Friedman: Leafs an unlikely fit for Pietrangelo

[MarkusKetterer]

Great tip-in. He should be the net front presence on the PP

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Gee, do you think maybe it's because teams don't trade away players like Alex Pietrangelo?

Some guy got traded to San Jose who wasn't a bad defender

 

[Kamiccolo]

Man Leafs are 2nd in the NHL and reading this thread you'd think they were a bottom feeder getting fed their lunch. People really forgetting how young the core of the team is. They are only 2 years outside of finishing last and the group is still experiencing growing pains, and that includes some pretty ugly games sometimes.

However Dermott has been outstanding and is already a top 4 D but gets very underrated because no one actually watches games and assume some no name guy on their defense must suck.

Oz is a bottom pairing D for sure. Zaitsev should be on the bottom pair IMO. There is the issue with the defense. Hainsey and Zaitsev need to get bumped down a pair.

If Gardiner leaves, then Dermott takes his spot and Rosen who is destroying the AHL comes in as a bottom pair D. If somehow he folds, there are multiple bottom pair guys available for cheap or waivers every year.

I'd rather they kept their depth up front instead of destroying it's firepower and depth going "all in" on a deal that marginally upgrades the defense and severly downgrades not only the forwards, but the QUALITY of cheap depth that will be crucial in the next few years.

Leafs have been incredible at developing talent since their rebuild of their front office. I am confident they can develop the pieces in place to fill needs they might have.

The doomsday talk is wishful thinking or ignorance. NO team in the league has no holes or area's that "need to improve" in order to win. Leafs just happen to have that on their ride side of the defense.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Nylander for Pietrangelo would be absolutely steal for Toronto. No way that's the only ask.

Pietrangelo is a top 5-7 D in the game. He's worth closer to Marner than Nylander.

The McDonogh and Karlsson trades tell a different tale

 

[Kamiccolo]

Great tip-in. He should be the net front presence on the PP

Can find a clip of any D making a mistake

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Can find a clip of any D making a mistake

I know! Gotta defend your Leaf players!! Even if it was a genuine compliment!!

 

[TorontoTrades]

Friedman said Blues called on Nylander and brought up Pietrangelo but Toronto didn't want to move Nylander for him and wanted to ultimately sign him. He went on to say Toronto may circle back in the future and see if a deal can be made without Nylander.

I don't see that happening though as I wouldn't want to give up Kap and Liljegren and I can't see how both wouldn't be involved for Petro.

 

[Liferleafer]

Friedman said Blues called on Nylander and brought up Pietrangelo but Toronto didn't want to move Nylander for him and wanted to ultimately sign him. He went on to say Toronto may circle back in the future and see if a deal can be made without Nylander.

I don't see that happening though as I wouldn't want to give up Kap and Liljegren and I can't see how both wouldn't be involved for Petro.

If it's true that they turned down Petro....then it was very clear that it was either sign or sit....Dubas had no intention of trading him if that's the case.

 

[Weiss1604]

Freidman's exact words are as follows : "My guess is as follows : St louis put him in Nylander discussions ".

He even admits he's guessing , admits no source etc etc . Can't believe people don't read articles properly but that's life i guess , got to get those hits though & credit where credit is due Elliot is a master at this . Kudos Mr Freidman .

 

[biturbo19]

He’s not just an average “a top six winger” he hit 60 points as a 20 year old rookie. You don’t trade players that young and that good for vets.

Not if you actually want to have sustained success in today’s NHL. Which is why it’s never happened in recent years.

When you're offered The biggest missing piece from your team, in the form of a 28 year old #1 RHD...i think you do it, pretty easily.

The idea of sustaining some long-term success off into the far future is far-fetched these days. Just look at where teams like the Kings and Blackhawks are right now. The Penguins are the only ones really still clinging to that, by essentially boiling their core down to 2-3 players. It's even more extreme now, considering teams are now paying their core pieces 8 figure salaries right out of ELC before they've even won a darn thing. Windows are narrowing, "sustainable" cores are shrinking. More pieces are becoming more moveable because you need to maintain flexibility around your core 2-4 players. If you can get that critical missing piece in prime years at a great cap number for this year and next...that's 2 kicks at the can, as good as you're ever gonna get. While you can afford premium supporting pieces with Matthews and Marner on ELCs, Babcock still within his shelf-life as coach, a goaltender playing a Vezina candidate level. Pietrangelo moves the contender needle massively more than Nylander for the Leafs in the near 2-year future...and really, probably in a few years after that as well.

