Confirmed with Link: Leafs Appoint Horachek and Spott As Assistant Coaches

[Cor]

Yeah, like I said, development, although we are unable to see the results currently, improving with the mentality of the AHL being a place where the kids need to play with Spott, but also, Shanahan said that jobs for younger players always needs to be an option (I think sometime around the draft) and then stated again the other day that the opportunity is there for the young kids to grab spots.

As for Nonis, I don't think he is terrible like some people, but to me he is below average. I just have a feeling that he isn't the long-term solution and it is a feeling I can't seem to kick for whatever reason

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

yea, i don't hold hatred towards Nonis. I think it was smart of him to not overspend on the free agent market and the 8th pick could've gone to either nylander or ehlers and it would've been fine either way.

but what drives me nuts is the complete disregard of draft picks. There was no need to throw away 2nd round picks like nothing for the trades for bolland/bernier/holland. Also our drafting sucks. Lets not play around here, we have no player (not called Nylander) that is sure shot to crack the top 6. Our goalie pool is horrible with Riemer wanting to leave and absolutely no one to replace him with. on top of that we let Macintyre go for nothing

Nonis isn't a horrible GM but he needs to make serious improvements in the draft selection to build up this team

 

[jmart21]

How ironic it is that many of the same people that cried foul when Spott was hired as the Marlies HC are now onboard with him being around.

Goes to show that no matter how vehemently people around here advocate something being a good/bad idea; they pull a 180 when hindsight comes around.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

Kevin Dineen joins Blackhawks as assistant coach.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=457188



would he have been a better option than spott or horachek?

 

[Cor]

How ironic it is that many of the same people that cried foul when Spott was hired as the Marlies HC are now onboard with him being around.

Goes to show that no matter how vehemently people around here advocate something being a good/bad idea; they pull a 180 when hindsight comes around.

Not a good post.

Many peoples only real idea of spot was the WJC's where he gave Rielly limited ice time, and actually tried to use him in a pure defensive situation, which is very poor player management.

Thus, people were doubtful of the hire. He proved said people wrong, and because of that, people now like him.

People admitted they were wrong and changed their minds. Has nothing to do with hindsight in this case, and is actually a good thing.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Many peoples only real idea of spot was the WJC's where he gave Rielly limited ice time, and actually tried to use him in a pure defensive situation, which is very poor player management.

Thus, people were doubtful of the hire..

To be fair I think his point was that that was a really stupid reason to be doubtful of a hire, and that it's funny how vehemently people will argue in favour of a particular point of view, even when it's apparently so flimsy that it will flip-flop based on almost nothing.

 

[Cor]

I think his point was that that was a really stupid reason to be doubtful of a hire

It's not though. It is extremely poor player judgment and management, and it was the only thing the majority of the people on here saw of him, so they had a reason to be doubtful.

It's not like it was just Rielly. He poorly coached that whole WJC team, it wasn't good.

There was doubt, Spott proved it wrong, and people are now happy. That isn't a bad thing.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Dineen is in Chicago.
boooo. lol

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

It's not though. It is extremely poor player judgment and management, and it was the only thing the majority of the people on here saw of him, so they had a reason to be doubtful.

It's a natural impulse to want to make assumptions based on insufficient information (hence stereotypes), but speaking with any air of authority on the subject when all you know of a coach is one stint at the WJC is still going to make you look like a bit of a jackass.

I don't know if you remember the thread about Spott being hired to coach the Marlies, but oh man, the condescension, the hysteria....

 

[Daisy Jane]

It's a natural impulse to want to make assumptions based on insufficient information (hence stereotypes), but speaking with any air of authority on the subject when all you know of a coach is one stint at the WJC is still going to make you look like a bit of a jackass.

I don't know if you remember the thread about Spott being hired to coach the Marlies, but oh man, the condescension, the hysteria....

it was bad.

 

[Cor]

It's a natural impulse to want to make assumptions based on insufficient information (hence stereotypes), but speaking with any air of authority on the subject when all you know of a coach is one stint at the WJC is still going to make you look like a bit of a jackass.

I don't know if you remember the thread about Spott being hired to coach the Marlies, but oh man, the condescension....

In every thread there is condescension. We could win the Cup and there would be people pissed of how we won it



People pass judgment of things on what they know, and all people here knew was the WJC which wasn't pretty to watch coaching wise. People were doubtful because that was what they knew of Spott, got proved wrong, and now pretty much everyone loves him.

