Post-Game Talk: Leafs 2, Pens 1 (OT): **** Off Sully

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I understand all that...kunitz sucks now. Its no secret.

We all (mostly) understand he sucks.

What we don't understand is how he continues to find his way back into the top six.

It's beyond bizarre at this point and it's extremely difficult not to discuss things that are... bizarre as hell.

 

[Penske]

Marner was decent, Anderson was good. Honestly, a better team blows us out tonight though.

They played well in terms of setting things up it was just execution. Many times they would have had Fleury beat but some of the passes were too hard or a little off. Other times the pass was good but couldn't finish. That's going to happen with a young team though. Impressed with their attack on the puck. They got us at a good time though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A double minor turns into a full 2 minute 5 on 3... and we get 1 shot on net.

BUT FLEURY.

I like how this is the defense of Fleury supporters, Fleury didn't have his own issues because something else was worse. Fleury played very well tonight and only had the OT gaffe, but pointing out the PP also sucks is just deflecting away from Fleury's issues.

I also kinda forgot Murray played in this game, he didn't look all that sharp when he was in net IIRC. That's what playing as much as he has will do to you though. I wonder who the Penguins will go with to play on Tuesday, both Murray and Fleury had very good games this weekend despite losing.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

Zaitsev and Anderson were very good. I would also give a plus to Carrick,Marner and Kadri ( albeit I would like some penguins to punch his face.lol.If you want to play this type of game,he 's valueable.). Slightly disappointed by Matthews. Nylander not good tonight.


Edit: What's Gardiner's situation in Toronto? Pens need another defenseman. I doubt he's in your long term plan.

Gardiner is definitely in our long-term plan, he's only 26. You need some "vets" in your line-up, and Gardiner is a good player at a position that is our weak point. The only way we move Gardiner is in a package for a better defender.

JVR would be in our long-term plans as well (and still could be), but he's going to get a big contract next off-season, and we're loaded with young talent up front & need another D. That's the only reason we might move him, not his age.

 

[madinsomniac]

We all (mostly) understand he sucks.

What we don't understand is how he continues to find his way back into the top six.

It's beyond bizarre at this point and it's extremely difficult not to discuss things that are... bizarre as hell.

Its hockey culture to unconditionally reward old vets past their primes

 

[Sideline]

At least they got a point.

Sullivan clearly cannot be trusted with Kunitz. JR must fix this.

MAF was good enough to get a win. The way he's played that's an improvement.

Phil needs to throw out this batch of sticks.

Pouliot looked pretty good until the end. I hope he gets enough rope to play through this.

 

[MR4]

Marner was decent, Anderson was good. Honestly, a better team blows us out tonight though.

Zaitsev and Anderson were very good. I would also give a plus to Carrick,Marner and Kadri ( albeit I would like some penguins to punch his face.lol.If you want to play this type of game,he 's valueable.). Slightly disappointed by Matthews. Nylander not good tonight.


Edit: What's Gardiner's situation in Toronto? Pens need another defenseman. I doubt he's in your long term plan.

Thanks for the input guys, didn't watch much of the game so can't really comment on your team.

And to Gardiner, even if he's not in the core long-term plans, only way I see him being traded is in a package for a RHD able to play top pair with Rielly, which you guys obviously can't afford to trade away.

Someone like JVR, Bozak or Soshnikov is who I'm expecting to be the first notable person traded, maybe to the Pens if your GM wants more offensive depth.

 

[Penske]

At least they got a point.

Sullivan clearly cannot be trusted with Kunitz. JR must fix this.

MAF was good enough to get a win. The way he's played that's an improvement.

Phil needs to throw out this batch of sticks.

Pouliot looked pretty good until the end. I hope he gets enough rope to play through this.

I don't see JR trading Kunitz. Rumoured to have tried previously but I think Kunitz probably mentioned retiring and there is an understanding he'll retire a Penguin after this season. Sully though is able to him where he wants though. 3rd-4th line. Give him time off here and there. Maybe that'll improve his play a bit.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Its hockey culture to unconditionally reward old vets past their primes

I talked about Kunitz getting the nod in the lineup over guys like Wilson, Kuhn and even Fehr because he is a long tenured vet that won two cups with this team.