One way or another, sooner or later the Leafs are going to have to boil their forward core down (like the Penguins and Hawks) to Matthews+Tavares and there's really only going to be room for one of Nylander/Marner long-term (at most). If you can make that decision now, and get that top-pairing RHD to put you over the top...you do it. Forget about half a dozen years from now...your team/core is going to need to be substantially streamlined/narrowed and look very different by then anyway.

 

[Cor]

Nowhere does it say Piet is an unlikely fit.

Friedman GUESSES that St Louis offered him in Nylander discussions, but the Leafs declined due to age/contract term. Friedman even says that even if that's true, that wouldn't stop Toronto from looking at Piet again.

So the title is interesting.

 

[Menzinger]

When you're offered The biggest missing piece from your team, in the form of a 28 year old #1 RHD...i think you do it, pretty easily.

The idea of sustaining some long-term success off into the far future is far-fetched these days. Just look at where teams like the Kings and Blackhawks are right now. The Penguins are the only ones really still clinging to that, by essentially boiling their core down to 2-3 players. It's even more extreme now, considering teams are now paying their core pieces 8 figure salaries right out of ELC before they've even won a darn thing. Windows are narrowing, "sustainable" cores are shrinking. More pieces are becoming more moveable because you need to maintain flexibility around your core 2-4 players. If you can get that critical missing piece in prime years at a great cap number for this year and next...that's 2 kicks at the can, as good as you're ever gonna get. While you can afford premium supporting pieces with Matthews and Marner on ELCs, Babcock still within his shelf-life as coach, a goaltender playing a Vezina candidate level. Pietrangelo moves the contender needle massively more than Nylander for the Leafs in the near 2-year future...and really, probably in a few years after that as well.

One way or another, sooner or later the Leafs are going to have to boil their forward core down (like the Penguins and Hawks) to Matthews+Tavares and there's really only going to be room for one of Nylander/Marner long-term (at most). If you can make that decision now, and get that top-pairing RHD to put you over the top...you do it. Forget about half a dozen years from now...your team/core is going to need to be substantially streamlined/narrowed and look very different by then anyway.

If they’re going to trade a Nylander or Marner (and I don’t agree at all it’s inevitable that t happens) it’s not going to be for an older vet, it’ll be for a similarly aged player.

Age and contract status is a major variable in any trade.

 

[Spirit of 67]

What scares me is that if Elliot is saying it, it probably means he's a good fit.

 

[biturbo19]

If they’re going to trade a Nylander or Marner (and I don’t agree at all it’s inevitable that t happens) it’s not going to be for an older vet, it’ll be for a similarly aged player.

Age and contract status is a major variable in any trade.

If you're trading a winger for a similarly aged defenceman though, you're going to get a significantly inferior defenceman to Pietrangelo. The market for top defencemen is just so much steeper. You're gonna maybe get a #3D at best, instead of a #1D like Pietrangelo should continue to be for at least a handful more years. That's a big downgrade in the pursuit of youth and contract status.

 

[DougGilmour93]

I think St. Louis would prefer to erase that whole deal and start again with Marner+.

That’s a knee slapper! Lol

 

[Kamiccolo]

If you're trading a winger for a similarly aged defenceman though, you're going to get a significantly inferior defenceman to Pietrangelo. The market for top defencemen is just so much steeper. You're gonna maybe get a #3D at best, instead of a #1D like Pietrangelo should continue to be for at least a handful more years. That's a big downgrade in the pursuit of youth and contract status.

Except that he has 1.5 years left, is due for a massive raise, and is currently playing some of the worst hockey in his career.

There is more to value than just value in a vacuum or past pedigree.

 

[Weiss1604]

What scares me is that if Elliot is saying it, it probably means he's a good fit.

