Post-Game Talk: Leafs 1:0 Oilers. Who needs Kris Russell when you have McElhinney?

[ULF_55]

mcdavid plays double the minutes mathews does

LOL

Are you saying he's so fast he defies time ... and plays 37 minutes a game?

 

[Raging Bull]

Can’t believe the difference in defending leads this year compared to last. Have we lost a game yet where we’ve had the lead going into the third period?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Can’t believe the difference in defending leads this year compared to last. Have we lost a game yet where we’ve had the lead going into the third period?

I believe the answer to that is no, we haven't.

People were freaking out at losing leads last season. The truth is, there was no reason to think we would keep doing so, just as there was no reason to think that we would keep losing in shootouts etc.

 

[paul pearce]

LOL

Are you saying he's so fast he defies time ... and plays 37 minutes a game?

yes lol

 

[kyle n00bas]

Can’t believe the difference in defending leads this year compared to last. Have we lost a game yet where we’ve had the lead going into the third period?

2016-17
Win % when leading after 1: 0.71
Win % when leading after 2: 0.75
Win % when trailing after 1: 0.13
Win % when trailing after 2: 0.11

2017-18
Win % when leading after 1: 0.83
Win % when leading after 2: 1.00
Win % when trailing after 1: 0.22
Win % when trailing after 2: 0.09

Our continuing inability to climb back into games once we're down is concerning, but we've definitely improved at closing games out. 12-0-0 when leading after 40 minutes so far.

Funny how our reputation is that of a high-flying offense that's never out of a game but has trouble buttoning things down defensively. If anything, our biggest issue has been that we're too easy to button it down defensively against. Not one team in the league was worse than us at mounting a comeback last year.

 

[ULF_55]

Should note that these historical accomplishments should be put into context - winning games is easier now than it used to be. We have won some games where we were tied after 60 minutes of regulation, those used to go in the books as ties.

As much as I love watching 3 on hockey, it's still a bad way to decide games IMO. Not as idiotic as shootouts but bad nevertheless.

Yes, the comparison should be regulation wins to be accurate, but still they have a nice record.

Can you imagine how the Habs felt when they were losing less than a dozen games a year in the mid-late 70's.

I remember being a Leafs fan and knowing that it didn't matter how good the Leafs were they were going to be 2nd. class. Okay with Ballard 2nd. class was probably as good as it was going to get.

 

[Jmo89]

Missed the game ... just watched the McDavid highlights on TSN.

Wow, if the Leafs played the Oilers even, as some are suggesting based on some stats, I'd like to see the highlight reel from Brossoit. Oilers were concerned about losing their starter but Brossoit must be making him irrelevant.

The game wasn't equal IMO but it also wasn't as lopsided as the shots and highlights suggest.

Edmonton hit 4 posts, Toronto hit 2.

Edmonton had 4 power plays, Toronto had 2. Edmonton also had a full 2 minute 5 on 3, while Toronto had one for about a minute.

Toronto had the better 1st, Edmonton had the better 2nd.

The 3rd was pretty even for the first 10 minutes (minus the Edmonton pp) and Edmonton controlled the flow for the last 10 lead by Mcdavid.

Though aside from the mcdavid crossbar and KR missing the open net most of their chances were to the outside.

Toronto played like a team with a lead while Edmonton played like a desperate one.

Honestly, the game reminded me alot of the Leafs from a few years ago where they would outshoot an opponent and go into desperation mode late, but in reverse.

There have been some concerning wins this season where the team won largely because of Andersen.

McBackup played great but I really didn't find this win all that concerning. Especially on a back to back and down Matthews.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes, the comparison should be regulation wins to be accurate, but still they have a nice record.

Can you imagine how the Habs felt when they were losing less than a dozen games a year in the mid-late 70's.

I remember being a Leafs fan and knowing that it didn't matter how good the Leafs were they were going to be 2nd. class. Okay with Ballard 2nd. class was probably as good as it was going to get.

Yes we have a nice record, in fact it's so good that there's no need to make it sound better than it is. And records in early December are pretty meaningless anyway.

I was around when the Habs lost only 8 games out of 80 all season and only one of those was at home. It still seems unreal.

