Post-Game Talk: Leafs 2, Pens 1 (OT): **** Off Sully

[orby]

I'm not surprised they can't score without letang in the lineup. This always happens.

 

[Will Hunting]

The bolded is ridiculous. People were saying the same **** about Hornqvist all last year. Sid's problem last night was that Sid was playing like crap.

Neal is no doubt a better finisher than Hornqvist, but Neal is also a dumb player who takes stupid, selfish penalties. Nevermind the fact that Hornqvist is a menace in front of the net, which is being totally ignored.

For all of the criticism, Hornqvist's screen last night caused the goaltender to lose track of the puck which gave Geno an open net yet nobody mentions that. Do you think possibly that Crosby has been able to score so many goals this year because Hornqvist is such a handful in front of the net that it makes it easier for Crosby to establish position in front of the net for deflections and rebounds?

It seems to me that these pro-Neal posters amplify Hornqvist's every shortcoming while ignoring the fact that Neal has quite a few shortcomings himself.

Crosby´s goals 5 on 5 are mostly the result of individual skill. Re-watch them. They have very little to do with Hornqvist. This criticism to Hornqvist might be a bit unfair, but I am just getting really tired of Sid being cheated here over and over again and not having a chance to play with a really good player. I really want him being tried with Kessel. Like really badly. But Hornqvist would be USELESS elsewhere, like totally useless. So what can we do now?? Sid + Kessel AND Geno + Neal VS what we have now... NOT EVEN CLOSE. Not to mention that our PP would be so much better with Neal´s shot as well. Sid is a capable net-front presence in that case. Instead, our PP sucks now.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Crosby´s goals 5 on 5 are mostly the result of individual skill. Re-watch them. They have very little to do with Hornqvist. This criticism to Hornqvist might be a bit unfair, but I am just getting really tired of Sid being cheated here over and over again and not having a chance to play with a really good player. I really want him being tried with Kessel. Like really badly. But Hornqvist would be USELESS elsewhere, like totally useless. So what can we do now?? Sid + Kessel AND Geno + Neal VS what we have now... NOT EVEN CLOSE. Not to mention that our PP would be so much better with Neal´s shot as well. Sid is a capable net-front presence in that case. Instead, our PP sucks now.

You are pretty much confirming what I said. Exaggerate Hornqvist's weaknesses, ignore Neal's.

Who plays in front of the net if you swap Neal and Hornqvist? Crosby would be the only player in the top 6 capable of creating traffic. The team would get shutdown in the playoffs by any capable defensive team.

You are viewing Neal through rose-colored glasses. Both him and Horny are 1 dimensional. As it happens, the dimension Horny excels at is a skill the Penguins need in their lineup.

This is just business as usual. Hornqvist has had a very good career as a pen and still every rough stretch people are making posts about how much better they would be if they still had Neal. It's comical at this point.

 

[Ugene Magic]

You are pretty much confirming what I said. Exaggerate Hornqvist's weaknesses, ignore Neal's.

Who plays in front of the net if you swap Neal and Hornqvist? Crosby would be the only player in the top 6 capable of creating traffic. The team would get shutdown in the playoffs by any capable defensive team.

You are viewing Neal through rose-colored glasses. Both him and Horny are 1 dimensional. As it happens, the dimension Horny excels at is a skill the Penguins need in their lineup.

This is just business as usual. Hornqvist has had a very good career as a pen and still every rough stretch people are making posts about how much better they would be if they still had Neal. It's comical at this point.

Hornqvist just has to do more. It's not as if he hasn't, he just isn't right now.

Some of it could also be concentrating too much on being a net front presence. He needs to balance that out. Always being on top of the goalie certainly helps others more then himself. I'd like to see him perch himself in front just past the crease and face the goalie some and be a bit quicker on some of those rebounds.

You know who was good at that?

Stevens. They were set plays where he would have his stick down and Mario would send in shot passes. It's sad Sid has to be that guy who knows what to do in front of the net.

It's not just Hornqvist who does that, also Kunitz. Just standing their waiting for shots looking out then in giving a target.

 

[Ogrezilla]

A) Why? It's not his fault the ****ing ref couldn't get out of the way
B) Even if that was his inclination, who would he put in instead? Oleskey played 14 minutes to DP's 19+. There's no way that DP would be the guy coming out.

