Lars Eller

[Poulet Kostopoulos]

That is the problem with some fans around here. Eller is not a prospect, he's not developing anything anymore. This is peak Eller. What you see is what you get.

And since we're contending, there's no way the coach should cater to his needs.

Agreed.

This is peak Eller, unfortunately.

For those who complains Eller never got enough opportunities to realize his potential, look at DD, Weise, etc. As a famous general manager once said: don't ask what the team can do for you, but ask what you can do for the team. Eller plays like a 3rd liner, he's gonna stay a 3rd liner. Period. Galchenyuk's gonna keep playing 3rd line minutes as well if he can't do better. (He plays on the PP because he actually has undeniable high-end skills, unlike Eller.)

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Agreed.

This is peak Eller, unfortunately.

For those who complains Eller never got enough opportunities to realize his potential, look at DD. As a famous general manager once said: don't ask what the team can do for you, but ask what you can do for the team. Eller plays like a 3rd liner, he's gonna stay a 3rd liner. Period. Galchenyuk's gonna keep playing 3rd line minutes as well if he can't do better. (He plays on the PP because he actually has undeniable high-end skills, unlike Eller.)

You mean look at the guy who got every possible break regardless of how he was playing vs the guy who can't get offensive minutes no matter what he does?

Yee-eah.

It's great that DD is doing well, but he's also been given every opportunity to do so. Let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[Poulet Kostopoulos]

You mean look at the guy who got every possible break regardless of how he was playing vs the guy who can't get offensive minutes no matter what he does?

Yee-eah.

It's great that DD is doing well, but he's also been given every opportunity to do so. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Look who DD is playing with this season. And yet, he's producing and his linemates too. DD delivers.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Look who DD is playing with this season. And yet, he's producing and his linemates too. DD delivers.

He's done well this year but he's still getting tons of PP time and playing in his natural position. Eller's on the wing with a rotating cast of RWs and is killing penalties. Please don't sit there and try to say that they've been given an equal shake even this year.

Bottom line is that Eller has NEVER been given the opportunity that he should have. He more than earned a shot at it but his coach simply does not believe in the guy.

 

[Milhouse40]

Agreed.

This is peak Eller, unfortunately.

For those who complains Eller never got enough opportunities to realize his potential, look at DD, Weise, etc. As a famous general manager once said: don't ask what the team can do for you, but ask what you can do for the team. Eller plays like a 3rd liner, he's gonna stay a 3rd liner. Period. Galchenyuk's gonna keep playing 3rd line minutes as well if he can't do better. (He plays on the PP because he actually has undeniable high-end skills, unlike Eller.)

You mean look at Therrien's guy, right?

In the last 9 games, Desharnais has 2 points at 5-on-5....so has Weise....so has Eller.
Usually, if you want top 6 minutes A.K.A Powerplay/offensive situations, you have to be good at 5-on-5.

Weise and Desharnais are getting the PP. offensive situations all around and they do quite well with it, no problem.....but without these offensive situations given to them, they aren't better than Eller, well considering 5-on-5 ice-time, they are actually less productive than Eller in the last 9 games.

I would share the opporutinites around a little more if i were Therrien....and play the hot hand. Like last night, our best line were Eller-Galchenyuk - Andrighetto, why not give them a shift together on the PP?

They were good together, why break that for the PP?
Isn't it what everybody are saying? Keep DD's line together because their good.....this should also apply for others. Just like the so-called meritocracy.

 

[MXD]

He's done well this year but he's still getting tons of PP time and playing in his natural position. Eller's on the wing with a rotating cast of RWs and is killing penalties. Please don't sit there and try to say that they've been given an equal shake even this year.

Bottom line is that Eller has NEVER been given the opportunity that he should have. He more than earned a shot at it but his coach simply does not believe in the guy.

Please explain why DD shouldn't be getting PP time... Considering he's got three goals and is apparently and a bit shamefully the 2nd best crease guy on the team at this point. And it's not like he got overloaded with PP icetime either (6th highest average amongst forwards, if TSN got their numbers right, probably 5th in total minutes ahead of Semin). Not to mention -- this powerplay actually works.