You see stuff like that around the league, no doubt.

However, I've never seen a vet play like total ass, be completely unproductive like Kunitz and get... promoted.

That's why it's impossible to ignore and not discuss. It's bananas and yet it just keeps happening. I keep saying this, but I've never seen anything like this in all the yrs I followed this sport... on any team.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

A double minor turns into a full 2 minute 5 on 3... and we get 1 shot on net.

BUT FLEURY.

As if nobody has mentioned the ineptitude of the pp.

And most everybody is saying Fleury had a really good game where he made an overly-aggressive play on a hopeless 2-0. That's fair to say.

 

[Sideline]

I talked about Kunitz getting the nod in the lineup over guys like Wilson, Kuhn and even Fehr because he is a long tenured vet that won two cups with this team.

You see stuff like that around the league, no doubt.

However, I've never seen a vet play like total ass, be completely unproductive like Kunitz and get... promoted.

That's why it's impossible to ignore and not discuss. It's bananas and yet it just keeps happening. I keep saying this, but I've never seen anything like this in all the yrs I followed this sport... on any team.

The only thing close to this I can remember is Dan Cleary with Detroit. Babcock played him up and down the lineup well past his prime.

 

[Peat]

I actually think sheary has looked better without Crosby. Less pressure. I've always said I liked sheary...just not with Sid. He needs a guy like kessel. We've seen too many players "earn" their way up to play with Crosby...only to look worse. Is it a confidence thing? Saw it briefly with Rust tonight as well.

That's why I keep bringing up Guentzel. He was put on the 2nd line immediately and it didn't phase him at all. He's the player I think can finally gel with Crosby...on a "consistent" level.

I'd like to move Sheary back to the third as well - not because I think he can't play with Sid, but because I think he's the best choice for sparking some offence there - but I don't see how you do that without weakening the team based on the current roster. I'd agree that Guentzel could be the answer but hoping for him to be back up seems about as realistic as hoping Kunitz will be gone.

 

[Ugene Magic]

We all (mostly) understand he sucks.

What we don't understand is how he continues to find his way back into the top six.

It's beyond bizarre at this point and it's extremely difficult not to discuss things that are... bizarre as hell.

I think the overall point is we are not your personal Physiatrists.

Those people get paid to listen to crazy people mumbling the same stuff over and over.

 

[Dmv]

Most of the team's posession #s were pretty ugly. Crosby had a 33% CF which is the lowest I can recall seeing him with for a while. Maybe Kadri's just a god at shutting down generational talents but Sid wasn't great yesterday either.

 

[ColePens]

A double minor turns into a full 2 minute 5 on 3... and we get 1 shot on net.

BUT FLEURY.

Sid and Kessel were getting their due hate for this game. The whole 5 on 3 was a ****ing disaster. I've seen practices with more intensity. They literally looked like they were in camp running some 5 on 3s just for the basic idea. I cannot believe they couldn't smell blood on that 5 on 3. It was mostly Geno/Kessel/Sid, too. They just stood there thinking the Leafs should just move aside. No movement, no focus, no urgency. That was the difference between one and two points.

That was Kessel's worst game in a very long time. I don't worry about it because he dominates when it matters the most. That was an absolute stinker, though.

And MAF gets **** on because he needs to find a way to get us 2 there. He gave up a goal that wouldn't have happened if he wasn't flopping all around. I'd rather him stand his ground and see if he can come up with a save.

 

[Tender Rip]

We just scored a metric ton of goals in the six games leading into these OT losses. Then a hot goalie stopped us, with a back to back game following with two completely new D-pairs and some below par performances from Sid and Sully. Probably not the time to change things up much (except to get Kunitz out of there or at least away from the top6 again.

And yes, I'd like Guentzel back also, but we almost have to deal Kunitz or Fehr for that to happen - absent injuries.

 

[PensPlz]

I like how this is the defense of Fleury supporters, Fleury didn't have his own issues because something else was worse. Fleury played very well tonight and only had the OT gaffe, but pointing out the PP also sucks is just deflecting away from Fleury's issues.