Whilst you maybe correct , i could have said the exact same thing , it's not rocket science :
If Petro is availiable their maybe a fit in Toronto , well no shit sherlock . Like wise if Vladdy is available maybe theirs a fit in Carolina again common sense .
At no point has Elliot been told anything by the Blues , he admits as much but everyone reads between the lines & not the actual line.
Very smart by Elliot & as iv'e previously said Kudos to him , he's a master at this & being in Toronto has a whole fan base ( world's largest hockey fan base ) waiting on his every word .
He's just a highly intelligent reporter who adds common sense unlike the majority in his industry .

 

[Menzinger]

If you're trading a winger for a similarly aged defenceman though, you're going to get a significantly inferior defenceman to Pietrangelo. The market for top defencemen is just so much steeper. You're gonna maybe get a #3D at best, instead of a #1D like Pietrangelo should continue to be for at least a handful more years. That's a big downgrade in the pursuit of youth and contract status.

You’re giving up a player youncontrol for at least the next 6 years for one that has well under 2 seasons left (and that’s aside from touching on stuff like he’s on injured reserve and likely needs a major surgery).

There’s good reason why we haven’t seen a GM trade a player on Nylander’s situation for a vet in the current CBA era.

 

[glucker]

Not my problem you can't handle the truth. You need to be reminded I guess. The situation is what it is.

K so you're not interested in have an actual conversation. That's cool.

 

[biturbo19]

Except that he has 1.5 years left, is due for a massive raise, and is currently playing some of the worst hockey in his career.

There is more to value than just value in a vacuum or past pedigree.

A "massive raise"? Pietrangelo is on a good deal right now. And as a UFA, he's not going to get Doughty money. Probably something closer to the John Carlson coming off a Stanley Cup sort of ballpark. So essentially, maybe a ~$1Mish and change more than Nylander? Maybe an extra $2M at worst? Sure he could walk...but he's a good ol' Ontaria boy, who would be going to a team with serious Cup aspirations, lots of talent, and a well-respected coach. I'd like to think they'd have a pretty good inside track on re-signing him.

I mean, if you think 28 year old Pietrangelo is washed up and never going to return to form, i guess you don't do the deal. I find it hard to believe he's not going to rebound though. There's also more to value than "what have you done for me lately?" Petro has a solid track record of being arguably a Top-10 defenceman in the league, and just happens to be having a rough year in a season where that entire Blues team seem to be a bit...off. That established past pedigree and track record is a pretty significant counterweight against one bad third of a season.

 

[Kamiccolo]

A "massive raise"? Pietrangelo is on a good deal right now. And as a UFA, he's not going to get Doughty money. Probably something closer to the John Carlson coming off a Stanley Cup sort of ballpark. So essentially, maybe a ~$1Mish and change more than Nylander? Maybe an extra $2M at worst? Sure he could walk...but he's a good ol' Ontaria boy, who would be going to a team with serious Cup aspirations, lots of talent, and a well-respected coach. I'd like to think they'd have a pretty good inside track on re-signing him.

I mean, if you think 28 year old Pietrangelo is washed up and never going to return to form, i guess you don't do the deal. I find it hard to believe he's not going to rebound though. There's also more to value than "what have you done for me lately?" Petro has a solid track record of being arguably a Top-10 defenceman in the league, and just happens to be having a rough year in a season where that entire Blues team seem to be a bit...off. That established past pedigree and track record is a pretty significant counterweight against one bad third of a season.

Gardiner can get Nylander money on the market... Yo think Pie is going to get only a bit more than that? 9M is his floor.

 

[Habs Halifax]

K so you're not interested in have an actual conversation. That's cool.

I was until a few got sensitive about it.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

If it's true that they turned down Petro....then it was very clear that it was either sign or sit....Dubas had no intention of trading him if that's the case.

If Dubas turned down Pietrangelo for Nylander then he must not know much about contending with contributing ELCs.

 

[93gilmour93]

I think St. Louis would prefer to erase that whole deal and start again with Marner+.

Lol

 

[Liferleafer]

If Dubas turned down Pietrangelo for Nylander then he must not know much about contending with contributing ELCs.

I kind of agree, i like Nylander...but dam, if Petro was offered? I think i would have pulled the trigger.