I think the worst thing that was done with Eller was to give him a roster spot in 10-11 when he was clearly not ready for Top-9 duties (until the very, very end of the season at least -- I remember him picking up late). Could've used a good chunk of the season on the Top-3 or 6 in the A instead. And there was nothing to justify Eller absolutely starting the season in Montreal (his A numbers were good, but not the kind of good that screams "must play in the NHL").

 

[Poulet Kostopoulos]

He's done well this year but he's still getting tons of PP time and playing in his natural position. Eller's on the wing with a rotating cast of RWs and is killing penalties. Please don't sit there and try to say that they've been given an equal shake even this year.

Bottom line is that Eller has NEVER been given the opportunity that he should have. He more than earned a shot at it but his coach simply does not believe in the guy.

And that's the crux of the disagreement between Eller believers and Eller doubters I guess: One camp thinks Eller showed enough skills and produced enough to get PP time, playing more minutes and playing his natural position, while the other camp believes he has done neither.

Personally, I think both DD and Galchenyuk displayed significant skills advantage over Eller, and that's part of the reason why they get PP time. Also, Eller isn't gonna dislodge DD from center because of DD's results. Galchenyuk getting a shot at center is still experimental; he might end-up like Eller, not playing his natural position but coach will keep sending him on the PP as a PP specialist because of his skills. Galchenyuk has inherently better skills and vision than Eller so perhaps that will win him some patience from the coach for the center experiment.

 

[Poulet Kostopoulos]

You mean look at Therrien's guy, right?

In the last 9 games, Desharnais has 2 points at 5-on-5....so has Weise....so has Eller.
Usually, if you want top 6 minutes A.K.A Powerplay/offensive situations, you have to be good at 5-on-5.

Weise and Desharnais are getting the PP. offensive situations all around and they do quite well with it, no problem.....but without these offensive situations given to them, they aren't better than Eller, well considering 5-on-5 ice-time, they are actually less productive than Eller in the last 9 games.

I'm not sure where this comes from. But to me, PP time is given based on what you can bring to the PP: skills and crease presence. That's why DD and Weise get PP time. Both these guys offer those more than Eller does.

 

[sheed36]

Please explain why DD shouldn't be getting PP time... Considering he's got three goals and is apparently and a bit shamefully the 2nd best crease guy on the team at this point. And it's not like he got overloaded with PP icetime either (6th highest average amongst forwards, if TSN got their numbers right, probably 5th in total minutes ahead of Semin). Not to mention -- this powerplay actually works.


I think the worst thing that was done with Eller was to give him a roster spot in 10-11 when he was clearly not ready for Top-9 duties (until the very, very end of the season at least -- I remember him picking up late). Could've used a good chunk of the season on the Top-3 or 6 in the A instead. And there was nothing to justify Eller absolutely starting the season in Montreal (his A numbers were good, but not the kind of good that screams "must play in the NHL").

That is so true. DD and Gallagher seem to be the only Habs that will consistently park themselves in front of the net looking for rebounds. I wish more of the bigger Habs would do this more often but they just don't.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And that's the crux of the disagreement between Eller believers and Eller doubters I guess: One camp thinks Eller showed enough skills and produced enough to get PP time, playing more minutes and playing his natural position, while the other camp believes he has done neither

The problem isn't whether or not he's got the skills to be a top six center. The problem is we don't KNOW how effective he'd be because he's never been given the chance.

Reasonable people can disagree on how effective he'd be because it's all speculative. What isn't speculative though is that this guy has never been given a real opportunity to show how good he really is. Your suggestion that he "look to DD" as an example is really uh... off the mark. DD has had every advantage whereas Eller has never been given a chance.