I don't expect him to be benched, so I do agree with that part. But yes, that play was DPs fault. He overskated the puck and was fumbling to recover it when it hit the ref. If he just carries it cleanly the ref wouldn't have been an issue at all.

 

[end]

We don't win the Cup last year with Neal as opposed to Hornqvist. Hornqvist doesn't have Neal's shot, but he's a far better two way player and he's chippy and taxing rather than Neal who was the emblem of undisciplined fake toughness that made the 2013 team lose.

I understand our top pairing is hurt but how do you put a defenseman with 60 games NHL experience out on a 3v3?

 

[Ogrezilla]

We don't win the Cup last year with Neal as opposed to Hornqvist. Hornqvist doesn't have Neal's shot, but he's a far better two way player and he's chippy and taxing rather than Neal who was the emblem of undisciplined fake toughness that made the 2013 team lose.

I agree with your first sentence, but I actually wouldn't call Horny a significantly better two-way player. It's certainly not a strength of either. The rest I agree with.

I understand our top pairing is hurt but how do you put a defenseman with 60 games NHL experience out on a 3v3?

In theory, it should fit his skillset very well. But then he couldn't stickhandle a puck all by himself and ran it into a ref

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yep. I'm surprised that hardly anyone is mentioning the forwards.

Complete dumpster fire of a game.

This has big implications to how Toronto played.

They were physical and they had the master obstruction teacher teaching them.

A lot of it was too far, the refs held onto their whistles, and it being in Toronto had a bit to do with it.

I wouldn't use this game in particular to totally slam the forwards, but I'm sure in the same light teams are supposed to just fight through such play.

The Pens did to a tie and earned a point.

That's a win on the road.

I'd be a bit more harsh for the game against LA. who was playing their 2nd game of back to backs. That game should be where they impose themselves and got the same treatment.

To top it off, I'm not sure teams have been playing the Pens like these two past games all that much, which is surprising since they are the defending cup champs.

These two games have very much been like playoff games.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I understand our top pairing is hurt but how do you put a defenseman with 60 games NHL experience out on a 3v3?

Because Pouliot was our 2nd best defenseman last night and every other defenseman outside of Maatta was a trainwreck. I don't think an OT gaffe changes anything about how Pouliot played or how playing him in OT makes sense.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Because Pouliot was our 2nd best defenseman last night and every other defenseman outside of Maatta was a trainwreck. I don't think an OT gaffe changes anything about how Pouliot played or how playing him in OT makes sense.

Yep. It wasn't even the D-men put out there that was confusing. I know Sheary has been good, but he backed off and gave ground totally messing up their possession.

I have more issue with Kessel not being out there with Sid or Geno.

Trying to do home run type of scenario's.

Schultz or Pouliot are who you needed out there of whom was left. Otherwise without injury it is Letang and Daley with their speed in OT.

 

[Shrimper]

The sooner Kunitz goes the better

 

[LunaticFringe]

It's not on any one person. We didn't play well as a team and deserved to lose. They were definetly tired and Daley and Letang being out did not help.

Please all of you with this mindset STOP IT! Since KL and TD have been out of the lineup the Pens D has given up ONE regulation goal! And this includes a period of time against LA where they were down to 4 dmen for an extended period of time.

What do ya'll expect a shutout every game?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Wait and see how they perform on Tuesday with a couple days' rest.

 

[orby]

[/B]

Please all of you with this mindset STOP IT! Since KL and TD have been out of the lineup the Pens D has given up ONE regulation goal! And this includes a period of time against LA where they were down to 4 dmen for an extended period of time.

What do ya'll expect a shutout every game?

It's not the defense that suffered, it's the offense. Letang drives the pens offense at even strength and has, like, forever

 

[Will Hunting]

Because Pouliot was our 2nd best defenseman last night and every other defenseman outside of Maatta was a trainwreck. I don't think an OT gaffe changes anything about how Pouliot played or how playing him in OT makes sense.

I know about your bias towards Pouliot and Maatta, but for ****ing sake, at least try to be objective to the others.. So, Schultz was a trainwreck last night??? My god..