I also kinda forgot Murray played in this game, he didn't look all that sharp when he was in net IIRC. That's what playing as much as he has will do to you though. I wonder who the Penguins will go with to play on Tuesday, both Murray and Fleury had very good games this weekend despite losing.

I'm not a Fleury supporter. I just find it comical, and a little sad, that some people just hate the guy so much (almost personally at this point) that they completely ignore much LARGER issues because they simply blame the loss on Fleury and walk away feeling good about themselves - when in reality this was one of his best games since last season.

Fleury was the reason we made it OT to begin with. He stopped a **** ton of shots tonight and a ton of scoring chances from the Leafs (20 was it?), while our offense went to sleep and played like absolute garbage. To sit here and "lol gaff" after a horrible turnover that lead to a 2 - 0 in the OT (that even if Fleury stayed in the net he probably would have been beat anyways) gives free passes to some players that played really horrible games.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Those people get paid to listen to crazy people

In that case you owe me a hell of a lot of money...

I accept PayPal for easy payment.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You just knew the Pens were going to lose when they failed to do anything on that 5 on 3. It was the same gut feeling in the LA game last night, when the Pens had the first 4 PPs or whatever and didn't put LA away. You just knew it would come back to bite them.

Also, Fleury played well, but you couldn't find more typical "Fleury" goals" than the two he let in tonight. Weird unlucky bounce that pops up over a lunging forward Fleury, and Fleury diving out of his net for ... only he knows why. I mean, the goals he lets in are comical at this point. Even in games where he was strong (like tonight), he lets in Fleury specials.

Maybe I'm focusing too much on his errors, but Pouliot had a rough night tonight. The term "not hard enough on the puck" comes to mind to describe some of his miscues tonight. I'm also not seeing the elite level offensive ability he's supposed to have. I was expecting glimpses of Gostisbehere-like ability with the puck, but I'm not seeing it.

Oh, and **** off with Kunitz back in the top six. Seriously, this organization's obsession with playing him in prominent roles is just weird at this point.

 

[PensandCaps]

If ya guys don't mind, could you give a rundown of your view on the Leafs players you liked/were surprised by, or thought were bad this game?

polak is still awful

not suprised by him at all, but marner was the leafs best forward imo.

 

[Bart9349]

I was hoping that Kessel would have had a good game tonight. That would have silenced some of his critics from the Toronto media as well as some of the boo birds heard at the game tonight.

Unfortunately, it was not meant to be.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I was hoping that Kessel would have had a good game tonight. That would have silenced some of his critics from the Toronto media as well as some of the boo birds heard at the game tonight.

Unfortunately, it was not meant to be.

Phil definitely had a weak game, but with regards to the bolded -- if he hasn't silenced his critics after the playoffs he just had, there's literally nothing he can ever do to silence them.

 

[CertifiedLurker]

Phil definitely had a weak game, but with regards to the bolded -- if he hasn't silenced his critics after the playoffs he just had, there's literally nothing he can ever do to silence them.

Yeah I mean... it's over, he won the cup and was runner up in the CS votes, its not even about silencing critics, they've been silenced. I don't think having a great game against 8th in the Atlantic is going to change anything.

Also with regards to Kessel's bad game, yeah it wasn't good and definitely frustrating but all that said he still had 10 individual shot attempts, 5 shots on goal and a post. I've definitely seen worse. He looked a bit lethargic at times, but I felt that way about most of the team tonight anyway.

 

[Riptide]

Sully's take away from this one will be to bench Pouliot. Book it.

EDIT: Pokecheck. Just shoot me now.

A) Why? It's not his fault the ****ing ref couldn't get out of the way
B) Even if that was his inclination, who would he put in instead? Oleskey played 14 minutes to DP's 19+. There's no way that DP would be the guy coming out.

 

[Riptide]

Played two horrible games...total of one goal and still get 2 points out of it. Can't complain about that.

Exactly. Pretty damn hard to win games when you're only scoring one goal. And the fact that we managed to get 2 points out of those two games is pretty damn impressive.