That being said, DD has done very, very well this year. Yes, he's still being given mountains of PP time but at least he can say that he's earned it this season. Again though, he STILL came in with a better situation than Eller did. Both had easy minutes this year but Eller never got PP time and Eller's playing on the wing. Again, DD is always put in a situation to succeed and Eller is not. Let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[MXD]

That being said, DD has done very, very well this year. Yes, he's still being given mountains of PP time but at least he can say that he's earned it this season. Again though, he STILL came in with a better situation than Eller did. Both had easy minutes this year but Eller never got PP time and Eller's playing on the wing. Again, DD is always put in a situation to succeed and Eller is not. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Bolded : DD's PP time is like, 5th or 6th amongst forwards, unless I have my numbers wrong. So it's not like he's getting mountains of time.

Underlined : ..Except one of them had definitely easier deployment. And it's not Desharnais.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Bolded : DD's PP time is like, 5th or 6th amongst forwards, unless I have my numbers wrong. So it's not like he's getting mountains of time.

Delete the word "mountains" if you wish. He's still getting PP time and the other guy is used to kill penalties.

And again, I have no issues with it this season. DD has done well and that's why his thread is usually on the 2nd page these days. He's done very well.

Underlined : ..Except one of them had definitely easier deployment. And it's not Desharnais.

Both have had easier minutes this year. Eller due to the fact that he's played with Galchenyuk.

Regardless, these two have never been given the same opportunities.

 

[Brainiac]

Lars Eller has been given a chance to play with highly skilled players, including our most talented center. The result is still the same. On pace for his usual 25 points and a screwed up goals/assists ratio.

At some point, some will have to admit that this is Eller. As good as he's ever gonna be. Saying we 'wasted' his potential is wishful thinking at best.

 

[MXD]

Both have had easier minutes this year. Eller due to the fact that he's played with Galchenyuk.

Regardless, these two have never been given the same opportunities.

Desharnais is actually having the toughest deployment he's ever had, in terms of zonal deployment at the very least. Can't access QualCom numbers, but last time I checked they were surprisingly high too.

 

[Not The One]

You mean look at Therrien's guy, right?

In the last 9 games, Desharnais has 2 points at 5-on-5....so has Weise....so has Eller.
Usually, if you want top 6 minutes A.K.A Powerplay/offensive situations, you have to be good at 5-on-5.

Weise and Desharnais are getting the PP. offensive situations all around and they do quite well with it, no problem.....but without these offensive situations given to them, they aren't better than Eller, well considering 5-on-5 ice-time, they are actually less productive than Eller in the last 9 games.

I would share the opporutinites around a little more if i were Therrien....and play the hot hand. Like last night, our best line were Eller-Galchenyuk - Andrighetto, why not give them a shift together on the PP?

They were good together, why break that for the PP?
Isn't it what everybody are saying? Keep DD's line together because their good.....this should also apply for others. Just like the so-called meritocracy.

Again with the blatantly misleading "stats".

Over the entire season, DD has the 2nd MOST pts at 5 on 5 on the entire team (12) behind Flash.

Eller has less then half those points (5). Meritocracy indeed...

 

[Price is Wright]

I really think they need to split up Eller and Galchenyuk. They both seem to play better separated from each other. I see more scoring sizzle from Eller on the PK and I see better plays made by Galchenyuk on the PP. That tells me they are not working out even strength.

 

[DangerDave]

The problem isn't whether or not he's got the skills to be a top six center. The problem is we don't KNOW how effective he'd be because he's never been given the chance.

Reasonable people can disagree on how effective he'd be because it's all speculative. What isn't speculative though is that this guy has never been given a real opportunity to show how good he really is. Your suggestion that he "look to DD" as an example is really uh... off the mark. DD has had every advantage whereas Eller has never been given a chance.

That being said, DD has done very, very well this year. Yes, he's still being given mountains of PP time but at least he can say that he's earned it this season. Again though, he STILL came in with a better situation than Eller did. Both had easy minutes this year but Eller never got PP time and Eller's playing on the wing. Again, DD is always put in a situation to succeed and Eller is not. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Yes DD has been given some opportunities but he's also earned them. He's proven himself at every level and he was amazing when he got called up to the habs. I think he's earned powerplay time and increased minutes.