There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

In every thread there is condescension. We could win the Cup and there would be people pissed of how we won it



People pass judgment of things on what they know, and all people here knew was the WJC which wasn't pretty to watch coaching wise. People were doubtful because that was what they knew of Spott, got proved wrong, and now pretty much everyone loves him.

There is nothing wrong with that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being doubtful.... but there's a difference between doubtful and 'OH MY GOD NONIS IS A ****ING IDIOT SPOTT IS GOING TO RUIN THE DEVELOPMENT OF ALL OUR YOUNG PLAYERS THANKS AGAIN MLSE ****ING ******** 46 YEARS AND COUNTING ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THE EASIEST WAY TO KILL YOURSELF IS????"

 

[Cor]

I don't think there's anything wrong with being doubtful.... but there's a difference between doubtful and 'OH MY GOD NONIS IS A ****ING IDIOT SPOTT IS GOING TO RUIN THE DEVELOPMENT OF ALL OUR YOUNG PLAYERS THANKS AGAIN MLSE ****ING ******** 46 YEARS AND COUNTING ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THE EASIEST WAY TO KILL YOURSELF IS????"

This is the internet, there are always people who act like that.

If you pay attention to the posters who should be paid attention too, it was nothing like that, but there was doubt based on the WJC which is all anyone really saw of Spott coaching

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

If you pay attention to the posters who should be paid attention too

But that's like.... you, Daisy, Chuck, jmart21 and a couple other people. I wouldn't even pay attention to myself if I didn't have to.

 

[Cor]

But that's like.... you, Daisy, Chuck, jmart21 and a couple other people. I wouldn't even pay attention to myself if I didn't have to.

some would disagree with that part about me

There are a few people than that for me, for example BiItz is a real good poster, especially prospects wise.

 

[Daisy Jane]

But that's like.... you, Daisy, Chuck, jmart21 and a couple other people. I wouldn't even pay attention to myself if I didn't have to.

you're not that bad. (neither are you Cor)

but at the end of the day - I think it's not so much the initial reaction - it's what happens after that. the sack-cloth and ashes routine sometimes gets very irritating.

It wouldn't surprise me if Babcock or Shanahan's #1 Choice doesn't pan out, the real audition (note that both assistants get media privileges this season?) is who can handle the pressure more, Horacheck (who while a head coach only had to deal with Florida's beat writers.. so like 2?) vs. Spott - who did deal with the onslaught... but at the minor level (so basically, Florida-esque in the level of interest.. but Toronto-esque in quantity)

it's all of these little nuances that i find so intriguing!

 

[StuckOutHere]

Here's my take on it:

Organizational

Shanahan hasn't done anything in the game of hockey at a management level. As a fan, I can get behind him because I recognized what he did as a player and his level of accomplishments on the ice. As an executive, it is way to early to say that he's a good or bad addition.

I think the Leafs as an organization is run fairly poorly. As a business, they have done very well. As an organization, they continue to raise prices with a poor product. It's like a toy company making an awful toy that continues to have manufacturer recalls and yet people are so enamored by it, that they just have to look past it. I don't want to get too far into it right now but the basics of it would be that Leaf fans reward failure.

Team Management

I don't like the mentality that people have with Nonis is just a temporary GM or anything along those lines. It's obvious that he was qualified for the job or else they wouldn't have gave it to him. He has made some terrible decisions and he's also made some smart ones as well.

Development/Marlies

The Leafs have done an AWFUL job with bringing their players through the system. I can't believe how bad they've been with this aspect.

It wouldn't matter if you had Scottie Bowman in his prime coaching the Marlies every season. If they don't have a place to go when they've developed at that level, then what's the point. The last player that actually played a full season with the Marlies before playing with the Leafs was John Mitchell... who was a 5th round draft pick from 2003. Take a look at their draft history and look at the players:

Kadri - was back and forth for parts of 3 seasons
Rielly & Schenn - both started with the Leafs
Frattin - came right out of college and then got sent back
Kulemin - started with the Leafs from Russia
Reimer - you could make a case for him, but he was back and forth from the AHL to ECHL a lot and never carried the load of a full AHL season
Stralman - started with the Leafs in his rookie season and got sent back down

If you think about that, over the past 10 years, there has been only 1 player that was fully developed and ready to play for the Maple Leafs in a full time role. I'm not talking about guys that come up and play 20 games and get sent back down.

