News Article: Leafs #2 in new ESPN Prospect Rankings!

[achtungbaby]

Leafs have made significant improvement in the prospect pool since Shanny has arrived without question as he inherited a bottom 5 one from previous management.

Even last year with Nylander and the 2014 draft class the Hockey News ranking based on polling 10 NHL amateur scouts and execs blended opinions ranked the Leafs 27th overall in the Future Watch Edition (April 2015).

Adding Marner, Dermott, Bracco in the draft and Kapanen and Harrington in trade (Kessel) will boost that team ranking up.

Pronman's #2 Leafs ranking moving up from his previous #17 ranking seems done more for shock and awe purposes, to draw and increase viewership to himself and ESPN, by his list based on Leaf Nation size. This ESPN insider report is behind a paywall and so catering to the biggest fan base is for a not so hidden agenda to increase customers to their site.

How can teams like Buffalo and Winnipeg previously ranked top 5 get passed by the Leafs, particularly Sabres by adding Eichel and Jets adding 2 X top 25 picks 1st round picks in the draft to a ranking that was already near the very top?.

Agreed. It's nice and all, but it doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

While I don't think we've got a better prospect group than Buffalo or Winnipeg, I'm glad to have Dermott,Bracco,Nylander,Kapanen,Marner etc. It's a good group. My only complaint is the lack of goaltending.

 

[darrylsittler27]

True dat...

While I don't think we've got a better prospect group than Buffalo or Winnipeg, I'm glad to have Dermott,Bracco,Nylander,Kapanen,Marner etc. It's a good group. My only complaint is the lack of goaltending.

As much as I approve of certain things, they leave themselves open on the goaltending front. "We are happy with what we have" scares me. Goaltenders win series all by themselves. The skill is coming along nicely but the negligence of goaltending ( takes time to develop), I dont see a pipestream there and it may be the archilles heal. Thank God Lou is here.

 

[Mats13]

Personally, I always thought the Jets are WAY over rated.

I would take the Leafs current prospect list, over the Jets, any and everyday.

They are, prospect depth is so overrated on Hf.

I mean how many of their prospects will actually make the NHL? And what impact will they have?

Like I'd rather have one Marner caliber prospects than 5 Armia/Kosmachuck level prospects.

Sure they MAY (depth is beyond unpredicatable, they're all shots in the dark right now) produce more NHLers in 5 years, but we will produce the BETTER NHLers.

And as everyone says, quality > quantity.

This article gave me a good laugh.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=776196

I saw that earlier, saw Kapanen at #2 and immediately clicked out.

But hey, if that guy turns out to be right, we have 3 top 10 prospects

 

[34]

No way they are #2. They have nothing other than Marner.

 

[Pholus]

Naturally Nylander has amazed sine the draft so Kapanen has some catching up to do.
But you never know ... Kapanen could be great.

Oh, I agree. I think Kapanen could develop into a top line winger (especially if he gets to play with a Nylander/Marner as his center). But to think that right now he is a better prospect than Nylander is ridiculous based on the season both just had.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

“If you think that Buffalo is coming out of the bottom(of the league) right now and trending towards the top, I think Toronto is still trending towards the bottom.†Pronman said. “They’re not going to be a very good team this year, they’re likely going to get another top pick. You get one more of those and then you start looking at an organization (that in) one-to-two years that start trying to win again.â€

We will see if Pronman is right or wrong. But I have said this before, I do not value his opinion much.

 

[Regsauceleafs]

No way they are #2. They have nothing other than Marner.

Are you serious right now? Lol so that means 25 teams in the NHL have nothing? Nylander and kapanen being your #2 and #3 prospects is golden. Tons of depth with low risk guys like Percy, brown, Harrington, dermott and some huge ceilings with johnson, bracco timashov, korostelev

 

[hullsy47]

Oh, I agree. I think Kapanen could develop into a top line winger (especially if he gets to play with a Nylander/Marner as his center). But to think that right now he is a better prospect than Nylander is ridiculous based on the season both just had.

some scouts think coming to toronto will be the best thing ever happen to kapanen ,he ll learn to play a full game and hes not afraid to cut to the net ..
people act like he was a throw in ...lol
he might not score fifty .....but skilled players that can skate wi in the playoffs ,thats the goal ,only way u can play i babcocks system is be able to think and be able to skate .
the rest falls into place ,i live in the detroit market ,if babcock had chicago's talent detroit would have been montreal 70's dynasty scary ,,,,be happy we have some good young skill the rest will fall into place

 

[Mess]

Pronman loves skill and his rankings reflect that for the Leafs based on having drafted and traded for that component recently.