But why are we talking about DD when this is the Eller thread. They don't even play the same position anymore.

I don't think Eller has ever really earned top 6 duties or powerplay time. He's just never really shown the creativity needed to be the offensive force on a top 6 center at any level and that's fine if you have wingers that have that offensive flair. Montreal have not had those sorts of wingers since eller has been on the club so you put him on the third since he showed defensive aptitude. That is why DD was favored on the top lines. He was not as good overall but he provided some offensive creativity that was sorely needed. That being said, Eller's been quite effective on the powerplay this year and I'd really like to see more of him instead of patch. I actually like his play on the wing so far. He'd have a lot more points if Chucky could hit the net. Mb will no doubt acquire a quality rw and once he does, Eller will be in as good of a position as anyone on the team to succeed.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Again with the blatantly misleading "stats".

Over the entire season, DD has the 2nd MOST pts at 5 on 5 on the entire team (12) behind Flash.

Eller has less then half those points (5). Meritocracy indeed...

Not to mention, his numbers were incorrect. Taking off special teams(aka looking at ES only) Eller did not have 2 points in last 9 games, he had 1. Desharnais had 3 ES points in that span.

DD's 3 on 3 goal is one of those ESP so we can remove it if need be but Eller still doesn't have 2.

 

[Poulet Kostopoulos]

The problem isn't whether or not he's got the skills to be a top six center. The problem is we don't KNOW how effective he'd be because he's never been given the chance.

Reasonable people can disagree on how effective he'd be because it's all speculative. What isn't speculative though is that this guy has never been given a real opportunity to show how good he really is. Your suggestion that he "look to DD" as an example is really uh... off the mark. DD has had every advantage whereas Eller has never been given a chance.

That being said, DD has done very, very well this year. Yes, he's still being given mountains of PP time but at least he can say that he's earned it this season. Again though, he STILL came in with a better situation than Eller did. Both had easy minutes this year but Eller never got PP time and Eller's playing on the wing. Again, DD is always put in a situation to succeed and Eller is not. Let's not pretend otherwise.

No team will give every player equal opportunity. They cannot afford to. It is based on what skills the player showed on the ice. A Nathan Beaulieu will never get the same amount of opportunity as a PK Subban. So Galchenyuk will likely get more opportunities than Eller. DD has speed and vision, pairing him with Max made sense. DD plays with some "scrubs" and the line plays like a 2nd line. What does Eller have that justifies playing him with the Max Pacs and the Gallaghers? He plays with Galchenyuk, dubbed the "2nd line" but still it can't be considered an "opportunity" for him?

 

[lamp9post]

Again with the blatantly misleading "stats".

Over the entire season, DD has the 2nd MOST pts at 5 on 5 on the entire team (12) behind Flash.

Eller has less then half those points (5). Meritocracy indeed...

Agreed, these arguments with cherry picked stats are getting tired.

I have to question why the sample chosen here was the last 9 games. Oh right, DD had a 3 point night on the 10th game. Can't include that one.

 

[Price is Wright]

I'm curious.

Say Therrien put Lars Eller back at centre but behind Plekanec, Galchenyuk and Desharnais. He gave him the kind of minutes he had been giving Mitchell.

Would you be happy with that?

 

[hototogisu]

In the last 9 games, Desharnais has 2 points at 5-on-5....so has Weise....so has Eller.
Usually, if you want top 6 minutes A.K.A Powerplay/offensive situations, you have to be good at 5-on-5.

Again with the blatantly misleading "stats".

Over the entire season, DD has the 2nd MOST pts at 5 on 5 on the entire team (12) behind Flash.

Eller has less then half those points (5). Meritocracy indeed...

Not to mention, why would you say that "in order to get PP time you need to be good at ES" and completely remove their PP points from the equation? Don't you also need to be good on the PP to stay on the PP?

So if Desharnais is picking up points on the powerplay...then why wouldn't Therrien keep him on the powerplay?