 

[EliteGoaltending]

I didn't think the D as a whole were too bad yesterday. Maatta was our best player. Dumoulin and Oleksy had their moments I guess, but Oleksy is not a regular and Dumoulin is forced to play on his off-side. I refuse to blame our D for last night, our main problem was getting our forwards to effectively enter the zone. Letang and Daley do have a factor in that, but still, it reminded me of the Johnston era. I would be able to evaluate this D better if Sid wasn't lazy, Kunitz wasn't Kunitz and Kessel didn't have his worst game as a Penguin. I only see it as a temporary problem.

Sully's decisions may be a factor too. May not be a temporary problem.

I thought the D was one big mess yesterday tbh. Agree about Maatta. I think he was our best Dman, defensively, and Schultz - offensively. But all the pairings were a mess.
In theory, we have Dman who can step up in Letang's absence, but in reality they don't do it. Even earlier this season when Letang was out for 5 or so games, top pairing was Dumo-Daley, but they weren't looking like a top pairing and the team was struggling without Letang (aside from the PP where Schultz replaced him and looked good, even though he had trouble to get his shot on net). Same story now.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

[/B]

Please all of you with this mindset STOP IT! Since KL and TD have been out of the lineup the Pens D has given up ONE regulation goal! And this includes a period of time against LA where they were down to 4 dmen for an extended period of time.

What do ya'll expect a shutout every game?

Defensemen have an influence on the offense, as well as forwards have an influence on the defense (team defense).
D's ability to quickly move the puck out of d-zone and in transition has a big influence on the offence. As well as helping to keep the puck in o-zone and helping on an offensive blue line and in o-zone, in general.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's not the defense that suffered, it's the offense. Letang drives the pens offense at even strength and has, like, forever

He's a dynamic defenseman and we're obviously going to miss him, but he's hardly the only variable here. We also lost Daley, and had our 4th game in 6 days.

Let's see how we do when we whittle those variables down.

 

[Penske]

It's not the defense that suffered, it's the offense. Letang drives the pens offense at even strength and has, like, forever

Yeah this was what I was implying. Over the years we have more trouble with Letang out of the line more than anyone else for this reason.

 

[Will Hunting]

He's a dynamic defenseman and we're obviously going to miss him, but he's hardly the only variable here. We also lost Daley, and had our 4th game in 6 days.

Let's see how we do when we whittle those variables down.

Yeah, that´s why I am not overly critical about overall game. There were some factors coming into the game that signalized problems. And it happened and it´s understandable and forgivable imo. What´s not forgivable is that 5 on 3 powerplay, or the performance of Kessel last night. Not sure what was more brutal.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

Yeah this was what I was implying. Over the years we have more trouble with Letang out of the line more than anyone else for this reason.

It's because they're relying on Letang too much.
Too weak of a D corp without him and it have been that way for years.

If no. 2 and no. 3 dman could step up in his absence, it would be less of an issue. But here we are.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah, that´s why I am not overly critical about overall game. There were some factors coming into the game that signalized problems. And it happened and it´s understandable and forgivable imo. What´s not forgivable is that 5 on 3 powerplay, or the performance of Kessel last night. Not sure what was more brutal.

That 5 on 3 was more of them not moving the puck fast enough and guys down low standing still. Plus Toronto squeezed the box/triangle tight.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I'm actually surprised that we actually managed to make it to OT when we were missing Letang and Daley and that Kessel and Sid had such bad games.

 

[hooverdam]

I still don't understand why they moved Dumoulin over to the right side when he's never played there and Pouliot has. Just asinine. Dumoulin has struggled this year, the answer isn't to take him out of his comfort zone and make him play a position he's never played before.

Their refusal to break up Cole and Schultz is also weird and has had a bad ripple effect on the rest of the D pairings. Try Schultz and Dumoulin in their natural spots. Try Maatta and Pouliot again. Let Cole and Oleksy be a shutdown pairing for as much mileage as you can get out of Oleksy (which won't be much) and then call up Warsofsky and give him a shot there. It's like they try to make the D pairings as uncomfortable and unnatural as possible sometimes.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Really fun game to watch. Sucks we couldn't score more than 1g in 2 games.

Really annoying to see this end of the world whining mentailty after a loss. Apperently "everyone is a train wreck. Sullivan should "**** off". Horny and Fleury are trash."

Sometimes it feels like Pens fans are literally the worst fans on HFB.

Pens won 7 in a row then lost 2 OT games. They're in 1st place. It's a long season. Losses will happen. Pens are no worse right now than they were a week ago.