However the one thing that is missing from this ranking is the reality factor because what this group has in skill they do lack in size.

I personally could not see a Leafs team actually icing the prospects ranked here as a group together. All smaller, highly skilled but not physical nor with size and strength to compete against other NHL teams.

Kapanen -- Marner --- Bracco
Brown ---- Nylander -- Leipsic

Other prospect pools that have high-end skilled forwards + defenseman + goalies also are going to have a higher success rate of those players actually making an impact on their teams because of diversity not only in style of player but also position.

Case in point Winnipeg.

The have 3 players Nic Petan, C (#25), Josh Morrissey, D (#32), Adam Comrie, G .... All 3 members of Team Canada WJC gold medal team. Then they have Nikolaj Ehlers, LW (#9), Kyle Connor, LW (#30), Jack Roslovic, RW (#90) & Connor Hellebuyck, G (#60) who was starting goalie team USA at last World Championships.

So they not only have diversity in skill but size and style of prospect + also and most important at all key positions as well.

 

[RoadWarrior]

No way they are #2. They have nothing other than Marner.

Nylander says hi

 

[Turk Broda]

No way they are #2. They have nothing other than Marner.

Nylander is considered 'nothing'???

I'll admit there is a significant drop off after Marner and Nylander, but still a number of solid depth prospects and a couple of high ceiling, low probability guys in our group. But to say we have nothing other than Marner is extreme. I also expect us to have a few more solid prospects after next years draft, particularly with our two first round picks.

 

[highslot]

i don't think there is a drastic falloff after nylander.

imo

bracco and kapanen have the potential to be top six

bibeau has potential to be a 1b.

brown, johnson, toninato, gauthier should make the nhl as tweeners.

valiev could be d2.

percy, dermott, harrington, loov should make second to third pairing. i'd rate percy higher than gunnarson, who played top pairing.

if dzierkals or timashov reach their potential they could be top 6 but are boom/bust.

 

[Purity*]

Pronman loves skill and his rankings reflect that for the Leafs based on having drafted and traded for that component recently.

However the one thing that is missing from this ranking is the reality factor because what this group has in skill they do lack in size.

I personally could not see a Leafs team actually icing the prospects ranked here as a group together. All smaller, highly skilled but not physical nor with size and strength to compete against other NHL teams.

Kapanen -- Marner --- Bracco
Brown ---- Nylander -- Leipsic

Other prospect pools that have high-end skilled forwards + defenseman + goalies also are going to have a higher success rate of those players actually making an impact on their teams because of diversity not only in style of player but also position.

Case in point Winnipeg.

The have 3 players Nic Petan, C (#25), Josh Morrissey, D (#32), Adam Comrie, G .... All 3 members of Team Canada WJC gold medal team. Then they have Nikolaj Ehlers, LW (#9), Kyle Connor, LW (#30), Jack Roslovic, RW (#90) & Connor Hellebuyck, G (#60) who was starting goalie team USA at last World Championships.

So they not only have diversity in skill but size and style of prospect + also and most important at all key positions as well.

What's funny is that 2 of the smallest teams in each respective conference were in the cup finals. Tampa's triplet line (one of the smallest lines in the league) was the highest scoring line in the league and was dominating the playoffs up until TJ's injury.

I would much rather have a prospect pool with speed and skill than size.

 

[Szymonmf]

- Leafs drafted Bracco #61 in the past draft after most teams passed on him multiple times in the draft.
&
- Pronman has him as the #39 best prospect overall in his blog.

- Bracco's actual draft position was based on NHL teams scouts and professionally employed scouts in the industry.
&
- Pronman's ranking based on a blogger and non scouts opinion.

Mark Hunter drafted Travis Dermott #34 overall and Jeremy Bracco #61 in 2015 and therefore he doesn't believe Bracco is a better NHL prospect or the draft order would have been reversed. Yet Pronman by ranking Bracco #39 overall and Dermott unranked seems to suggest he knows more about scouting and prospect evaluation then Leafs own Director a Amateur Scouting.

You can see why this ranking based on a blogger's opinion wouldn't be the same as actual NHL scouts but it does help explain the Leafs ranking.