And I will go back to my favourite team in terms of development within that same time frame, the Detroit Red Wings. They've managed to develop players including: Jimmy Howard, Kyle Quincey, Jakub Kindl, Justin Abdelkader, Darren Helm, Brendan Smith, Joakim Andersson, Gustav Nyqvist, Tomas Tatar & Tomas Jurco.

If that doesn't blow your mind, I don't know what will.

Ohh and I should point out that they haven't missed the playoffs basically since a majority of people on here have been alive. haha

Scouting

Recently, it seems like the scouting staff has woken up a bit. Because I don't even want to get into how bad it was in the early 2000's.

I'm on the fence with trading picks though. I don't care if you trade a 7th rounder or a 4th to get a solid veteran. But when you trade 2nd round picks for Holland, Bolland and Bernier, sometimes it doesn't work out.

...Am I reading this as a complaint? I make that trade 600 times a week.

 

[Kyle93]

you're not that bad. (neither are you Cor)

but at the end of the day - I think it's not so much the initial reaction - it's what happens after that. the sack-cloth and ashes routine sometimes gets very irritating.

It wouldn't surprise me if Babcock or Shanahan's #1 Choice doesn't pan out, the real audition (note that both assistants get media privileges this season?) is who can handle the pressure more, Horacheck (who while a head coach only had to deal with Florida's beat writers.. so like 2?) vs. Spott - who did deal with the onslaught... but at the minor level (so basically, Florida-esque in the level of interest.. but Toronto-esque in quantity)

it's all of these little nuances that i find so intriguing!

Are you sure about that?

IMO I think they will both be good with the media especially Spott, he did deal with the media quite a bit with the Marlies and I think he can handle it.

 

[rojac]

you're not that bad. (neither are you Cor)

but at the end of the day - I think it's not so much the initial reaction - it's what happens after that. the sack-cloth and ashes routine sometimes gets very irritating.

It wouldn't surprise me if Babcock or Shanahan's #1 Choice doesn't pan out, the real audition (note that both assistants get media privileges this season?) is who can handle the pressure more, Horacheck (who while a head coach only had to deal with Florida's beat writers.. so like 2?) vs. Spott - who did deal with the onslaught... but at the minor level (so basically, Florida-esque in the level of interest.. but Toronto-esque in quantity)

it's all of these little nuances that i find so intriguing!

Or is it simply a matter that Randy wanted to be a little more hands-on -- hence, him handling the Penalty Kill -- so the assistants are taking on some of the media stuff to give him more time to do so?

 

[showtime8]

...Am I reading this as a complaint? I make that trade 600 times a week.

Absolutely not.

I would make that trade 100 times out of 100.

In hindsight, I doubt there are many that make the Bolland trade. The Holland trade is yet to be determined. He was a 1st round pick and with some time with the Leafs, he will get a chance to prove his worth.

3 out of the past 4 years the Leafs haven't had a 2nd round pick. I might be making something out of nothing here, but that could be part of the problem with development as well.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Absolutely not.

I would make that trade 100 times out of 100.

In hindsight, I doubt there are many that make the Bolland trade. The Holland trade is yet to be determined. He was a 1st round pick and with some time with the Leafs, he will get a chance to prove his worth.

3 out of the past 4 years the Leafs haven't had a 2nd round pick. I might be making something out of nothing here, but that could be part of the problem with development as well.

Well the problem used to be trading first round picks, so we're getting better I guess.

 

[showtime8]

Well the problem used to be trading first round picks, so we're getting better I guess.

hahaha yea, I guess that's one way to look at it.

 

[Cor]

Aww what happened?

 

[TheCLAM]

People over-value second round picks, due to our lack of having them. It's not like we've traded these picks for aging veterans instead it's been for usable players. A great shut-down third line center (Bolland), a young former 1st round pick with top 9 PO (Holland) and a PO starting goaltender (Bernier). People are stuck in the days of trading away picks! In reality we've kept our first round picks while trading away second rounders for player that are either proven or with high potential.

The only second round pick I wished we kept was when we drafted up to select Tyler Biggs.

 

[showtime8]

People over-value second round picks, due to our lack of having them. It's not like we've traded these picks for aging veterans instead it's been for usable players. A great shut-down third line center (Bolland), a young former 1st round pick with top 9 PO (Holland) and a PO starting goaltender (Bernier). People are stuck in the days of trading away picks! In reality we've kept our first round picks while trading away second rounders for player that are either proven or with high potential.

The only second round pick I wished we kept was when we drafted up to select Tyler Biggs.

You wouldn't have kept the 2nd round pick and drafted someone, instead of just have Bolland for the 25 games.