 

[sheed36]

Bolded : DD's PP time is like, 5th or 6th amongst forwards, unless I have my numbers wrong. So it's not like he's getting mountains of time.

Underlined : ..Except one of them had definitely easier deployment. And it's not Desharnais.

You're correct. Numbers from NHL.com

Habs forward leaders in PP TOI/Game

1. Pacioretty 3:06 PP TOI/Game
2. Pleks 2:55 PP TOI/Game
3. Gallagher 2:49 PP TOI/Game
4. Galchenyuk 2:19 PP TOI/Game
5. Semin 2:09 PP TOI/Game
6. Desharnais 2:05 PP TOI/Game
Eller 0:36 PP TOI/Game

I only added Eller to the group because this is the Eller thread so I needed to stay on topic in this thread.

 

[Milhouse40]

I'm not sure where this comes from. But to me, PP time is given based on what you can bring to the PP: skills and crease presence. That's why DD and Weise get PP time. Both these guys offer those more than Eller does.

You can't know what a player can give you on the PP if you never try him there....and this is the case for Eller. Maybe nothing at all, but we can't know for sure.

Again with the blatantly misleading "stats".

Over the entire season, DD has the 2nd MOST pts at 5 on 5 on the entire team (12) behind Flash.

Eller has less then half those points (5). Meritocracy indeed...

Lately....does it mean anything to you....in the last few game.

In the beginning of the season you were all "he deserve ice-time and PP time cause he's playing well" and you were right. You were all "Therrien played the hot hand" and you were right again.

Last night, Galhenyuk's line were the hot hand.
Why not played them on the PP for a shift? Because DD or Weise were the hot hand 10 games ago? That's double standard.

Not to mention, his numbers were incorrect. Taking off special teams(aka looking at ES only) Eller did not have 2 points in last 9 games, he had 1. Desharnais had 3 ES points in that span.

DD's 3 on 3 goal is one of those ESP so we can remove it if need be but Eller still doesn't have 2.

True, Eller have a goal AT 4-ON-5.....and DD at 3-on-3.
In my books, 4-on-5 isn't an offensive situation and even harder to produce than at 5-on-5....and 3-on-3 is mainly only an offensive situation.

Still stand by what i said, DD is doing very well with those offensive situation, but lately he only produce in those offensive situation. No problem

But don't go crap on Eller who never gets those offensive situation, cause lately, if DD wouldn't be getting those situation like Eller, he isn't doing a whole lot more.

Agreed, these arguments with cherry picked stats are getting tired.

I have to question why the sample chosen here was the last 9 games. Oh right, DD had a 3 point night on the 10th game. Can't include that one.

Beause i started with a 5 games streak and added it up from there....i wrote that stats 2 games ago an 4 games ago.... that's mainly why.

Having said that....like i said to another poster.

In the beginning of the season, everybody talking Therrien's giving minutes to those who deserve it in the game.

Not to mention, why would you say that "in order to get PP time you need to be good at ES" and completely remove their PP points from the equation? Don't you also need to be good on the PP to stay on the PP?

So if Desharnais is picking up points on the powerplay...then why wouldn't Therrien keep him on the powerplay?

I also did mention: NO PROBLEM

DD is doing fine this year on the PP...he's producing, don't take him off.....but don't go out and threat Desharnais as he's been awesome lately cause he's been producing on the PP and threat Eller like crap cause he doesn't seems as constant as those getting PP points, cause without their PP time, 3-on-3, EN....lately, not many players are that consistent.

DD is producing at 5-on-5 = Deserve PP time
DD is producing on the PP time = Deserve PP time

Agreed

Just a quick question, Eller scored a goal on the PP against Winnipeg, he got 1:31 of PP time...i got back 4 games and he got 16 seconds in those 4 games.
Why would he got 0:00 PP time in the next 4 games after that goal?

 

[MXD]

Agreed

Just a quick question, Eller scored a goal on the PP against Winnipeg.
Why would he got 0:00 PP time in the next 4 games after that goal?

...Do you remember that goal?