Pronman is widely respected by many hockey insiders and "critics". He doesn't base his opinions based on other blogs but on actual scouting reports/scouts opinions while watching many games. Braccoo was passed over multiple times because of his size. It doesn't necessarily mean that leafs we're higher on dermott then bracco, they just believed he'd still be available at the 61 spot.
They traded down because they didn't see much difference between the late first round and the 2nd round

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Pronman is widely respected by many hockey insiders and "critics". He doesn't base his opinions based on other blogs but on actual scouting reports/scouts opinions while watching many games. Braccoo was passed over multiple times because of his size. It doesn't necessarily mean that leafs we're higher on dermott then bracco, they just believed he'd still be available at the 61 spot.
They traded down because they didn't see much difference between the late first round and the 2nd round

I swear, for the numbers Bracco puts up, he might be the wolds most under rated player. Only Two Americans scored at a faster pace.... Kane, and Kessel.... that is some pretty elite company, and he is well ahead of some HOFers were at his age.

 

[Mess]

Pronman is widely respected by many hockey insiders and "critics". He doesn't base his opinions based on other blogs but on actual scouting reports/scouts opinions while watching many games. Braccoo was passed over multiple times because of his size. It doesn't necessarily mean that leafs we're higher on dermott then bracco, they just believed he'd still be available at the 61 spot.
They traded down because they didn't see much difference between the late first round and the 2nd round

Pronman is a blogger and not employed by and NHL team but think he knows more than all NHL team amateur scouts in his rankings.

Case in point ..

Minnesota drafts Joel Eriksson Ek #20th overall and Pronman ranks him #94 overall on his top 100 list while all teams pass multiple times on Bracco and he falls to #61 in the draft but Pronman has him as the #39th best prospect overall.

So not only does he have Bracco +22 spots higher than he was actually drafted in 2015 but +52 spots higher than a player actually drafted and ranked in the 1st round as my Eriksson Ek example (just one of many I could have given). To me that shows there is something badly wrong with his logic.

Or say Leafs scouting guru Mark Hunter drafts Travis Dermott #34 overall and Bracco #61 overall clearly believing Dermott is the better prospect. Yet on Pronman's list Dermott isn't even in his top 100, while Bracco #39th best including all prospects not just last year. Doesn't that suggest Pronman thinks he knows better than Mark Hunter does?

My advice is Pronman better not quit is day job as you can see why he is a blogger and not an NHL scout.

 

[Primary Assist]

I swear, for the numbers Bracco puts up, he might be the wolds most under rated player. Only Two Americans scored at a faster pace.... Kane, and Kessel.... that is some pretty elite company, and he is well ahead of some HOFers were at his age.

What numbers are these? And I'm certain Jack Eichel outproduced him.

 

[Purity*]

Pronman is a blogger and not employed by and NHL team but think he knows more than all NHL team amateur scouts in his rankings.

Case in point ..

Minnesota drafts Joel Eriksson Ek #20th overall and Pronman ranks him #94 overall on his top 100 list while all teams pass multiple times on Bracco and he falls to #61 in the draft but Pronman has his as the #39th best prospect overall.

So not only does he have +22 spots than he was actually drafted by +52 spots higher than a player actually drafted in the 1st round as my Eriksson Ek example. To me that shows there is something badly wrong with his logic.

Or say Leafs scouting guru Mark Hunter drafts Travis Dermott #34 overall and Bracco #61 overall clearly believing Dermott is the better prospect. Yet on Pronman's list Dermott isn't even in his top 100, while Bracco #39th best including all prospects not just last year. Doesn't that suggest Pronman thinks he knows better than Mark Hunter does?

My advice is Pronman better not quit is day job as you can see why he is a blogger and not an NHL scout.

Uhh because every scout is different and holds different aspects in different regards?

I'm not sure if this post is a sleight against Pronman or the Leafs prospects.

 

[IBeL34f]

Do people here still really believe that holding a differing opinion means you think you're smarter than someone you disagree with?

 

[Joey Hoser]

My only complaint is the lack of goaltending.

Unless you have a super high goalie pick like Price or Rask were, goalie prospects are kinda all the same as far as I'm concerned. You never know until they make it, and even then often still don't know for a few more years.

 

[Primary Assist]

Do people here still really believe that holding a differing opinion means you think you're smarter than someone you disagree with?

No thats stupid




.............

 

[Commander Clueless]

Given where our team ranks in the projected standings, I can hardly give them credit.


Still, it is really nice to see that we're getting some promising young talent....enough that it's being recognized. Hopefully a sign of good things to come.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

What numbers are these? And I'm certain Jack Eichel outproduced him.

USNTDP

Bracco 168 points (119 games)

Eichel 139 points (111 games)


Eichel is the better player, and played at a higher level than Bracco last year. Basically, a full year ahead of Bracco, but Bracco is still very impressive. Eichel is super special.

 

[Primary Assist]

USNTDP

Bracco 168 points (119 games)

Eichel 139 points (111 games)

Ah thank you, sorry about that. I just checked HockeyDB and they only had his tournament statistics.