 

[therealkoho]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It’s nothing personal. I’m just sick of the “Babs can do no wrong/no player needs to be criticized” crowd. Sure we complain a lot for fans of a team that just got their 20th win in 31 games, but that doesn’t mean everything is perfect.

no one has ever said Babs was perfect and could do no wrong, that said can you explain to me why Nylander is playing the 4th line, I would bet you cannot and I'd even give you three tries at it, as for your first guess that somehow Babs is incompetent and you just know better would be as wrong as you can get, and that seems to be the overwhelming tone of the prevailing criticism

I would put money on it that there isn't one person on the site that could coach a JrA team let alone an NHL team, however once you do, you may have earned the right to criticize another professional coach, but guess what? they do not ever criticize each other, unless you're Paddy Roy which is why he's out of the club forever. You can criticize all you want but when you don't have it right, then it's all just annoying horsepuckey

Criticizing players is much the same but a little different, for one this media inspired Polak hysteria is stupid beyond belief, case in point the 2nd Vancouver goal last Saturday, so many people all took up the same torch that somehow Roman screened Andersen and was "to blame" for that goal and because of that the loss was on him. Watch it again and then watch it again, there are 5 guys on the ice two of whom are out of position and Polak wasn't one of them, and who did not in fact "SCREEN" Andy.

so criticism of players when fair is acceptable, when the criticism does not reflect what really happened it's silly and immature

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>p>

2 pts is two points no matter how you write it, put it in your pocket and move forward and enjoy the season with all it's warts

Positive thought we played the NHL's best two players back to back and held them to one goal, no matter how it was done is an accomplishment in itself

GO LEAFS

 

[Jmo89]

Yes we have a nice record, in fact it's so good that there's no need to make it sound better than it is. And records in early December are pretty meaningless anyway.

I was around when the Habs lost only 8 games out of 80 all season and only one of those was at home. It still seems unreal.

As a Leafs fan I don't feel comfortable until there is a little x beside them on the standings.

It takes one bad losing streak to be fighting with Boston and Montreal for 3rd in the division.

I agree though, I'm happy with their current record and hope they iron out some kinks in their game.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The game wasn't equal IMO but it also wasn't as lopsided as the shots and highlights suggest.

Edmonton hit 4 posts, Toronto hit 2.

Edmonton had 4 power plays, Toronto had 2. Edmonton also had a full 2 minute 5 on 3, while Toronto had one for about a minute.

Toronto had the better 1st, Edmonton had the better 2nd.

The 3rd was pretty even for the first 10 minutes (minus the Edmonton pp) and Edmonton controlled the flow for the last 10 lead by Mcdavid.

Though aside from the mcdavid crossbar and KR missing the open net most of their chances were to the outside.

Toronto played like a team with a lead while Edmonton played like a desperate one.

Honestly, the game reminded me alot of the Leafs from a few years ago where they would outshoot an opponent and go into desperation mode late, but in reverse.

There have been some concerning wins this season where the team won largely because of Andersen.

McBackup played great but I really didn't find this win all that concerning. Especially on a back to back and down Matthews.

To be fair, EDM was also on a back to back but other than that, this is some good perspective IMO. When I think of this game what I remember most is that sound the puck makes when it clangs off our posts (and McDavid's breakaway) but yeah, it wasn't as bad as it may seem.

And honestly, goaltending is part of the game so it's OK that they win it for us at times. At the start of the season our goalies sucked and cost us some games, it's just evening out now is all. Our goaltending is top 10, so is the rest of the team and top 10 is where we are in the standing so everything is as it should be. Let's hope we put it all together at the right time like we did last year and play our best hockey in the spring.

 

[Pi]

To be fair, EDM was also on a back to back but other than that, this is some good perspective IMO. When I think of this game what I remember most is that sound the puck makes when it clangs off our posts (and McDavid's breakaway) but yeah, it wasn't as bad as it may seem.

And honestly, goaltending is part of the game so it's OK that they win it for us at times. At the start of the season our goalies sucked and cost us some games, it's just evening out now is all. Our goaltending is top 10, so is the rest of the team and top 10 is where we are in the standing so everything is as it should be. Let's hope we put it all together at the right time like we did last year and play our best hockey in the spring.

Also, the Oilers as a whole weren't good, McDavid was great.

He was trying his best but the rest of the team was easily handled. Look at the last two mins of play where the Leafs didn't even allow the Oilers the time to get Brossoit out of the net till it was too late.

 

[MJ65]

 

[al secord]

Wonder how effective mcdavid would be as nhl player if you took some of his speed away.

