapes did a Coach's Corner and said the same thing way back when Wilson was coach and he was constantly changing the pairings.

 

[diceman934]

Ok good.
So we both agree that Letang is overpayed.
Another poster here said pair Phaneuf with McDonough and see what happens. Ok then if we are keeping him (and at 7), he needs to be top pair and our first priority should be getting him that partner. Then Gunnar can drop to #3.

Sadly we need a #1 D man to play with Dion to make him look better..... to call him an number 1 D man when he clearly is not is what is wrong with the Leafs....our Core is made up of flawed players.

Dion can not carry a partner.....he needs someone to carry him.

 

[Trapper]

Sadly we need a #1 D man to play with Dion to make him look better..... to call him an number 1 D man when he clearly is not is what is wrong with the Leafs....our Core is made up of flawed players.

Dion can not carry a partner.....he needs someone to carry him.

People have to realize it's going to cost a JVR,Kadri or Rielly to get a top pairing D like a McDonough right. But if you're committed to Phaneuf you have to do it.

 

[diceman934]

Not really. Dion was a top d man during the beginning of the season. It was basically after the Olympics he fell apart, and by that time we didn't even have a partner for him because our team was in shambles.

The worst thing to do is change up defense tandems. I think you make them and keep to them all season. Chemistry with defenseman is super under-rated on this board. The plays they can make, the communication needed and everything else.

Obviously it changes for PP and PK but the point still stands. I think Grapes did a Coach's Corner and said the same thing way back when Wilson was coach and he was constantly changing the pairings.

Sorry but Dion played better with Gunnar and worse away from him, and Gunnar played better away from Dion and worse with him.....I say again that Gunnar was the better D man all year.

 

[TootooTrain]

Every advanced stat would suggest otherwise, and their play on the ice would definitely confirm it.

The standings say different. Not defending it, but despite their weak play, they were in it all season long.

 

[Mess]

Well this thread has reached its limit of over 1000 posts

/Closed