Want to impress me? Do it with your eyes closed!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Also, the Oilers as a whole weren't good, McDavid was great.

He was trying his best but the rest of the team was easily handled. Look at the last two mins of play where the Leafs didn't even allow the Oilers the time to get Brossoit out of the net till it was too late.

LOL yeah, this might be right. Man is McDavid ever good, speaking as a hockey fan, he's such a joy to watch.

 

[Ari91]

Can’t believe the difference in defending leads this year compared to last. Have we lost a game yet where we’ve had the lead going into the third period?

The results are better but they certainly don't make it look easy. They give up zone entry too easily and then quickly fall into formation where they seem to put all of their focus on trying to minimize the opposition's opportunities for high scoring chances. I'd like to see them develop into a team that protects their leads by spending more time in the offensive zone (even if it is to play keep away and not take any shots on net). The third period didn't look pretty at all.

I'd be interested in seeing a map of the shots taken throughout the game. I was multitasking during the game so I didn't see all of the details throughout but I felt like the first two periods were back and forth action where both teams had their chances with presence around the net. saw a lot of comments about the Leafs being really lucky to have won that game and pretty much summed up by the fact that Edmonton hit a lot of posts. That sucks for Edmonton but that's not a marker of the Leafs being lucky. Luck is getting a great bounce that lands on your stick right in front of the net and you get an easy tap in. Luck is getting a crazy bounce by the puck that lets you easily clear your zone. Luck is making a save when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing or where the puck is but a frantic reaction saves yourself a goal. If you keep hitting posts, that means your team can't finish or it means that the goalie was positioned well enough that the post was all that was available for the player when he took the shot. When you get like four powerplays including a full 2 minute 5 on 3 and you can't score a single goal in the game, you can't chalk it all up to being an unlucky loss. That's searching for a moral victory that really counts for nothing. I don't follow the Oilers regularly so I have no idea what's going on with them but even if they aren't the 2nd round playoff team they were last year, I don't think they're the near bottom of the league team they are this year either. Something is amiss there :/

Leafs have a lot of work to do in shoring up their play in third periods with the lead but we've seen this team win in almost every way possible this season and that's a good sign. The best of teams don't dominate every single game but they find ways to grind out wins. If the Leafs want to be considered as part of the upper echelon of teams in the league they'll have to learn how to dominate more games and grind out less games.

 

[therealkoho]

uhmm Andi Petrillo not making it about herself?

 

[Pi]

Wonder how effective mcdavid would be as nhl player if you took some of his speed away.

Why should the fact that he can skate so well be a point against him?

If you takeaway how good Matthews is at stick handling in traffic and along the boards, how good would he be?

McDavid is an electrifying player. Even if you took some of his speed away and he can only skate as good as Phil Kessel for example, he would still be an elite player. His vision is incredible, his ability to make plays at that speed is actually more impressive than the speed itself. There are players who can skate fast but can't do anything with the puck at that speed (Grabner etc) and there are players who can make good plays but can't skate fast. Combine both and you have a playmaking version of Pavel Bure which is McDavid.

 

[Pi]

Missed the game ... just watched the McDavid highlights on TSN.

Wow, if the Leafs played the Oilers even, as some are suggesting based on some stats, I'd like to see the highlight reel from Brossoit. Oilers were concerned about losing their starter but Brossoit must be making him irrelevant.

Brossoit was lucky. Lots of pucks around him that the Leafs simply didn't capitalize on. He looked shaky. McElhinney despite the posts didn't look like he was going to let a puck past him. Lots of second and third chances around Brossoit.

Oilers had so many slap shots from the blue line. It's ridiculous that the Oilers don't understand that slap shots are a dying breed, they don't even create proper rebounds anymore because goalies are so good at deflecting those hard shots away from danger areas or out of play.

Best play is a soft wrister to the net. It's deceptive, you can control it's speed and accuracy. Unless you're Laine/Ovechkin/Stamkos etc just don't use a slapshot. It's a wild shot. Yes, it is ironic that the Leafs scored on a slapshot that was tipped in front of the net but Rielly was shooting many wristers that created much better chances than any slap shot that Klefbom, Russell, Nurse took.

 

[PuckMagi]

Can’t believe the difference in defending leads this year compared to last. Have we lost a game yet where we’ve had the lead going into the third period?

Yes, we are better... but only marginally IMO.

Better goaltending is the biggest reason we have been holding these leads. Also some luck too.

We hardly ever continue to dominate through the 3rd period when we have the lead. We have gone back to our old style of playing only defense and giving up a ton of shots and scoring chances. Yes, we've been more successful this year, but that's due to goaltending, luck, the small sample size, and the fact that we are actually marginally better. We've also been playing some bad teams lately which has helped.

I don't think playing this way in the 3rd against Tampa will be effective.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why should the fact that he can skate so well be a point against him?

If you takeaway how good Matthews is at stick handling in traffic and along the boards, how good would he be?

McDavid is an electrifying player. Even if you took some of his speed away and he can only skate as good as Phil Kessel for example, he would still be an elite player. His vision is incredible, his ability to make plays at that speed is actually more impressive than the speed itself. There are players who can skate fast but can't do anything with the puck at that speed (Grabner etc) and there are players who can make good plays but can't skate fast. Combine both and you have a playmaking version of Pavel Bure which is McDavid.

Yup. McDavid is awesome. As much as I love Matthews and people love to argue that he's on McDavid's level if I could trade him for McDavid today I'd do it for sure. There's some chance that will change going forward but I don't think it's very likely. McDavid is just too good!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes, we are better... but only marginally IMO.

Better goaltending is the biggest reason we have been holding these leads. Also some luck too.

We hardly ever continue to dominate through the 3rd period when we have the lead. We have gone back to our old style of playing only defense and giving up a ton of shots and scoring chances. Yes, we've been more successful this year, but that's due to goaltending, luck, the small sample size, and the fact that we are actually marginally better. We've also been playing some bad teams lately which has helped.

I don't think playing this way in the 3rd against Tampa will be effective.

Disagree quite strongly. We're on pace for 108 points. Our goaltenders have outplayed the rest of the team as of late but early on, the opposite was true. Looking at the 31 games as a whole, our goaltending has been about as good as the rest of the team IMO, both are top 10 calibre and we're knocking on the door of being top 5.

On pace for 108 points!

 

[Pi]

Yup. McDavid is awesome. As much as I love Matthews and people love to argue that he's on McDavid's level if I could trade him for McDavid today I'd do it for sure. There's some chance that will change going forward but I don't think it's very likely. McDavid is just too good!

I wouldn't trade Matthews for McDavid, I think McDavid is better offensively than Matthews but I feel the way Matthews plays is perfect for the Leafs and is more likely to result in playoff success than the way McDavid plays.

Both dominate the game in different ways. If we had McDavid, I am sure I wouldn't trade him for Matthews either. It's an emotional attachment to a player that that is likely the greatest player the Leafs have ever drafted.

I am certain that the Leafs will win a Cup in the near future with Matthews. Matthews doesn't get to play the rover role that McDavid plays for the Oilers because we actually have depth. We play Matthews with Brown and Hyman at the moment, his PP time is closer to that of a second/third line player because we role ES and PP time equally amongst our top 6-9 players.

IIRC, the difference between Matthews and McDavid was 15 points after 100 games. McDavid had 110 points, Matthews had 95 points. McDavid played 200 more mintues during that time frame and about 25 more PP minutes.

Matthews scores a point roughly ever 18 or so minutes, if he were given the same ice time as McDavid over those 100 games, the point difference would be like 5 points.

I love McDavid and think he's more exciting than Matthews kind of like Ovechkin in his prime was more exciting to watch than Crosby but Crosby did all the little things like deflecting pucks, playing strong along the boards, impossible to knock off the puck etc that went unnoticed but resulted in playoff victories.

You can't go wrong with either players but emotional attachment + game outside of purely scoring would lead me to keeping Matthews over McDavid. There is obviously bias involved on my end. If we got McDavid instead of Matthews, I am sure I'd be saying the things in reverse.

 

[ULF_55]

Disagree quite strongly. We're on pace for 108 points. Our goaltenders have outplayed the rest of the team as of late but early on, the opposite was true. Looking at the 31 games as a whole, our goaltending has been about as good as the rest of the team IMO, both are top 10 calibre and we're knocking on the door of being top 5.

On pace for 108 points!

2nd. star of the month for November kind of indicates who the best Leafs was during November, and that doesn't seem to have changed 1/3 through December.

A healthy Matthews and we might be really impressed with where this team stacks up in the league.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

1st star - McBackup
2nd star- Post
3rd star - Hyman